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Old 01-15-2022, 11:38 AM   #361
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I don't really have an issue with Rise... itself, but when you aren't offering anything to older fans, aside from a comic, and this is the main course for the franchise, it becomes much easier to criticize for straying from the normal concept.
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Old 01-15-2022, 11:39 AM   #362
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The showrunners said the show was supposed to last at least 3 years. They were hoping for 5 like the 2012 show got though.
So the intention was 52 to 78 episodes then if it wasn't cut short? And 91-130 if they got five years?

... Not sure how I'd feel about that. At least the show as it is didn't overstay it's welcome like the 2012 show... But it could have used those additional episode better, though I'm not sure...

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I don't really have an issue with Rise... itself, but when you aren't offering anything to older fans, aside from a comic, and this is the main course for the franchise, it becomes much easier to criticize for straying from the normal concept.
Sure but that essentially amounts to "Not muh turtles!". It is unfortunate that this was more or less intended to be the face of the franchise for two years, rather than an experimental side-project like it probably should have been, but I don't think it's fair to criticise the differences from previous iterations simply because there aren't many current alternatives.
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Old 01-15-2022, 04:51 PM   #363
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So the intention was 52 to 78 episodes then if it wasn't cut short? And 91-130 if they got five years?

... Not sure how I'd feel about that. At least the show as it is didn't overstay it's welcome like the 2012 show... But it could have used those additional episode better, though I'm not sure...



Sure but that essentially amounts to "Not muh turtles!". It is unfortunate that this was more or less intended to be the face of the franchise for two years, rather than an experimental side-project like it probably should have been, but I don't think it's fair to criticise the differences from previous iterations simply because there aren't many current alternatives.
Well, not really for me. It’s not so much that it’s different, it’s just sort of unappealing in and of itself to me. But that’s mostly down to it being a children’s show.
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Old 01-16-2022, 12:33 AM   #364
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Well 2022 still no news on the movie, thought once we entered a new year we'd get something but nope dissapointed again.

If this series had been 3 years how exactly would that have work? Didn't they make Leo the official leader when they knew they had been cancelled? I don't want to wait that long for him to be the official leader.
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Old 01-16-2022, 04:42 AM   #365
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Well 2022 still no news on the movie, thought once we entered a new year we'd get something but nope dissapointed again.

If this series had been 3 years how exactly would that have work? Didn't they make Leo the official leader when they knew they had been cancelled? I don't want to wait that long for him to be the official leader.
I'm curious to see how this Leo is as the leader but it's not that big a deal. Even if the movie comes out, it's the only time you're going to see him as such. But there will be other versions where he is the leader.
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Old 01-16-2022, 05:28 AM   #366
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The showrunners said the show was supposed to last at least 3 years. They were hoping for 5 like the 2012 show got though.
I'm sure the people hired to fill those roles would say that.

Poor bastards.
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:03 AM   #367
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So if none of that was true and they knew Rise wasn't going to hit, and it was just "killing time" between the next "real" cartoon, as you've posited...

Where IS the next "real cartoon"? Surely we'd have heard something concrete by now, but we haven't.

No, that doesn't make sense. Not as much sense as, "We were 100% committed to this iteration for the next couple of years, but it failed, and we had no contingency plan so now we're just throwing darts at the wall."

Sherlock Holmes, Occam's Razor, "simplest explanation", etc. etc. etc.
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:26 AM   #368
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So if none of that was true and they knew Rise wasn't going to hit, and it was just "killing time" between the next "real" cartoon, as you've posited...

Where IS the next "real cartoon"? Surely we'd have heard something concrete by now, but we haven't.

No, that doesn't make sense. Not as much sense as, "We were 100% committed to this iteration for the next couple of years, but it failed, and we had no contingency plan so now we're just throwing darts at the wall."

Sherlock Holmes, Occam's Razor, "simplest explanation", etc. etc. etc.
You assume the heads of Nick would immediately have some idea of what and when the next "cartoon" would be as soon as 2012 ended. That'd be a dumb assumption. The "next big cartoon" would be a thing in the air with no concrete anything behind it beyond their wanting and needing to do it. Eventually. But they knew they needed a cool-off. "Rise" can slide into said cool off period as this low cost nothing experiment that probably no one may care about and seems pretty weird and off-brand. But hey, if it pays off? Maybe they don't need to worry about a big cost 2012 replacement in 5+ years. If not? They're out almost nothing. Little money well spent.

If they believed different, do you really think the 3 people on the Technodrome forums who liked the show would still be left wondering where their Rise movie is, now a year or so after the failed cartoon ended?
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:38 AM   #369
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We're still no closer at all to the next "real" cartoon, though, which still undermines that assumption.

I do agree that Nick probably knew going in that "Rise" wouldn't be on par with the Nicktoon in terms of popularity, both due to it being highly-divisive as well as the general nature of diminishing returns. They saw how the movies tanked, they knew the proverbial bloom was off of the TMNT rose by that point. I don't think they expected "Rise" to be comparable to the previous cartoon, I just think they figured it would do a lot better (and last longer) than it did, and that that's what they planned for. When it didn't work out, they went "Well... NOW what?" and still haven't figured it out.

But no, I don't think they expected that a "TMNT by way of Loony Tunes" style of thing would be an overwhelming success and that on some level they knew it would be less "hot" than the previous show. They'd have to be insane to think that MOST TMNT fans would accept such a show. But I still think they had every intention of it being the new status quo for longer than a year, I just think they'd reset their expectations for "success" to a reasonably low bar by then.

Considering the relatively short gap between the Nicktoon and Rise, we have to assume that even when the Nicktoon was winding down, some parts of Rise were already in discussion insofar as "What do we do with the brand next?" Rise was what they came up with. But there is evidence that they at least had some idea of what came next, after the Nicktoon. Conversely, we've had radio silence since "Rise" ended.

To me, that suggests they were completely taken by surprise by HOW badly it did, and they had not yet gotten so far as to be having any discussions, even in theory, about what came next.
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Old 01-16-2022, 09:15 AM   #370
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Go back to the drawing board, and do a FW style show, But making it modern instead of stuck in the 80s.
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Old 01-16-2022, 10:17 AM   #371
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Go back to the drawing board, and do a FW style show, But making it modern instead of stuck in the 80s.
No thanks, that would be an abomination. All that would do is appeal to an aging demographic who can't let go. Copying the Fred Wolf formula would also mean copying it's numerous flaws, meaning you would deliberately make a bad show.

Also, that would not be going back to the drawing board. The Fred Wolf show is itself an adaptation, remember? Going back to the drawing board would be to go back to the Mirage comics and start from there.
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Old 01-16-2022, 11:23 AM   #372
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Andrew, I don't really see any evidence for the fact that this show was a holdover, other then the fact that it fizzled away super quickly.

Is that the angle you are taking? Because then you could assume that about any show that was ever cancelled early on.

Is there some other piece of evidence?
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Old 01-16-2022, 11:56 AM   #373
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Go back to the drawing board, and do a FW style show, But making it modern instead of stuck in the 80s.
Pass. I think a show like Rise was their attempt in a way, but trying to do it "modern" just can end up feeling too forced (imo) and that, personally, is unappealing. It worked for the FW simply because it was a product of its time.

The FW was goofy, but it usually handled it with a straight face. Meanwhile over here you have shows of this era that try too hard to be goofy then basically going "Huh? Huh? Isn't this funny??" No, not really. "Look, I'm throwing a pie at the bad guy to be funny! Haha! Right?! Just like FW did!" No... sorry... FW threw a pie because it was available AND it exploded and everyone acted like that's totally normal...which makes it kinda weird and amusing.
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Old 01-16-2022, 12:57 PM   #374
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I'm really thinking that FW is the only version Tigerclaw enjoys except maybe IDW which has his favorite FW characters.

Neatoman, I can understand your viewpoint of Rise and you make very good points. However, what is it that makes FW a bad show to you while Rise isn't?

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Old 01-16-2022, 02:21 PM   #375
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Go back to the drawing board, and do a FW style show, But making it modern instead of stuck in the 80s.
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I respect what FW cartoon did for the turtles franchise but it is the most overrated and hard to watch of the 3 turtles cartoons.
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Old 01-16-2022, 02:23 PM   #376
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Go back to the drawing board, and do a FW style show, But making it modern instead of stuck in the 80s.
What a horrible thought. But i think they'll absolutely do just that.
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Old 01-16-2022, 03:25 PM   #377
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What a horrible thought. But i think they'll absolutely do just that.
Not at all, Doing this would satisfy fans of all ages, The parents more then likely, But still given how FW Turtles made a comeback thanks to that Nickelodeon fighting game, and that new TMNT brawler, People want more of that then any other version.
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:17 PM   #378
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Not at all, Doing this would satisfy fans of all ages, The parents more then likely, But still given how FW Turtles made a comeback thanks to that Nickelodeon fighting game, and that new TMNT brawler, People want more of that then any other version.
People who only grew up with that version want it.
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:23 PM   #379
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People who only grew up with that version want it.
agreed getting sick of Tigerclaw trying to speak for all TMNT fans with that post
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I respect what FW cartoon did for the turtles franchise but it is the most overrated and hard to watch of the 3 turtles cartoons.
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Old 01-16-2022, 06:24 PM   #380
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People who only grew up with that version want it.
Like it or not, People want it, Maybe not you, But I most certainly want it too.

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agreed getting sick of Tigerclaw trying to speak for all TMNT fans with that post
Funny, Because most of the time when anyone here speaks for TMNT fans, It comes across as very negative and condescending.
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