Rise is Cancelled

[The Turtle Terminator]

Here?s a slightly off-topic question. What do you think will go down and be disliked more in the future: Next Mutation, Rise or Out of the Shadows?

[AquaParade]

The fact that they cut the season down from 26 to 13 episodes, combined with what else we've heard from Playmates about Nick working on a new version of TMNT, has me thinking that the new cartoon could be further along then we may have suspected.

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

Here?s a slightly off-topic question. What do you think will go down and be disliked more in the future: Next Mutation, Rise or Out of the Shadows?

I feel the PD films are the most offensive because they had the most potential and brightest spotlight.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

Here?s a slightly off-topic question. What do you think will go down and be disliked more in the future: Next Mutation, Rise or Out of the Shadows?

Most people probably aren't even aware this show existed. Movies always have more mainstream/casual appeal/knowledge, so the Michael Bay movies will definitely always be the most hated.

It's in the same manner that had Venus never existed, and Next Mutation was just the 4 Turtles, most people would probably never remember the show happened. It only ran for 1 season in 1997, the sole thing it's remembered for is the first female Turtle, Venus.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

Here?s a slightly off-topic question. What do you think will go down and be disliked more in the future: Next Mutation, Rise or Out of the Shadows?

Well...

In an objective sense, The Next Mutation is easily the worst one of these. It's over reliant on stock footage, the suits/puppets are not convincing, the editing makes it hard to follow what's going on, there are way too many sound effects and there's no appearent reason as to why they dubbed over the human characters. It really is an unwatchable mess. The thing is though... Have you heard of the 1988 Superman cartoon? Probably not. I suspect that the Next Mutation is sort of in the same boat, short-lived and few noticable fans seem to exist. It is probably forgotten about outside of the TMNT fanbase.

Out of the Shadows is an awful movie. It really deserves the hate it gets and I doubt whatever magic it had to make some fans will be lost on repeated viewings. While more people certainly know about it, I'm not sure the hate will ever be quite as strong as for the Next Mutation as there are still people who like it (for some reason). It's not so much a question about how much people will hate it, as it is how many people hate it.

Rise... When I ignore my own biases of what I like to see and look at how other people react to the show... I don't know?
On one hand: The show has very little to do with what anyone expected from TMNT, a lot of the content is really stupid and it could benefit from more world building, or at least taking things a bit more slowly.
On the other hand: The animation is nice, as it is rather energetic. Characters don't just disappear because the toys just needed one episode to get marketed. The story seems rather free of the "make it up as you go along" factor. And... I must admit... The jokes were actually funny, which is more than I can say about any other iteration that attempted to be funny.

The direction Rise decided to go in with it's world, story and tone is not in any way, shape or form what I think TMNT should be. And I don't think anyone should use it as a primary basis in the future. But... It's not exactly trash. Fred Wolf, Secret of the Ooze, TMNT III, The Next Mutation and the PD movies are trash. Rise is... Like getting a hammer when you ask for a wrench. It's not what I expected, It's not what I needed, It's not what I wanted and it was a waste of time to give me one but it's suited for something else.

Maybe if the approach was applied to something like Plastic Man it would have worked better?

[NinjaPug]

Platinum Dunes...no question.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

I don't want to give myself my own handjob, frankly, even if I'm better at it.

Oh, I do! There's less conversation and you don't have to leave a tip!

Originally Posted by neatoman

The thing is though... Have you heard of the 1988 Superman cartoon? Probably not.

Ruby-Spears "Superman"! It's quite good for what it is, although definitely a product of its time and thus trapped by the limitations of most contemporary cartoons of the era.

Very unfortunate that it didn't have a better run, but it cost a lot of money to make and didn't have a toy line to go along with it, so it didn't get renewed. Very sad. Given its extremely short run of episodes, along with the high licensing fees, it was never replayed at all in syndication, thus most people have never seen or heard of it since every episode only aired twice at the absolute most, and probably not even that. Those who have seen it generally have a very positive opinion of it, although expectations should be adjusted accordingly for a Saturday morning cartoon from 1988, obviously.

A real "hidden gem" of the Superman franchise. I encourage anyone curious to check out the DVD since you can watch the entire series in an afternoon. I'm long overdue for a re-watch, myself... thanks for reminding me!
---------------

I'm torn on the "What's going to be remembered worse?" question, because I do encounter people in real life and online who absolutely swear by the BayTurtles movies. I'm not convinced that they'll be as hated as they deserve to be. I like to think so, and the fact that there's dozens of copies of each in the $5 bin at Walmart right now makes me smile, but I honestly don't know. Some people love 'em.

They tend to fit a "type": Swear they love the FW cartoon but haven't watched it in 30 years. "Secret of the Ooze" was their favorite TMNT movie. Every cartoon since then was "trash". And their favorite thing about the PD films is "It's stupid like TMNT is supposed to be!"

I'm adamant that they shouldn't be allowed to call themselves "fans" - how can you be a fan of something you've ignored for three decades and only like the "bad" versions of?! - but the fact is they do exist. So those movies might go down in history with a better reputation than they deserve. I HOPE not, but we'll see.

[TigerClaw]

The problem with TMNT is there are different universes with the comics, movies, and animated series.

for a new animated show. They can either or. Do a series based on the Seth Rogen animated movie. Or a series based on IDW. One of the biggest issues I have is continuity. Like you watch a TV show and then they make a movie of that show without the same actors.

There was a period where they did Star Trek movies with the casts of the TV shows. and that was good for continuity. Seeing these characters grow throughout the years.

The problem with TMNT right now. and its been like this since the beginning. Was that they didn't stick to the formula of using the same characters from a show or movie. and we end up with a different universe of the TMNT all the time. Every time they rebooted it. They always go back to the beginning about being a teenager rather then see them grow to mature adults. Me as a fan want to see these characters grow along with you.

But they keep messing this up by starting all over again. Its the reason why I like the IDW comics. Its been around since 2011 and all the Turtles are maturing. and I find that more relatable because you can't be teenagers forever.

I feel like they should drop the Teenage from the name and just call it Mutant Ninja Turtles. But they probably have to keep the Teenage in the name due to name recognition.

[Leo656]

You place periods. In strange. Places.

It's not relevant. To the conversation but. It happens so often that it bears mentioning and also. Have a box of commas because those are also. Useful.

[TigerClaw]

I think it does because continuity has been a major issue with TMNT over the years.

Thank god the comics fixes that stuff.

[TigerClaw]

They should start out as teens. But you also have to take into account the passage of time. As the years go by the turtles will age to the point they are young adults.

[Torterra]

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

Here?s a slightly off-topic question. What do you think will go down and be disliked more in the future: Next Mutation, Rise or Out of the Shadows?

Well for me it's a tie between Next Mutation and Out of the Shadows but I would go slightly towards Next Mutation. Say what you want to say about the Bay Turtles at least Out of Shadows sort seem like they were trying this time compare to the first movie. Not to mention they introduced Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang to the Big Screen for the first time ever. Next Mutation I feel like was the worst it introduce Venus a bland character with a origin that makes no sense given this movie is suppose to "loosely" follow after the 1990's movies continuity. At least Out of the Shadows had some good moments in it like the fight on the plane and in the river.

[IndigoErth]

Why you gotta pose impossible questions? lol

The plus of Next Mutation and the PD films are that they existed for a short time. They happened, did their thing, and went away quickly, so outside of the period of discussion before and after, they otherwise could be put away quickly by those who want to pretend they never happened.

A cartoon, even one that just had its second season cut in half, still was "the thing" for TMNT on tv for two years, give or take.

Plus side of Rise and PD, better production value. Down side...they spent some of that money on stupid stuff.

Down side of Next Mutation.... bad production value, and of course also spent it on stupid stuff.

Plus point for NM and PD, the Turtles and Splinter were relatively portrayed as the characters we know and love, design choices aside. Negative for Rise, they weren't.

Negative points for all for going into "wtf is happening" territory.

Time will tell and I'm sure opinion will vary, as usual.

Originally Posted by Leo656

You place periods. In strange. Places.

It's not relevant. To the conversation but. It happens so often that it bears mentioning and also. Have a box of commas because those are also. Useful.

I'm not sure what's worse, oddly placed periods or The People Who Capitalize Every Single Word For Some Unknown Reason.

[Leo656]

I only capitalize the ones that are emphasized. The ones I think are Really Important to the point I'm trying to make.

Some people don't. Like how I do it but it's not as weird. As this.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You place periods. In strange. Places.

Surely he taps into the part of the brain known as Shatner's bosoon!

[Leo656]

You're lucky I already swallowed my beverage before reading that or I'da choked, you Jurassic Slapass.

[Wildcat]

The PD movies will the most hated for the reasons already mentioned. Not just OotS. Both. I did not enjoy them but I agree they do not really deserve it. I can see effort was put into them but they were not well constructed and did not do the FW elements justice.

Oh and FW and Soto are most definitely NOT trash. It is one of best action cartoons of its time and the movie was still quite entertaining even though they went more lighthearted. Super Shredders death made no sense. Thats my only gripe.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Super Shredders death made no sense. Thats my only gripe.

Big Kev gets paid by the minute and he ain't workin' for scale, JACK! When it's time to go home it is time to GO. Plus the bar was probably gonna close soon. So, y'know. "Priorities".

Those punks were lucky he wasn't really tryin', or he'da ripped 'em all a new carapace. For one thing, he's WAY better at martial arts than they are.


If he'd so much as even bothered, he'da done' 'em all like this:


And if he was REALLY pissed... or really drunk... he'da done 'em like THIS...


Point being, those little green bastards only walked away because Big Sexy had better sh*t to do that night. Undisputed Facts.

"Thou Shalt Not F*ck With The Zen Master Of Bar-Jitsu."

[Wildcat]

Well regardless Super Shredder was a big wasted opportunity imo.

I remember you mentioned the cameo pay in that one other thread but if thats all they could afford to have him do they should have gone with a different ending or actor.

Hypothetically speaking, I would pick the 4 turtles over Kevin Nash

[Leo656]

In all seriousness, it was a very small part so they literally only shot his scene in like, 8 hours maximum. I *think* it was over two days but I'm fuzzy on that. Like a Friday/Saturday thing. They only needed a couple of wide shots and a couple of close-ups. Had nothing to do with money, was just, it's a complete "nothing" scene. And as I mentioned elsewhere, they weren't exactly going "all-in" with the camera work, anyway. The whole movie is very "open the lens, get the shot, move on."

They shot that part in an afternoon simply because that's all that the scene required. BUT, that's 100% on the writers for not knowing how the f*ck to end the movie properly. The entire "plot" feels like they were making it up as they went along and completely ran out of ideas after "...And then, Vanilla Ice!" After that, they just "vamped" until the credits. What a waste.

One has to think that if they knew for a fact that a mere three years later he'd be one of the most famous athletes in the world, they would have actually scripted the guy to get some f*cking offense in. Which makes that scene very annoying to watch. Granted, hindsight is everything, but still. They had one of the best "stunt fighters" in the entire entertainment business as the Big Bad of their little movie, didn't even know it, and proceeded to let him do NOTHING. All because they didn't know how to properly script a fight scene. To be fair, ALL the fight scenes in that movie were bad, but that was the worst by default because Nothing Happened.

I have a theory the costumes were fragile, and thus the contact for the entire film was cut down to nothing in order to save money. But still, that's some nonsense. I have no proof of this, but it makes sense to me. Why else are all the fight scenes so barren of actual fighting? Like hardly anybody even hits anybody for the entire movie. Booooo!

For the sake of comparison, let's look at Nash in The Punisher, which came out when he was back in WWE making a million dollars a year and was one of the most sought-after "stunt fighter" actors in Hollywood during that time:


Can you imagine if the Super-Shredder scene was scripted to play out like THAT? It might've redeemed the entire movie!

Notice how he not only gets to fight, but pretty much beats the movie's lead character half to death with his bare hands and only loses by dumb luck. A much better use of resources. Granted, his stock had risen considerably by 2003. But still. It shows what he can bring to a fight scene when the people making the movie know what the f*ck they're doing.

TMNT II isn't one of my favorite movies for many reasons. But they wasted Kevin Nash. He got rich off it, so fine, but still. Guy's an animal. How do you hire him to do a "fight scene" and then not even let him do anything? Morons. Unforgivable.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

For the sake of comparison, let's look at Nash in The Punisher, which came out when he was back in WWE making a million dollars a year and was one of the most sought-after "stunt fighter" actors in Hollywood during that time:
.

Ha, I didn't watch Punisher, but I remember WWE made a mint ticket out of booking an excuse for Kevin's crew cut, losing his locks in a match with Jericho on RAW. He wasn't much longer for WWE after that