Nostalgia is killing the TMNT?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I wish Krang and Shredder showed up regularly and not just between circa 25 October–5 November for the anniversaries.

[The-Shredder]

Originally Posted by D-ray

True, true. I have to pray to get an answer to one of the various 2003 threads, for instance.

It's really unfortunate that the 2003 fanbase isn't very active on the forum, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that most of this generation is more accustomed to platforms like Tumblr, Twitter, and YouTube where you will surprisingly find pages dedicated to the show. It also is (or was) popular on DeviantArt, for better or worse. Recently, it has been getting more love on the official social media pages, even if there's no new merchandise coming out. From what I've seen, the show seems to have a strong fanbase outside the U.S., especially Russia. They even got Back to the Sewer trading cards that we never got in the U.S.

It's easy to be frustrated, but keep in mind that from 1984-2009, TMNT was an independent property that despite Turtlemania in the early 90s didn't have the same pull as those with a larger corporate backing like Batman, Star Wars, or Transformers. That's why it was easier to keep the momentum going when those properties went through dramatic changes with the Tim Burton movies, the Prequel Trilogy, and the Michael Bay movies.

It didn't help that the 2003 cartoon aired on the dubbed anime oriented FoxBox/4Kids TV/CW 4Kids on Saturday mornings, when Kids WB, Cartoon Network, and Nickelodeon were where it was at. The show was briefly on Cartoon Network's Miguzi block with Teen Titans, but it didn't last long. However, it did air on Fox Kids/Jetix outside the U.S., which probably explains why it has a more passionate fanbase there.

If anything, I am mostly concerned about preserving the The Next Mutation episodes as they originally aired on Fox Kids, because the UK and Shout! Factory releases are significantly altered. The show gets a bad rep, but it doesn't deserve to be lost to time. I've never watched the entire show in full before, and I have no idea where to find the originals.

I used to upload 2003 promos and bumpers on YouTube every week and share them here, but I've been dealing with some personal stuff recently that hasn't allowed me to focus on it. Once I'm back in the right headspace, I will continue where I left off.

[HamsterAndTurtleSoup]

Kinda agree with the OP. I tend to find stuff in every iteration to like, and I don't feel that the fandom does itself any favours with its insistence that there is a 'right' and 'wrong' way to do it, or that we should just keep on harking back to the most well-known versions. Especially when there's so much dissent over which version is the 'best' (it's 2003 ).

I do think the core components of TMNT lend themselves well to reimaginings and retailoring for different audiences, to the extent that I think the franchise is a little wasted in the hands of a 'one-version-at-a-time-kids-toy-vehicle' owner. TMNT works well as a kids cartoon. It'd also work well as a gritty adult animation that runs truer to the Mirage comics, something I feel the adult fanbase have been clamouring for in ages. And I'd love to see other independent creators take a crack at it in various guises and 'AU' versions for various audiences, too. It needs a flexible IP owner willing to take a few more risks and be as diverse in its licensed outputs as the fanbase actually is.

Not all turtleverses are gonna be for everyone, but does it matter? There'll always be one for you out there, somewhere!

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

From what I've seen, the show seems to have a strong fanbase outside the U.S., especially Russia.

Omg it's so true! Most of the times I get 2003 TMNT Russian videos in my suggestions for some reasons! And I started to think:"Wait, are Russians actually big fan of this show?"

[D-ray]

I don't want to sound rude, but I think that the 2003 seem to have a solid base on why the show is really good, outside of nostalgia.

To all the 1987 series fans, could you explain to me what makes that show so great for you? Serious question, I'm not bashing.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by D-ray

To all the 1987 series fans, could you explain to me what makes that show so great for you? Serious question, I'm not bashing.

1. Amazing soundtrack

2. Great humour

3. Memorable voice performances for most of the cast which showcase the chemistry in between the characters.

4. Good action scenes at times (for e.g. Season 1, 7 and the Red Sky seasons), and the ability of the show to be heavily comedic while still having real stakes.

5. A fun cast of main and side characters (e.g. The turtles, Shredder, Krang, Leatherhead, Rat King, April, Irma etc.)

6. Interesting concepts Introduced to the tmnt lore such as the Technodrome, rock warriors, neutrinos, Turtle van, Turtle Blimp, Dimension X etc.

7. The flaws (such as animation errors, many terrible looking episodes and voice actor swaps), which are extremely cheesy but add to the shows fun factor.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

1. Amazing soundtrack

2. Great humour

3. Memorable voice performances for most of the cast which showcase the chemistry in between the characters.

4. Good action scenes at times (for e.g. Season 1, 7 and the Red Sky seasons), and the ability of the show to be heavily comedic while still having real stakes.

5. A fun cast of main and side characters (e.g. The turtles, Shredder, Krang, Leatherhead, Rat King, April, Irma etc.)

6. Interesting concepts Introduced to the tmnt lore such as the Technodrome, rock warriors, neutrinos, Turtle van, Turtle Blimp, Dimension X etc.

7. The flaws (such as animation errors, many terrible looking episodes and voice actor swaps), which are extremely cheesy but add to the shows fun factor.

Pretty much why I still kinda like this series, though I prefer the 2003 one.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

1. Amazing soundtrack

2. Great humour

3. Memorable voice performances for most of the cast which showcase the chemistry in between the characters.

4. Good action scenes at times (for e.g. Season 1, 7 and the Red Sky seasons), and the ability of the show to be heavily comedic while still having real stakes.

5. A fun cast of main and side characters (e.g. The turtles, Shredder, Krang, Leatherhead, Rat King, April, Irma etc.)

6. Interesting concepts Introduced to the tmnt lore such as the Technodrome, rock warriors, neutrinos, Turtle van, Turtle Blimp, Dimension X etc.

7. The flaws (such as animation errors, many terrible looking episodes and voice actor swaps), which are extremely cheesy but add to the shows fun factor.

Interesting.
How about the plot? How you guys criticize it?
Yeah I know you said many terrible episodes, but that doesn't seem convicing. Gimme a reason.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by The-Shredder

Star Wars

Wasn't Star Wars almost dead by the early 1990's?

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by D-ray

Interesting.
How about the plot? How you guys criticize it?
Yeah I know you said many terrible episodes, but that doesn't seem convicing. Gimme a reason.

Off the top of my head:

1. Strictly Formula, though to be fair, most cartoons and live-action shows were like that until the mid 2000s.
2. Too many pizza jokes and irritating catchphrases.
3. Too many episodes made.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by Wesley

Off the top of my head:

1. Strictly Formula, though to be fair, most cartoons and live-action shows were like that until the mid 2000s.
2. Too many pizza jokes and irritating catchphrases.
3. Too many episodes made.

Mmmhh, pretty much what I would have said. I noticed a serious amount of "logic" flaws too but, due to the cartoon's nature, I don't think it's relevant.
What about the 2003 series? You, Wesley, said that you like that adamptation more.
Why?

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by D-ray

Mmmhh, pretty much what I would have said. I noticed a serious amount of "logic" flaws too but, due to the cartoon's nature, I don't think it's relevant.
What about the 2003 series? You, Wesley, said that you like that adamptation more.
Why?

I prefer the 2003 series because a) The characters are more complex and interesting b) Great story arcs and standalone episodes c) Good balance of action, drama and humor d) Writing is less kiddish and e) I can watch it no matter what mood I’m in. Have to be in the mood for watching the 1987 series.

[D-ray]

Ok, it looks like I was wrong saying that the 1987 love was only lead by nostalgia, (atleast) for you.
I think that the "civil war" between the two factions is because the shows have a different kind of age target. It's like bashing on Peppa Pig, just because it doesn't have a solid plot or logical explanations on what happens.
Considering what I just said, there can't be a real argument saying which is the best, since they seem like two different things, and so, there is no reason to hate it.
So, to anyone to said it, stop saying that there is HATE on the 1987 series.

The "hate", as people sees it, is more of a will to critique for me, since I think that the the 1987 is not seen in a bad spotlight by me now because "huehuehuehue pizza time, what the hell, childish", no. It's just because it's 70% of the times overrated.

The problem is not the show, is the fandom.
Loving the series is no shame, and reason to be hated, but being too attached to it makes you closeminded. You are not a TMNT fan in this case, you just like one cartoon.
This "closeminded" problem is not only in the 1987 fandom eh, and is not considered that EVERYONE is like that. Even the 2012 and 2003 fandoms have their closeminded members, but being way less than the 1987 ones, they don't come up easily.

It's actually impossible to ask everybody to just not exaggerately stan the 1987 version, but for those who are here (were I think the real TMNT fans are) just try to open yourself on more versions!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by D-ray

I think that the "civil war" between the two factions is because the shows have a different kind of age target.

As far as I know, all three main cartoons (Fred Wolf, 4 Kids and Nickelodeon 2012) had the same main audience target (children aged 6–13 something).

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

As far as I know, all three main cartoons (Fred Wolf, 4 Kids and Nickelodeon 2012) had the same main audience target (children aged 6–13 something).

Technically, yes, all of the three shows were meant to be cartoons for young viewers. But seeing the plots and the concepts behind the stories, I think that they are very different on this point of view.

- Fred Wolf TMNT is extremely pure, it never goes on heavy arguments. Is usually goofy and fun. I heard some people that completely stopped following it reaching the age of 8/9, so I think it was meant for REALLY young viewers.

- 4Kids TMNT is probably the most mature of all. It starts funny and light, but the chracters are way more seriuous, and the stories as well as their meaning can be pretty deep. I can easily watch it, and re-watch it even now that I'm 19 years old.

- Nickelodeon TMNT is in the middle. It tries to emulate the serious and goofy essence of the Fred Wolf and 4Kids adaptations. Yes, it too touches various arguments, but it does it in a very light way (there are some exceptions tho). This version could easily be seen by 10 or more years old kids.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by D-ray

Technically, yes, all of the three shows were meant to be cartoons for young viewers. But seeing the plots and the concepts behind the stories, I think that they are very different on this point of view.

That's another problem. Most attempts to go darker have failed.

The Fred Wolf Cartoon suffered the most from parents complaining over violence during the popularity peak (Seasons 3–7).

Toy companies probably pushed the 4 Kids Cartoon into the sillier Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer direction.

The 2012 Nickelodeon Cartoon went darker as the series progressed, only to end up cancelled and replaced with Rise of the TMNT.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Ocarina of Time probably don't get as much hate on a Zelda fan forum as 87 TMNT gets hate on this forum. Do people even really talk about 87 TMNT that much on here? I don't think so.

Look at the replies to me by Leo656 and neatoman. There's no love towards that series, only saying how rubbish the show is.

Originally Posted by 80gmrp

By the same token, while I’m trying my hardest not to make mention of the drama also going on in this thread, I will say that I see both sides of the issue. While the apparent consensus that most are only familiar with the 87 cartoon is probably true, those who are familiar with the other eras seem to usually care only about what’s current (even if that’s another problem not unique to this franchise). Those skeptical of this observation of mine need only see how inactive the subforums of the 2003 cartoon and especially the 2012 cartoon are, even despite I personally prefer both of them over what’s current.

I have nothing against people liking other iterations of TMNT. That's the difference between me and others here. If I see a thread pop up on the 4Kids series unless I have something to say I care about I avoid the thread as to show respect. No arguments or bashing of TV shows required. Simples.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Some people like bashing and hating more than appreciating.

I know some people also support people who bash and complain about something. Not referencing you but others here. It's quite disturbing.

Originally Posted by D-ray

To all the 1987 series fans, could you explain to me what makes that show so great for you? Serious question, I'm not bashing.

It feeds into my creativity and imagination but does it with good morals and good humour.

Originally Posted by D-ray

I think that the "civil war" between the two factions is because the shows have a different kind of age target.

It's quite simple really: the 4Kids series allows more complex plots but for me the FW series is more enjoyable in animation, humour and plots than the 4Kids series. Doesn't make it better, doesn't make it worse.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by raph27

It just seems like without something major, like a new movie that's actually good/great, most people won't let go of the grip on the 1987 show, or even the image of it.

But isn't that the same with Star Trek? Every time the media mentions Star Trek they think Captain Kirk. It happens with every major franchise, nobody should feel left out, I don't like films or TV shows a lot of people like or hold as valuable. Just me.

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Wasn't Star Wars almost dead by the early 1990's?

Late 80's. In the early 90's Heir to the Empire came out and then all the Star Wars video games so that's where the interest came back.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

The site beginning life as a shrine to the 87 TMNT series has everything to do with that. Although we've had many eras of the franchise since, The Technodrome has never exactly 'evolved' past it's present purpose: To be a community for fans who grew up on the classic series, hence why a vocal minority of purists here get annoyed that conversation doesn't exactly grow beyond the love for that show.

Y'know there's nothing wrong with that. I fully agree we shouldn't just be stuck to talking about the 80's series. Who would want to? Forums should be set up for every TMNT iteration. Ironically the FW series doesn't have a dedicated thread even though the complaints are it gets too much attention but anyway as I said every iteration should get their own spotlight.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

In reference to FW, it's the over-reliance of aspects, easter eggs, materials, and merchandise that leaves me feeling severely fatigued from it. It's not so much the quality of the show but more so people associating the entire brand with just that one version.

[D-ray]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

In reference to FW, it's the over-reliance of aspects, easter eggs, materials, and merchandise that leaves me feeling severely fatigued from it. It's not so much the quality of the show but more so people associating the entire brand with just that one version.

That was the whole point of my thread.