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Old 01-03-2013, 10:17 PM   #1
Venom
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MCRG: #12 - The Survivalists

Peter Laird's first solo Turtle book! An issue where people finally got an idea of how Peter held up on his own.

Personally, I've always enjoyed his more thoughtful style and richly detailed artwork, but by his own admission he is slow, so seeing a whole issue solely created by Pete is a rare treat to behold.

Let us move forward with discussion about this awesome book!
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:27 PM   #2
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One thing I like is how the message of nuclear war (and a nutjob terrorist willing to use it), is still relevant today. At the end of the issue Donatello says something like, "In a world of constant danger of nuclear threats and extremists, who doesn't want to survive?"

It amazes me how something written back in the late 80's is still relevant today 20+ years later. The threat of nuclear weapons, terrorists, and people willing to kill themselves for a cause has never subsided.

I also like the "Time heals old wounds...right?" message at the end, as the Turtles had just escaped NYC after Shredder burned down April's store and nearly killed Leonardo.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:22 AM   #3
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One thing I like is how the message of nuclear war (and a nutjob terrorist willing to use it), is still relevant today. At the end of the issue Donatello says something like, "In a world of constant danger of nuclear threats and extremists, who doesn't want to survive?"

It amazes me how something written back in the late 80's is still relevant today 20+ years later. The threat of nuclear weapons, terrorists, and people willing to kill themselves for a cause has never subsided.

I also like the "Time heals old wounds...right?" message at the end, as the Turtles had just escaped NYC after Shredder burned down April's store and nearly killed Leonardo.
That's just the thing: You can't uninvent a weapon. Even if every nuke ever made was safely dismantled, laws were placed against it, and every known copy of info on them were destroyed, something would be missed, or someone would have enough knowledge of them to recreate the missing gaps.

It is rather nice when a story remains somewhat relevant, and we can say this story is one thanks to that fact.

I really like how different this felt. Eastman/Laird together always felt best for me (thus far), but this issue was a nice change of pace after the last few issues, and got us to explore their new home a little. Our villain is no Shredder, but is certainly one we're more likely to see somewhere (with or without a weapon, of course).

I think the best advantage of this issue (and the coming ones) is we first start to see what differs Eastman from Laird (both in writing and in art). Learning how they work separately really does give us insight into what pieces of the whole they make when they work together are from each member of the team.

Was this the kind of story you guys expected following their arrival into Northampton?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:03 AM   #4
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Just looking at the art, #12 is a bizarre juxtaposition of everything that's good and bad about Laird's solo art.

If you've skimmed through his Blast from the Past entries, its evident that he has a major background in drawing stuff like still lifes and so on; he's very well trained in that sense. The environments in "Survivalists" look drop dead amazing; he's practically on the same level as Zulli when it comes to rendering beautiful landscapes. And #15 is a great example of Laird's superb ability to draw architecture, but we're not discussing that story yet.

On the other hand... Laird draws some ugly people. Some uuuuuugly people. He overdoes it on the lines and as a result, Casey and April and all his humans end up looking warped and wrinkled. In the Eastman/Laird collaborative issues, you could usually tell when a human character had more of an Eastman or a Laird influence in the pencilwork, as Eastman used less lines of detail, at least in the faces. It's especially evident in their renditions of April (Laird's is much less cute).

Laird's rendering of humans isn't quite so distracting in #15, when he's drawing nothing but geriatrics, but when he's supposed to be rendering a bunch of 20-somethings like in #14, they come off looking withered and freakish.

Less is more, sometimes, at least when drawing people. As a self-professed admirer of Jack Kirby, it's strange that Laird sort of missed that lesson.

As for the story, it's an okay adventure, but not one that ever really stood out to me as anything great (certainly not as dull as Tales #1). It's an interesting installment in the character evolution of the Turtles, particularly Donatello, as he's shown to regret taking the life of even a psycho terrorist at the end, when in the earliest Mirage issues he was gutting people without a care in the world or any sign of remorse.

And man, I hate Laird's portrayal of Casey in this issue. It runs completely counter to everything Casey stands for. A guy int rouble comes running through the forest, begging for help, and Casey's first reaction is to sieze him by the collar and threaten to beat him up?

That's not Casey.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:56 AM   #5
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Art-wise is one of my favorite issues. I love how Laird can draw natural landscapes and the turtles. These kinda meditative (with only a bit of action) stories are also something that I always dig. Lawson & Murphy's #28, "Sons of the silent age" is a good companion to this one.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:23 PM   #6
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Left-wing dreck.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:24 PM   #7
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I don't think I'd call #12 a standout issue by any means, but it was about as enjoyable as Eastman's "The Unmentionables" to me... though both issues seemed to be lacking a certain something to me. Though #12 did seem like a sensible, gradual way to ease us away from the "core storyline" we'd been reading from #1-11 and more into the indy creator stuff that would follow.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:48 PM   #8
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I like this issue, but it makes a terrible first impression. Everytime I've ever picked it up Its hard to get past the first few pages. With that said, I hope IDW gets around to coloring this one at some point whether its in a floppy or a trade. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the detail. I would say its way better than the Unmentionables...but that's because I didn't like the unmentionables at all. However, coming off of 10 and 11, two of my absolute favorite issues, 12 feels like its treading water. Not to mention I'm not a huge fan of tales that don't move the over-all story forward.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:27 AM   #9
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I hope IDW gets around to coloring this one at some point whether its in a floppy or a trade. It will be interesting to see how they deal with the detail.
They will color it badly and cheaply like they've done with all the other issues so far.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:28 PM   #10
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I love the art on this one. It's cool that you can definitely see how the turtles are drawn close to Pete's modern style, but still retain a bit of the look from the early E&L days. That splash page where Leo and Raph jump out of the mud was awesome.

The story is stupid though. I mean... Skonk, Pewk, Bubba, C.R.A.P. etc. I did love how Donny and Raph jumped at each other, that was a neat moment. Other than that this is pretty forgettable though.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:16 PM   #11
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I kinda liked the 4kids adaption better because there the terrorists were against aliens, (since it took place in Season 3 after the Triceraton invasion), rather than just being extremists against America.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:51 PM   #12
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I've always MUCH rather preferred Laird's drawing of the turtles to Eastman's
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:02 AM   #13
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This is an interesting issue. Its particularly strong in the character development of the Turtles which after the story heavy Issues 10 and 11 is a great change of pace. The fact that there are those days when the turtles just get to have a picnic and reflect on what's going on instead of fighting some crazy alien, monster, or terrorist group is my favorite part of the franchise. Sure their picnic is ruined and they wind up right in the middle of a fight, but those first pages seeing that the whole team has begun to heal even further than what was shown at the end of True Stories is a lovely way to start the story.

Then of course you have the least Casey Jones action of all the Casey Jones actions which is a definite low point for the book. Even in the thick of the action you have these great moments with the Turtles that further develop their unique personalities, but Casey is so bipolar. Its very apparent in Laird treatment of the character that he's not that big a fan. Threatening the guy who comes out of nowhere while on the secluded picnic in the woods, I could almost forgive if as soon as the story of why he was there was told, Casey softened.

I understand the initial reaction, they had just been defeated by Shredder everybody was kind of on edge and Casey would be damned if he would allow his friends to be hurt again, but to keep on bulying the victim is ridiculous. Not to mention that line about wishing he could stick around and bust some heads, it feels like it was just added to be added. What makes all of this especially odd is that Splinter was prepared to teach Casey some ninjitsu seconds before it all happened. Something I just don't think he would do for someone with such an obvious lack of control.

As I've hinted I am a big fan of the development of each of the Turtles in this book:

Donatello: Showing his intelligence in wanting to survive rather than rush headlong towards a nuclear device, is a perfect example of the fact that the Turtles aren't heroes in a half-shell. Heroes would do something like that without question. The fact that Don actually takes the time to stop and rationalize the threat of going up against a nuclear device is something you wouldn't see in most comic books. I also like the crisis of conscious moment he experiences before going off to disarm the bomb, its very real, its the sort of thing an actual person might do if faced with the same situation. Finally the fact that he actually weeps for the lethal ending of the conflict. This is what makes the Turtles such a great franchise, the moments of reflection. The fact that even with all they experience they still stop to think about what's happened. Sure its not the most exciting thing to read about but it helps to make these character's more believable. Bookending Issue 12 with these moments was also a fantastic device for this one off issue.

Leonardo: Definitely back in control after what happened to him in his micro series. His confidence seems to have been regained and its nice to see him able to pause and appreciate what has happened to him. At the same time it displays the fact that he has somewhat lost his edge as a leader. He is happy to stay in Northhampton, he is allowing his brothers and himself the moment to act as teenagers. An act that will eventually come to a head later on in Issue 19.

Raphael: Speaking of Issue 19, these are the first real moments where we see Raph doubts Leo's abilities as a leader after their defeat at 2nd Time Around. April clearly asks Leonardo if they can cover her and Casey while bringing Michael to the car. Yet it is Raphael who answers and not just with "No problem April" but with an entire plan for going about dealing with the Survivalists. An earlier Leo would have been the one to speak up, but hear he let's Raph speak, probably because there is still that bit of doubt as a leader, this is also shown in the fact that he accompanies Leo in attacking the Survivalists, almost as if to keep an eye on him. Then you have the Donatello/Raphael fight which is a great display of family. Raph calling Donatello a wimp and a coward comes across in such a brotherly fashion and its nice to have those moments when we are reminded of just how tightly knit these four are. Plus Raphael's plan is actually pretty sound and a good argument for why he thinks he could be the leader instead of Leonardo. Its also a nice moment to see that one of the reason's Raph is such a loner is because unlike his brother's there is that part of him that just wants to help others, no matter the risk.

Michelangelo: As per usual Mikey gets the least amount of development. We do see that he is good with another weapon besides his Nunchucks and also that he is more than capable of dealing with a threat on his own. The lack of development can be forgiving those, since his interaction with Chet, when he pulls out his 'chucks and says he knows how to use them is probably what inspired the "Ah a fellow chucker" scene in the first movie.

After the Survivalists are introduced there really isn't much more there. Skonk is the only one who gets any real development and then its mostly just as a crazy person. I think the scariest part though is that as grand as his delusions are he actually found followers. He was able to find four people who were willing to do whatever it takes to survive, four people who had zero qualms about setting off a nuclear device. Which while Skonk may have been the heart and soul of C.R.A.P. still makes it a little scary that they got away.

The message of the book also is still relevant today. Most of the stuff about America falling from greatness in the 80's is still true now. Which is sad, we used to be the greatest nation and clearly that is no longer the case, but we still think that way. Also people like the survivalists still exist, only now they want to prove their worth in a Zombie Wasteland, its sad that there are people who suffer from such delusions that can't see enjoy the world around them, but instead want to be always prepared for what great tragedy might affect Mankind.

Is Survivalists the best TMNT comic? No, but that doesn't mean its not worth reading, and to those who say it doesn't further the overall storyline, I have to politely disagree. I think taking the time to flesh out character's and foreshadow future events even in such a small manner is very important in the grand scheme. Though I will say that a grad student from U-Mass being able to build an Atomic Device was a difficult plot point for me to suspend my disbelief on.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:34 PM   #14
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I really dug this issue. I loved it when Skonk was going crazy with his cause about death being the only way to change things.
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