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Old 04-11-2017, 07:23 AM   #81
ToTheNines
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Islam is of satan. Believe in that and you're in trouble anyways. The Jews are Gods chosen people and after the Christians are removed at the Rapture, even the bulk of the Jews will convert to Christianity before the Second Coming.
They probably say the same thing about you. They also have "Jannah" (hell) and "Shaitan" (Satan). Abraham, Jesus and others are in the Quran.

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Which came first, the chicken or the egg? This is fun, because God created both at the same time!
The dinosaurs predate any fowl.

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If you don't believe the Bible 100% then you can call yourself Christian but you aren't.
This is not true, you and I both know that. Even the most hardcore fundamentalists know to call BS on plenty of scripture.

Gouge out your left eye and cast it away if you check out another woman? I sure don't see many Christians with eye patches.

Gay dudes should be put to death? C'mon, now. I'm sure you believe that, but you don't actually go around doing it because you know it's wrong, despite what the Bible says.

Bring 2 turtles to your priest on the 8th day of your menstrual cycle or be stoned to death? That's gotta be the oldest documented case of trolling. One of Cubed's ancestors probably wrote Leviticus.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:28 AM   #82
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Not to mention the fact that a menstruating woman would be sequestered away in her home through the entire duration, save for the turtle sacrifice. (Why turtles???)

I would be screwed in that situation, since my last two have lasted well over three weeks thanks to a fibroid.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:40 AM   #83
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Nowadays you don't need to do animal sacrifices, though. Since according to scripture it's forbidden to do sacrifices outside of the Holy Temple in Jersualem, which is in ruins. And until it's been fixed all sacrifices are on hold.

Unless you're a Samaritan, since they don't prescribe to the Holy Temple rules and still do sacrifices at Mount Gerizim
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:17 AM   #84
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They probably say the same thing about you. They also have "Jannah" (hell) and "Shaitan" (Satan). Abraham, Jesus and others are in the Quran.

They may


This is not true, you and I both know that. Even the most hardcore fundamentalists know to call BS on plenty of scripture.

Gouge out your left eye and cast it away if you check out another woman? I sure don't see many Christians with eye patches.

Gay dudes should be put to death? C'mon, now. I'm sure you believe that, but you don't actually go around doing it because you know it's wrong, despite what the Bible says.

Bring 2 turtles to your priest on the 8th day of your menstrual cycle or be stoned to death? That's gotta be the oldest documented case of trolling. One of Cubed's ancestors probably wrote Leviticus.
Many of these scriptures from Leviticus are under the old covenant, When Jesus came and was crucified He also established a new covenant for His followers. We are not bound to the old, such as not eating meat or other pre-established mandates that were for the Israelites (God's chosen people). The law was put in place to show that the Israelites were unable to save themselves through works, that no matter how hard they tried they were always going to mess up. Thus showing that we are in need of a savior, God himself.

The old testament is written as a historical account of what happened and how things transpired. As in the new testament is written for us today in how we live out our lives as Christ showed us. while many of the scriptures are quoted from the old by the writers of the gospel, they explain how we are to live by these under Jesus new covenant.

The laws were established in three different forms, Gods holy law, social and I forget the other. Such things as not eating raw meat is common sense to us now but had to be forbidden for ancient times for a group of people who just got out of slavery and were now expected to thrive on their own (Through God). So some laws were more for the times, while others were for social awareness (Such as stealing, our common laws).

Animal sacrifices under the gospel are done away with either way, as Jesus was the final sacrifices for all our sins. Which is greatly tied to the old testament and His laws, and why we no longer serve under the old covenant but now under Jesus new covenant.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:23 AM   #85
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Why is Jesus the only way? Just because of some things old people taught you growing up when you were a child? I mean if you weren't raised this way you wouldn't think this right now.

This makes it sound like half the human race is doomed. So Christians hate all non-Christians. Kind of spiteful if you ask me.
Hate non-Christians? Why would be try to go and share the message of eternal life through God's son Jesus Christs then so they can share in the same gift we have been given? Wouldn't it be the other way? Wouldn't we keep it to ourselves, in reality the Israelite should have kept it to themselves and never shared it with the gentile nations under your assumption.

Why is Jesus the only way?

John 14:6 answers this.
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

This was brought up by Peter when he asked, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

As a follower of Christ (Christian) our belief is established in the foundation that Jesus came to reconcile us back to the father (God). Therefor there is no other way, except through Christ himself.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:10 AM   #86
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Because even the kings of the Hebrew people had sooth-sayers and omen-readers as advisors. They fully accepted powers and miracles of the divine/supernatural as real and made use of them.
And did we forget that what 90% of these kings did evil in the eyes of the Lord God?

Again, the old testament is a series of events documented to show the coming of Christ the son. Many of the kings in Chronicles and Kings fully shows the kings of Isreal doing many evil actions and leading the nation of God's chosen people away from Him. They were to only follow one God (Yahweh), but many kings such as the first king, Saul defiled God's law and was punished for it. (Being one of the examples of those that sought out sooth-sayers and such).

But one perfect example would be King Ahab, who married the Baal priestess Jezebel. King Ahab brought in false idols and forced the Israelite to worship the god Baal, so God sent His prophet Elijah to stop the rains and cause a drought across the land. (Baal was the god of rain, lighting ect.)

Just because they engaged in these practices does not mean that it was right. It clearly states these were evil actions and detestable to the Lord.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:53 AM   #87
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Aaaaand you missed the point on that one. Interesting that you only quoted that line from my post as the one immediately preceding it stated that there were errors of translation in many of those very same passages- in fact Moses himself performed many of the same acts as the Pharaoh's court magicians and there are instances in the Bible of Samuel and others having visions and knowing future events. Point is, those were SANCTIONED acts, and the line I referred to esentially would have meant they themselves were condemned for it. But as I said, it was a mistranslation that has unfortunately stuck around. It was originally a word that meant assassin by poison. One letter, and suddenly the entire passage changes.....
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:01 AM   #88
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My apologizes, but yes there are many terrible translations in the English side (I can't speak of other language, except for the original Hebrew). Especially in the NIV that skips whole passages from Jesus himself.

But I was pointing how the part of the Hebrew people sought out soothe sayers (Unless your speaking of God's appointed prophets?) I may be misunderstanding you.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:07 AM   #89
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Many of these scriptures from Leviticus are under the old covenant, When Jesus came and was crucified He also established a new covenant for His followers. We are not bound to the old, such as not eating meat or other pre-established mandates that were for the Israelites (God's chosen people). The law was put in place to show that the Israelites were unable to save themselves through works, that no matter how hard they tried they were always going to mess up. Thus showing that we are in need of a savior, God himself.

The old testament is written as a historical account of what happened and how things transpired. As in the new testament is written for us today in how we live out our lives as Christ showed us. while many of the scriptures are quoted from the old by the writers of the gospel, they explain how we are to live by these under Jesus new covenant.

The laws were established in three different forms, Gods holy law, social and I forget the other. Such things as not eating raw meat is common sense to us now but had to be forbidden for ancient times for a group of people who just got out of slavery and were now expected to thrive on their own (Through God). So some laws were more for the times, while others were for social awareness (Such as stealing, our common laws).

Animal sacrifices under the gospel are done away with either way, as Jesus was the final sacrifices for all our sins. Which is greatly tied to the old testament and His laws, and why we no longer serve under the old covenant but now under Jesus new covenant.
Didn't Jesus himself say he came not to abolish the laws but fufill? It seems to be the opposite for many modern day Christians who take "fufill" to mean that the law has no more power (essentially saying its destroyed), rather than what Jesus defines it as: that anyone who relaxes even a single commandment will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and that people who follow the law less vigorously then the teachers of law (who were very strict) will not even be able to enter heaven. (Mathew 5:17-20).


I don't recall the bible itself ever making distinctions between ceremonial, moral and civil law. It only refers to it as "The Law". To me, it seems these concepts were invented after Jesus because many Christians were ashamed/embarrassed of the Old Testament and/or didn't want to follow the difficult commandments, instead interpreting the Mosaic laws to be universal or only time-specific depending on what suited them and agreed with their existing Moral tendencies,
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:19 AM   #90
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A lot of Christians (probably the majority) believe that when Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he meant ending/abolish it or making new Covenant.

Some think it only applies to non-Jews, Christians don't need to follow the Old Testament law to be with Jesus/God, and some believes what's been abolished only applies to what Jesus said in New Testament such as "you should worry more of what comes out of your mouth then in" means that Kosher rules are no longer needed, but the 10 Commandments are still active.


Whatever they believe, most Christians makes sure they can have bacon and shrimp. And that's probably one of the important part.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:23 AM   #91
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A lot of Christians (probably the majority) believe that when Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law, he meant ending/abolish it or making new Covenant.
That has always puzzled me, considering Jesus said right before he came to fufill "Do not think I have come to abolish the law", yet most Christians as you said interpret fufill to precisely mean what Jesus said it was not.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:47 AM   #92
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Right. I'm not a believer at all, but if we're going to have this discussion and assume that Jesus is real, why cherry pick what stays and goes from the Bible?

I'm pretty sure his sole purpose for coming back is to be here to take everyone to heaven during/after the apocalypse. Would be pretty hard to ignore that lol.

I've never actually watched it, but I dig the concept of Left Behind. Only down side is all the other diests would still be here.



There's no proof of aliens. Not everything you see on Ninja Turtles is real.
There's alien life out there, but not along the lines of TMNT or say, Independence Day.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:53 AM   #93
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I can't read a conversation about Jesus without thinking about this:

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“And then, one Thursday, nearly two thousand years after one man had been nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change, a girl sitting on her own in a small café in Rickmansworth suddenly realized what it was that had been going wrong all this time, and she finally knew how the world could be made a good and happy place. This time it was right, it would work, and no one would have to get nailed to anything.”


― Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
I was raised Christian, but have taken the Militant Agnostic route since then, but sometimes I wonder what the world will be like should the Rapture actually happen.

And just how pissed off all the Holy Roller Christianists are going to be when they find out they're stuck here with folks like me.

And then another part of me wonders: Are we already there?

Deep thoughts, by Plastroncafe.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:55 AM   #94
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What does Jesus think about minorities? Is he there for black people? Latinos? Asians? Indians? Gay people, etc?

This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:06 PM   #95
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Didn't Jesus himself say he came not to abolish the laws but fufill? It seems to be the opposite for many modern day Christians who take "fufill" to mean that the law has no more power (essentially saying its destroyed), rather than what Jesus defines it as: that anyone who relaxes even a single commandment will be called least in the kingdom of heaven and that people who follow the law less vigorously then the teachers of law (who were very strict) will not even be able to enter heaven. (Mathew 5:17-20).


I don't recall the bible itself ever making distinctions between ceremonial, moral and civil law. It only refers to it as "The Law". To me, it seems these concepts were invented after Jesus because many Christians were ashamed/embarrassed of the Old Testament and/or didn't want to follow the difficult commandments, instead interpreting the Mosaic laws to be universal or only time-specific depending on what suited them and agreed with their existing Moral tendencies,

You bring up a good question, as you said Jesus said He came not to abolish the law but fulfill it. I usually point to this article, interesting read that breaks down the original context and meaning.

http://www.egrc.net/articles/directo...ctor_1006.html


Breaking down the law into those three categories is as you said never found in the bible directly, but more or less what can be picked up from studying it. I guess it really depends on who you talk to and their perception on it, obviously someone who holds tight to the law will see it differently then some one who lives under the observation of grace.
Thats how I perceive it, and came to understand why many of those traditions are no longer relevant. I do believe the gospel writers were even in debate about these very things among themselves, which is briefly spoken of in the link I provided.

For example do the Gentiles have to convert to Judaism to become followers of Christ? We of course don't debate that question anymore (Or should we? Most people lack a basic understanding of the scriptures because their lack of knowledge of the old testament, and the customs of the Hebrews. I'm speaking of fellow Christians who have no clue why they do what they do.)

Last edited by Raven; 04-11-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:11 PM   #96
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This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.
Funny fact, but many of the main stream portrayals of Jesus and even angels dates back to the renaissance when the Catholic church was commissioning all those paintings. No where in the bible does it describe angels as babies with wings, in fact their barely described. Except for the cherubim and such others.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:11 PM   #97
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What does Jesus think about minorities? Is he there for black people? Latinos? Asians? Indians? Gay people, etc?

This all seems like the typical white man stuff. Why do you think God is always portrayed as white when people draw him rather than anything else? Hell, why is Jesus even white? Didn't he live in the Middle East? He should have a darker skin tone.
+1 for trying to play the race card.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:14 PM   #98
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I can't quote ToTheNines but someone else did and he made a comment about Jesus coming back and taking EVERYONE (caps from me to specify) except that He is coming back just for those who worship Him. Those who believe He died for their sins. Will some "Christians" be left behind, sure. Some people say they are something, but aren't. The Rapture will remove the Church (Christians) and everyone else will either die or endue up to 7 years of literal hell on earth. For about 3.5 years things will be less hellish but then satan will reveal himself and those still not Saved/converted to Christianity will be forced to take the mark of the beast.

Even if you think I'm full of crap or crazy, read the Left Behind series. Its not perfect and most assuredly not accurate but it does give a Biblical look at what we as humans can only guess at... Or maybe attend Church this Sunday for Easter and listen with an open heart.

Cubed, Jesus doesn't have an issue with "minorities". Anyone who confesses with their mouth that He is their Lord & Savoir will be saved. He does have an issue with sin though.

As far as why most paintings show Jesus as white, I couldn't tell you.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:26 PM   #99
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In a single sentence: Antisemitism during the Renaissance in Europe.
That's why.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:35 PM   #100
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I'm a Christian but I'm believing less and less the older I get. The main thing being that when a serial killer who is also a Christian dies, they get to go to heaven, yet when someone who isn't a Christian hasn't wronged anyone in their life, they burn in Hell. Christianity, to me at least, tell us all the follow one person above all else, listen to him and no one else, God. And God is often depicted as a shepherd herding the sheep that are humanity, but we're not sheep, we're free to do what we want and shouldn't conform to a being who may or may not exist's view of the world, of right and wrong.
Sorry for the rant, there may be a lot of stuff I'm negating, my views may change, but this is what I believe for now.

As for the question, if Jesus had come back to Earth, he wouldn't be believed, no. Not in this day and age.
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