Do you think the 1990 film will ever be equalled (or surprassed) in the future?

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by THGhost

I've read this sentence numerous times and I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Maybe the wording is odd or it's just me.

If you mean an animated TMNT film based on the PD films, no. God no. An animated TMNT film in its own timeline released maybe a few years from now.

I'm all for an animated film based on the IDW comics.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I've been wanting this for years! It'd be a miracle!



The 1990 movie? The movie, aside from the turtles and Splinter, didn't really have any of the following that Nolan excluded from his trilogy. I think if he were to watch the film and try to do his own attempt while trying to exclude the flaws it had as well as the FW elements, we could have a pretty well done film. All it really takes is to show a director or writer the original film and hopefully will inspire them to take a crack at it.

I kinda think someone Nolan-ish would do a good job. Nolan Batman is NOT Batman. Tons of changes were made to make things more realistic, but as movies, they were great movies and gave Batman more cred with adults beyond just being some cartoon character.

Likewise, someone can take some of the goofy crap out of the Turtles, add more grit and realism here and there, I mean, they're fighting a ninja clan in modern day, that's nothing to laugh at. A Nolan-ish TMNT movie might be TMNT, but they will be great movies that will open the eyes of the general masses to make them realize that TMNT is more than kid's stuff. They'll have people flipping out over who will portray the Shredder or the Rat King just like everyone was buzzing about how good or bad Heath was going to portray the Joker.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

You mean that followed the animated TMNT before them that flopped? Won't happen.

Originally Posted by THGhost

I've read this sentence numerous times and I'm still not quite sure what you mean. Maybe the wording is odd or it's just me.

I'm talking about TMNT 2007, the animated movie. That's 3 movies ago. It failed to find an audience and I don't see them trying that again.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm talking about TMNT 2007, the animated movie. That's 3 movies ago. It failed to find an audience and I don't see them trying that again.

I'm talking about an animated TMNT movie that's completely separate from the recent movies though, not some quasi-sequel. And one that's actually good too and takes inspiration from Mirage/IDW.

I like your thinking, Coola Yagami.

[Coola Yagami]

Come to think of it.... many people felt The Dark Knight played out more like a realistic crime drama. It was literally so realistic that the only silly thing was the guy running around in a batsuit. That's.... kinda how a Ninja Turtles movie should play out. Have Shredder run the city with an iron grip with deadly ninjas and have nothing be too outlandish besides the Turtles, Splinter and Shredder themselves.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Come to think of it.... many people felt The Dark Knight played out more like a realistic crime drama. It was literally so realistic that the only silly thing was the guy running around in a batsuit. That's.... kinda how a Ninja Turtles movie should play out. Have Shredder run the city with an iron grip with deadly ninjas and have nothing be too outlandish besides the Turtles, Splinter and Shredder themselves.

Agreed. The most ridiculous things in a really good TMNT story should be the TMNT themselves.

Which isn't to say they can't go into outer space sometimes, or fight a magical monster, or travel through time... but those should be the garnishments, not the meal.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

The most ridiculous things in a really good TMNT story should be the TMNT themselves.

Which isn't to say they can't go into outer space sometimes, or fight a magical monster, or travel through time... but those should be the garnishments, not the meal.

While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while. I'm all for coming up with some original ideas for adventures, but what else is there that they can encounter besides common criminals, aliens and other mutants?

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Jephael

While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while. I'm all for coming up with some original ideas for adventures, but what else is there that they can encounter besides common criminals, aliens and other mutants?

We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part. Save the rat king, baxter, bishop and the Triceratons for sequels. The problem is to make the FIRST movie good so that it can warrant a sequel. In fact if you want different, throw in Baxter and have Shredder make him send the mousers after them. We've never seen mousers in a movie yet and it opens the door just enough so that Utroms and Triceratons don't seem way too outlandish in sequels.

Hell, end the first movie with splinter being missing after the turtles defeated shredder, which leads into the sequel about TCRI, Utroms and the Triceratons.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part.

I kinda would like to see a story where Shredder himself forms the Foot Clan in modern day New York City after killing Hamato Yoshi and Teng Shen, but then we'd need an explanation as to how they learned their martial arts skills to begin with.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

We've never seen a serious and deadly foot clan yet. In a way, it would be new to see them as threatening as The Hand in the Daredevil series, especially since they're based on them.

The thing is, we need a new movie series that does it right. The first story should deal with the foot, the foot are tied to their origins, at least the splinter/shredder part. Save the rat king, baxter, bishop and the Triceratons for sequels. The problem is to make the FIRST movie good so that it can warrant a sequel. In fact if you want different, throw in Baxter and have Shredder make him send the mousers after them. We've never seen mousers in a movie yet and it opens the door just enough so that Utroms and Triceratons don't seem way too outlandish in sequels.

Hell, end the first movie with splinter being missing after the turtles defeated shredder, which leads into the sequel about TCRI, Utroms and the Triceratons.

So basically adapt Mirage/2K3 into a faithful movie. I'm all for that. And have April work for Baxter instead of being a reporter every single time.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Jephael

While I kinda do agree with that statement to an extent, I do feel like just having the Ninja Turtles face the Foot Clan time and time again would get just as tedious and repetitive after a while.

Who said anything about the Foot Clan time and time again? A good TMNT universe doesn't just need to recycle the same crap from everything else over and over again (like they're doing now). There can be mafia, human trafficking rings, a Chinese triad, blah blah blah, you name it.

It's called "coming up with new sh*t." TPTB ought to try that sometime.

[Donnie]

The 1990 Movie is untouchable. For me, it's the closest we'll get to TMNT, as they were meant to be and appear to audiences.

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.

I'll stick to the 1990 film and enjoy it for what it is.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Donnie

The 1990 Movie is untouchable. For me, it's the closest we'll get to TMNT, as they were meant to be and appear to audiences.

I don't know about that last part, but it's certainly the closest studios have ever cared to bring TMNT to something that isn't horrible.

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.

lol... I've... never thought of it that way. I'm not saying you're wrong. I can't even weigh in on the past couple of years of IDW. I just sort of buy them and don't read them. What I've read I would call very well written but fundamentally flawed at a concept level. Still, it has an audience so I'm glad that people enjoy it.

[Jephael]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

A good TMNT universe doesn't just need to recycle the same crap from everything else over and over again (like they're doing now). There can be mafia, human trafficking rings, a Chinese triad, blah blah blah, you name it.

It's called "coming up with new sh*t." TPTB ought to try that sometime.

For once we're on the same page. I'd love to see the Purple Dragons (or some analog of them) have a bigger place in the spotlight down the road. I mean heck, the very first issue began with the TMNT fighting them.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by THGhost

Because...

...this is why.

I'm referring to the people who grew up with the 80s cartoon. It's a generation thing. Of course the Nick or 4Kids series is going to pass them by. For most people it's what Turtles you were raised with determines their nostalgia in years to come.

Originally Posted by RaphaelinSTL

It's probably why when I was little I was enthralled with Batman Forever so much considering how it upped the action so much...but it's such a bad movie compared to the first two.

It's a hell of a lot better than Batman Returns.

Originally Posted by Donnie

I wouldn't want a new film representing anything close to IDW's Turtles. IDW Donatello is abrasive, unlikable, and argumentative for argument's sake. He is such a far cry from past Donatello incarnations, it is sad. I don't understand why everyone has such a boner over IDW. The story lines are sub-par at best, it is a complete amalgam of TMNT Universes with every character under the sun, all mushed into one super ball of mainly nonsense. It's like play-dough--you know, when you mix all of the colors together--you end up with a sh*t colored mess in which all of the colors are ruined.

Yikes, and netoman is constantly on me for thinking I don't 'get' the Turtles. Sounds like fun!

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I know he wouldn't... but can you imagine a Christopher Nolan TMNT movie?

I don't know if we totally want to go in that direction. The Nolan Batman films have a huge audience but it's fair to say Nolan sucked all the fun out of the character. I personally find those films really boring, not bad films, just boring considering the source material. If Nolan did direct a TMNT movie it may not be the film we wanted but it may be the one we deserved.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by pferreira

It's a hell of a lot better than Batman Returns.

Hopefully, I don't seem like a jerk, but my opinion greatly differs.

It might have been better than Batman Returns had the original intentions survived the final cut, but they cut out of most of the psychological story, including an awesome symbolic sequence involving a large bat, and then re-arranged the scenes to bring the action to the start. Not that the action scenes were any good. They were like 90s versions of Adam West's fight scenes. They nerfed the bad guys a little, including a moment where the Riddler actually seems like a dangerous threat. It was an extension of the "I wanna learn how to hit a guy" scene, where he gets out of control. What is used of the scene is played for laughs. And, of course, they even gave the film a painfully annoying, painfully repetitive score, which amplified the camp factor even higher to "I just wanna puke" levels. (Sorry, that is the best way I could describe that score )

Granted, after the McDonalds crisis and because the film didn't have the financial success of the 1989 film, WB went into panic mode, so instead of looking at what made the first film so popular, they wanted the complete opposite of Batman Returns. And it seemed to work. Batman Forever was popular, though. And I do get a little enjoyment out of it, but personally, I wish Burton, Keaton, and Elfman had stuck with the series.

I like Batman Returns. I don't think it's better than Batman '89, but, I do like it.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I consider both of the Schumacker Batman films to be garbage (and I LOVE Batman Returns), but everyone has every right to disagree with me on that.

I will say that we got a good R-Zone game out of Batman Forever, though. And, I'm kind of intrigued by the Batman film Schumacher wanted to make before WB gave the series the axe, "Batman Triumphant". It was supposed to be his "apology" film for Batman and Robin.

[Andrew NDB]

Forever is only nominally less abortive than B&R. Then and now.

[sgtfbomb]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Forever is only nominally less abortive than B&R. Then and now.

It started out with good intentions of telling a Bruce Wayne-oriented story.

The movie originally opened up with a gothic scene where Two-Face has escaped Arkham, leaving a dead guard dangling by rope and the words "The Bat Must Die" written in blood. Then it cut to the scene where Bruce Wayne meets Edward Nigma and leaves seeing the bat signal (notice that you hear sirens). In the theatrical cut, the signal was just a hoax from Dr. Chase to lure in Batman for her weird fetish with him. As originally filmed and intended, the signal was for the bank robbery scene which was moved to the front of the film.

The scene with Dr. Chase originally took place after the circus scene, and her lines were over-dubbed.

Also, watching the film, one must wonder why Batman allows the Riddler and Two Face to go on a crazy crime spree. Well, originally we were to find out that Nigma had hacked the tracking device on the Batmobile, sending him to the wrong locations. A scene shows up in the deleted scenes, where with no explanation, he enters a heists only to find a bunch of beauticians. It's horrible, mostly because of one of the comments -- "A little off the top Batman?" -- and their laughter. However, a good editor would cut around that, and end the scene with the confusion but no dialogue.

During one of the heists, The Riddler facetiously asks Two Face to teach him how to punch a guy. The Riddler punches and his hand hurts. The scene ends there in the film, for a laugh. But, as filmed, it continued and Nigma either beats the guy to death or near-death.

Throughout the film, there are scenes of Bruce at his parent's funeral. They only serve a small part in the theatrical cut, but were originally the heart and soul of the film. Bruce was to feel responsible for his parent's murder because he wanted to see a movie.

Later, in the theatrical cut, Two Face shoots Bruce. The bullet grazes the side of his head and he lands unconscious. Moments pass and he wakes up. Alfred says something like "the boy is missing, Chase has been kidnapped, and the bat cave has been destroyed." You can somewhat notice a look of confusion on Bruce's face before the film cuts ahead. Well, he had temporarily lost his memory. So Alfred takes him to the Bat Cave and shows him a dark path, which leads him to hole he fell through as a child. There he finds his father's red diary, where his father mentions that he too had wanted to go to the movies or something like that. Bruce, gaining parts of his memory back, realizes it wasn't his fault.

He sees a bat coming his way. Suddenly, a human-sized bat appears before him. They both spread their arms out as the shot pans around them. Not only does his full memory come back -- which, yes, is a bit of tiny sidetrack -- but his entire identity crisis (that he has all throughout the theatrical cut -- "Should I be Batman? Should I not be Batman?) is resolved. He is Batman forever. Hence the title....

The movie would then continue as it was, with Bruce and Alfred solving the riddles and the final climactic fight.

There were a few other trims, like Riddler being even more creepy around Dr. Chase when he has her hostage, the building of the island, and an alternate final shot where we see Batman and Robin on top of a gargoyle looking down on the city, just like Batman '89's ending.

WB came close to doing a director's cut for the 2005 special edition DVD, but ultimately decided not to do it and released *some* of the footage, lacking some of the context. Of course, some of my other issues with the film would still exist, like the score and the circus like red and green lights that light up Gotham City.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by pferreira

I'm referring to the people who grew up with the 80s cartoon. It's a generation thing. Of course the Nick or 4Kids series is going to pass them by. For most people it's what Turtles you were raised with determines their nostalgia in years to come.

Those shows are more than successful enough for people who grew up with the 80s cartoon to have heard of them though.