Questions About Secret of the Ooze Comic Adaptation

PizzaPower1985 · 06-11-2020, 12:16 PM

This is more about what's behind the comic in relation to the film, so I'm posting here but...

IS IT JUST ME or is there a noticeable drop in quality from the first movie's comic adaptation? Forgiving the lighter tone and story elements of TMNT II, why is the comic's quality so different than the first movie adaptation (which was so good that it seemed, to me at least, like it could just be another issue of Mirage).

With Secret of the Ooze, the art (again by Jim Lawson) is markedly... different. Was it a rush job? Or is it the coloring that makes it seem somehow less Mirage-inspired (less awe-inspiring to a pre-teen kid) than the 1st film's comic adaptation? I can't put my finger on why, but I love this movie and the comic just doesn't seem to live up to II's potential.

Was the budget for this adaptation lower or what? It just doesn't seem up to Lawson's standard or up to the standard that the first one set. Thoughts?

*Galactus* · 06-11-2020, 04:31 PM

We were recently discussing Lawson's changing styles in the comic section recently.

I think a big difference is the lack of Eastman and Laird's involvement in the art but even then Lawson at the same time was knocking out things like Sons of the Silent age which was much better than this which is more reminiscent of the TMNT Adventures fill in spots.

I'd imagine it was a combination of a tighter schedule and how he often drew the more 'fun' stories with this simpler style. I suppose the simpler colours also makes a difference, I don't own it myself but the Mirage black and white version has some toning in it which gives the art a bit more depth.

*oldmanwinters* · 06-11-2020, 05:49 PM

The coloring is very rushed. It is better in the prestige edition.

*frank_one* · 06-11-2020, 05:51 PM

Given the lighter tone of the second movie, this adaptation was probably crafted more in the vein of a TMNT Adventures issue than a Mirage one. The art is done to please a younger audience.

*mikey0* · 06-11-2020, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frank_one

Given the lighter tone of the second movie, this adaptation was probably crafted more in the vein of a TMNT Adventures issue than a Mirage one. The art is done to please a younger audience.

This Archie Comics movie adaptation of SOTO was made during the late days of Turtlemania. TMNT merchandise released in 1991 was quite lackluster compared to what fans got in 1989 and 1990.

*neatoman* · 06-12-2020, 04:51 AM

I'm not sure why IDW hasn't reprinted this one yet, they did print the first one.

PizzaPower1985 · 06-12-2020, 07:02 AM

Interesting responses, definitely.

I imagine that it had to be a rush job, given how often a time crunch is involved and how these kinds of adaptations are generally done either from seeing a workprint of a film or from early script drafts.

I just recently re-read this again and from Page 2 was struck by how different it was from the first film's comic (which, in MY estimation, is one of the best TMNT comics ever published).

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 06-12-2020, 08:52 AM

The comic adaptation should have included the original script, with TCRI and Utroms.

*Galactus* · 06-12-2020, 03:21 PM

^^^

Is that really a thing though. As far as I know the reveal of Prof. Perry being an Utrom is just a fan made myth unless someone can cite a source for this?

The Turtle Terminator · 06-12-2020, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galactus

^^^

Is that really a thing though. As far as I know the reveal of Prof. Perry being an Utrom is just a fan made myth unless someone can cite a source for this?

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/..._Harvest/Imagi)

[QUOTE] Also important to note, the character was originally conceived as an Utrom. This was to be revealed as a cliffhanger or twist ending, but was nixed due to worries that the audience would mistakenly identify the Utrom as Krang [QUOTE]

There was also a comment from Laird on his blog about it apparently

sgtfbomb · 06-13-2020, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Turtle Terminator

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/..._Harvest/Imagi)

Also important to note, the character was originally conceived as an Utrom. This was to be revealed as a cliffhanger or twist ending, but was nixed due to worries that the audience would mistakenly identify the Utrom as Krang

There was also a comment from Laird on his blog about it apparently

A fan wiki isn't exactly a concrete source. If someone could find Laird's quote on the matter, that would be something.

d_osborn · 06-13-2020, 01:49 PM

There were a discussion in an early story meeting that TGRI had an alien origin. As far as I know, that's as far as it ever got.

The Turtle Terminator · 06-13-2020, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

A fan wiki isn't exactly a concrete source. If someone could find Laird's quote on the matter, that would be something.

It’s in the comment section

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....econd.html?m=1

*Galactus* · 06-13-2020, 04:28 PM

Quote:

My recollection is that the Utrom connection WAS in the movie, and that there was a brief scene near the end of the movie when Prof. Perry lifts up his shirt and reveals the Utrom within. I think I heard that it was actually filmed, but I've never seen it, so can't verify that. I think it would have been very cool to have that in the second movie, as it could have set up a rollicking sci-fi adventure for the third live-action movie.

But instead, they went with stupid crap like the scene in the disco, and "Super Shredder" with his mysteriously mutating ARMOR (what the heck was up with THAT??!!!), among others, wasting a lot of time which could have been spent building a better story and setting up the third movie. -- PL

Well that's good enough for me. I stand corrected

sgtfbomb · 06-14-2020, 02:38 PM

That at least confirms the concept was considered. Laird's wording stills allows air for doubt whether or not it was actually filmed. ("I think I head" = hearsay. "I haven't seen it, so I can't verify that" = he doesn't know.)

Has anyone asked Michael Pressman or Mak Wilson (the chief puppeteer on the film)? Brian Henson also might know, even though he wasn't really involved in SOTO's production.

In theory, it should appear in the shooting draft.

Also, as they were produced while the movies were typically filming, comic adaptions and junior novelizations of that era typically went off screenplays, which often made them treasure troves for deleted scenes and abandoned concepts.

The Turtle Terminator · 06-14-2020, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgtfbomb

That at least confirms the concept was considered. Laird's wording stills allows air for doubt whether or not it was actually filmed. ("I think I head" = hearsay. "I haven't seen it, so I can't verify that" = he doesn't know.)

Has anyone asked Michael Pressman or Mak Wilson (the chief puppeteer on the film)? Brian Henson also might know, even though he wasn't really involved in SOTO's production.

In theory, it should appear in the shooting draft.

Also, as they were produced while the movies were typically filming, comic adaptions and junior novelizations of that era typically went off screenplays, which often made them treasure troves for deleted scenes and abandoned concepts.

I think there is a good chance that this will all be in the Turtle Power 2 film when (if) it gets released

d_osborn · 06-14-2020, 03:58 PM

It absolutely would have appeared in the the shooting script and storyboards. Effects companies didn't go around willy nilly adding sequences or creatures. There was a whole creative and administrative pipeline for that stuff that would've been in place prior to filming. Especially considering the scene in question involved in-camera creature FX.

Here are Peter Laird's comments on the subject, transcribed from his notes to the producers after viewing dailies in late 1990. SOTO was way more fresh in his mind than the earlier blog post comment.

Quote:

Also, if we accept the backstory (as worked out in conference with me, David Chan, Tom Gray, Kevin Eastman, and Todd Langen) that TGRI is actually a cover company run by aliens stranded on earth who are using their advanced knowledge to try to build-- out of current terrestrial technology-- a matter transporter to get them back to their home planet, then it seems to stand to reason that their lab would have a bit more sophistication and "alienness" to it.

The first draft "Shellquel" script hasn't surfaced, so it's possible the alien/TGRI backstory was more fleshed out in it. Casey Jones was also in that particular script, so quite a bit was obviously cut out through pre-production.

sgtfbomb · 06-14-2020, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_osborn

It absolutely would have appeared in the the shooting script and storyboards. Effects companies didn't go around willy nilly adding sequences or creatures.

Exactly what I was trying to imply. The only reason I said "In theory.." was because I've personally never read the shooting draft. But I'm fairly certain it is available on scriptfly, so I figured someone here has.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 06-15-2020, 02:36 AM

I think Jordan Perry himself could have been Human, working together with Utroms inside the TCRI building.

*Galactus* · 06-15-2020, 06:51 AM

I'd long been skeptical of the rumours that Jordan Perry was an Utrom by virtue of the fact that the movie plays down any kind of extra terrestrial connection to the ooze right down to renaming the company he works for as Techno Global Research Institute.

It does suggest there is more to TGRI's experiments but it's soon dropped and the "mysterious disappearance of TGRI" which is tacked on at the end seems more like it is trying to close the book on the story as opposed to set up a sequel. That generally wasn't done in movies of it's type in the era.

Also I'm very skeptical whether a more sci fi based sequel would have worked. The general vibe of the first two Golden Harvest movies is that other the wacky nature of the central characters the existed in a realistic world, taking them to another planet or having an alien invasion of some sort may break that even more than the time travel in the third movie we actually got. Plus even if they'd gotten Henson coming up with believable Utroms and possibly Triceratons may have been a way more ambitious task than they'd be capable of in the 90s or afford given the budget they have to work with.

Still given these comments there was way more discussion on an Utrom connection to the ooze than I'd have ever thought and I'd be interested in being proved wrong on this issue.

06-11-2020, 12:16 PM	#1
PizzaPower1985 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: United States Posts: 947	Questions About Secret of the Ooze Comic Adaptation This is more about what's behind the comic in relation to the film, so I'm posting here but... IS IT JUST ME or is there a noticeable drop in quality from the first movie's comic adaptation? Forgiving the lighter tone and story elements of TMNT II, why is the comic's quality so different than the first movie adaptation (which was so good that it seemed, to me at least, like it could just be another issue of Mirage). With Secret of the Ooze, the art (again by Jim Lawson) is markedly... different. Was it a rush job? Or is it the coloring that makes it seem somehow less Mirage-inspired (less awe-inspiring to a pre-teen kid) than the 1st film's comic adaptation? I can't put my finger on why, but I love this movie and the comic just doesn't seem to live up to II's potential. Was the budget for this adaptation lower or what? It just doesn't seem up to Lawson's standard or up to the standard that the first one set. Thoughts? Last edited by PizzaPower1985; 06-11-2020 at 12:24 PM.

06-11-2020, 05:49 PM	#3
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 14,920	The coloring is very rushed. It is better in the prestige edition. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

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06-11-2020, 04:31 PM	#2
Galactus Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,949	We were recently discussing Lawson's changing styles in the comic section recently. I think a big difference is the lack of Eastman and Laird's involvement in the art but even then Lawson at the same time was knocking out things like Sons of the Silent age which was much better than this which is more reminiscent of the TMNT Adventures fill in spots. I'd imagine it was a combination of a tighter schedule and how he often drew the more 'fun' stories with this simpler style. I suppose the simpler colours also makes a difference, I don't own it myself but the Mirage black and white version has some toning in it which gives the art a bit more depth.

06-11-2020, 05:51 PM	#4
frank_one Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Southern Europe Posts: 1,983	Given the lighter tone of the second movie, this adaptation was probably crafted more in the vein of a TMNT Adventures issue than a Mirage one. The art is done to please a younger audience.

06-12-2020, 07:02 AM	#7
PizzaPower1985 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: United States Posts: 947	Interesting responses, definitely. I imagine that it had to be a rush job, given how often a time crunch is involved and how these kinds of adaptations are generally done either from seeing a workprint of a film or from early script drafts. I just recently re-read this again and from Page 2 was struck by how different it was from the first film's comic (which, in MY estimation, is one of the best TMNT comics ever published).

06-12-2020, 08:52 AM	#8
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,154	The comic adaptation should have included the original script, with TCRI and Utroms.

06-12-2020, 03:21 PM	#9
Galactus Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,949	^^^ Is that really a thing though. As far as I know the reveal of Prof. Perry being an Utrom is just a fan made myth unless someone can cite a source for this?

06-13-2020, 01:49 PM	#12
d_osborn Mad Scientist Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,338	There were a discussion in an early story meeting that TGRI had an alien origin. As far as I know, that's as far as it ever got.

06-14-2020, 02:38 PM	#15
sgtfbomb Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Internet Posts: 830	That at least confirms the concept was considered. Laird's wording stills allows air for doubt whether or not it was actually filmed. ("I think I head" = hearsay. "I haven't seen it, so I can't verify that" = he doesn't know.) Has anyone asked Michael Pressman or Mak Wilson (the chief puppeteer on the film)? Brian Henson also might know, even though he wasn't really involved in SOTO's production. In theory, it should appear in the shooting draft. Also, as they were produced while the movies were typically filming, comic adaptions and junior novelizations of that era typically went off screenplays, which often made them treasure troves for deleted scenes and abandoned concepts.

06-15-2020, 02:36 AM	#19
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,154	I think Jordan Perry himself could have been Human, working together with Utroms inside the TCRI building.

06-15-2020, 06:51 AM	#20
Galactus Foot Elite Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,949	I'd long been skeptical of the rumours that Jordan Perry was an Utrom by virtue of the fact that the movie plays down any kind of extra terrestrial connection to the ooze right down to renaming the company he works for as Techno Global Research Institute. It does suggest there is more to TGRI's experiments but it's soon dropped and the "mysterious disappearance of TGRI" which is tacked on at the end seems more like it is trying to close the book on the story as opposed to set up a sequel. That generally wasn't done in movies of it's type in the era. Also I'm very skeptical whether a more sci fi based sequel would have worked. The general vibe of the first two Golden Harvest movies is that other the wacky nature of the central characters the existed in a realistic world, taking them to another planet or having an alien invasion of some sort may break that even more than the time travel in the third movie we actually got. Plus even if they'd gotten Henson coming up with believable Utroms and possibly Triceratons may have been a way more ambitious task than they'd be capable of in the 90s or afford given the budget they have to work with. Still given these comments there was way more discussion on an Utrom connection to the ooze than I'd have ever thought and I'd be interested in being proved wrong on this issue.