"Be patient. It’s going to be okay. We’re being respectful of the franchise.”

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

"What if this time Leo just decided to step back and watch Raph make a fool of himself for a while. Maybe heckle him the way he's been heckling Leo for all these years?"

From the right angle it would be amusing.

And a lost opportunity for 2003 when Leo was away with the Ancient One. Surely someone had to step up while Leo was away and could have been told stories, probably via Mikey, about Raph trying to fill his shoes while he was gone. Commence heckling. I'd just rather see said heckling done in a style that would happen in a show more like that one.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

We're not looking at it from the same angle.
I don't see this as creative license, I see this as creative licensing, and I definitely don't think they're thinking in those terms. Of course, I'd happily be proven wrong.

The design is still ugly, can't reframe.
I do respect the fact that you like it, but that's opinion territory, similar to the ones that hate it.

I'm sure over time, it will become THE defacto version of the turtles, and eventually, Mirage will be painted over and forgotten, while 2012 will soon stand as the new OG.
It is the way of all things. they are not ours anymore.

I think we are looking at this from the same angle, I'm just way further afield than you are. Every cartoon, movie, and comic that was a tie into a cartoon or a movie is/has been/will always be creative licensing.

Changes for the sake of marketing - which...is really what we should be using instead of "changes for the sake of change. Because that's what people really seem to mean when they lob that. - is one of the few constants this franchise has. I'm used to it by now. It doesn't ruffle my feathers.

I wouldn't respect that I like these character designs, because...well, a) respect me for being a person, not my opinions on things, and b) it's more accurate to say I don't hate these designs, than to say that I like them.

I'm defending the show because I like new things, and we don't get new good things without sometimes enduring bad new things.

The voice cast looks great. The voice director is top notch. If the stories are good, and the performances match, then I'll warm up to the designs.
Also...there's a good chance the design models will evolve with the production should it go on.

That's what happened with Steven Universe and Avatar the Last Airbender.
Heck, even the Simpsons changed style over time.

I'm not placing a value judgement on the designs. Whether or not I like them doesn't make them good or bad. I'd imagine that's something best decided by an animator. Bad Design would make it harder for them to do their jobs.

But yes, they're not ours. They never really were.

[Leonardo_thebest]

So, you don't like the designs, but you want new stuff, so you're suffering the design in the hopes that keeps the brand alive so they make even more new stuff.

Maybe that's not exactly right, but it sounds like what these threads have been about. I guess that's the same thinking as Support Hillary because otherwise, you get Trump, right?

What about, nope, it's not good, do it again? I'm a fan of that. Let's have that.
And I'm just learning about the magic weapons.

See, I get that you want them to try new things because you like new stuff, but we know Bay turtles hurt the brand in a big way. any property that has a massive misfire has difficulty course correcting. If the follow up to a low rated show like 2012, and a terrible film like out of the Shadows is a mess, the brand will sputter and stahl out.

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

It would be wise for them to scrap the series now and reset, before they have a Justice League level implosion.

Slim to no chance of that. What's one cheap kids TMNT cartoon going to do in the grand scheme of things besides possibly hook a new generation of Little Timmys?

[IndigoErth]

Create a generation of little Timmys (and Tammys) that'll show up here in 10 to 15 years, damned and determined and eager to debate that Raph is leader, Leo is an asshat, Splinter is lazy, and the TMNT are about a magic underworld, because the one show they're nostalgic for told them so?




Already not fond of it when Leo is only someone's fave because he wears blue, has swords, or is leader... Can't wait for those who claim him as their fave because of this "trickster" junk and other nonsense... Ugh, get out. Anyone who is drawn to that depiction may sadly not be as into him elsewhere.

[shihe]

Ugh.. I get people are upset. But we JUST got off a pretty darn good retelling of the story. I'm genuinly curious to see how all these changes, for the sake of change or not, will play out.


There are a few layers of lore that IMO should be respectos more than others.

1.) They're teenagers, mutants, ninjas, and Turtles.
Anything here changes, and it's no longer what we know and love. (Although being "teenagers" doesn't really change much for me. They could be adults, or maybe Even kids, and it would still be ok). Also, of they look far removed from looking like the og designs (looking at you, Bay Turtles) then it's a major red flag from me.

2.) The Shredder/Splinter/Tang Sheng backstory. This one is essential. The rivalry is one of the best things about TMNT, in my opinion. Anytime this doesn't exist is like taking away half my motivation to watch.

3.) The Colors. By now, we're far too used to bandana Colors associated with a specific turtle to change them.

4.) The weapons. This one stirs some inner conflict, but not a lot for me personally. Ninjas use a variety of weapons. And although we've come to associate them with specific ones, they still have wielded other weapons, ever since Michaelangelo in the OT, or the whole gang in that particular season of 2012. I don't have a problem with weapons changing as long as they throw us a bone at some point and give them their usual weapons.

5.) Character races. Not a problem in the slightest.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by shihe

Even kids, and it would still be ok.

The only thing they could do then would be take down neighbourhood bullies at street level.

[sdp]

It was obvious Nick wasnt going to cancel one TMNT show to just make a new one immediately that was basically the same. If they wanted more of that they wouldve just greenlit another season.

Nick wanted a new show and so did playmates so we got this new show because the 2012 show just wasnt cutting it for them even if you may think that 2012 was great. Its a desperate try to get some more money off the property and itll fail for that very reason, people dont like these radical changes.

Im personally a fan of them doing all these things as Ive stated countless of times here but its abig gamble and no surprise that people hate it.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Nonsense. The statistics are against you. And technically speaking kids can barely even use FB anyway... I think you have to be 13 or 14 these days to even sign up. Used to be 18. And used to be only if you're on a college campus. You can lie, of course, and a lot do.

Except they arent, i cant really post data since im on mobile but emarketer just released how much of the audience facebook is likely to lose this year. I mean read my post, yes many kids use facebook but its no growing its in decline and will continue to do so. Its like looking at myspace s numbers in 2008 and say that Myspace is doing great when it was already declining. The myspace reference in Iron Man is so outdated that most kids dont even get it anymore.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

Already not fond of it when Leo is only someone's fave because he wears blue, has swords, or is leader... Can't wait for those who claim him as their fave because of this "trickster" junk and other nonsense... Ugh, get out. Anyone who is drawn to that depiction may sadly not be as into him elsewhere.

Which it's pretty much how I feel about every Incarnation of Mike that isn't Mirage. So they won't be alone.

They can share a table with the OT Quippy Raph fans too.

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

So, you don't like the designs, but you want new stuff, so you're the design in the hopes that keeps the brand alive so they make even more new stuff.

Not a good summary at all, no.

Maybe that's not exactly right, but it sounds like what these threads have been about. I guess that's the same thinking as Support Hillary because otherwise, you get Trump, right?

No.

What about, nope, it's not good, do it again? I'm a fan of that. Let's have that.
And I'm just learning about the magic weapons.

Really? That news has been or for months.
You're doing that values judgement thing again.
You not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.

See, I get that you want them to try new things because you like new stuff, but we know Bay turtles hurt the brand in a big way. any property that has a massive misfire has difficulty course correcting. If the follow up to a low rated show like 2012, and a terrible film like out of the Shadows is a mess, the brand will sputter and stahl out.

That is the risk, yes.
I think it's worth it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's no surpise the toys don't sell much at the end of a series, when most children have the main characters.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Not a good summary at all, no.

ok, help me out, I tried .

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Really? That news has been or for months.

Are you calling me a casual?
Yes, I missed the news.

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

You're doing that values judgement thing again.
You not liking it doesn't mean it's bad.

That's not what I said, I said I'm just learning about it, and while the news has been out for a while, Now, instead of their training winning the day, it's a hamfisted MacGuffin, which may be blended into the story, but reeks of bulletproof shells and magic blood.

[plastroncafe]

Both of which are Canon compliant with Mirage.
There's a short in which Leonardo gets hit with a bullet that ricochets off is shell, and the river storyline shows the turtles as having mutagenic or "magic" blood.

[Leonardo_thebest]

A bullet could ricochet off a wall too, that does not mean the wall is bulletproof.
Mutagenic blood is not magic blood.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

A bullet could ricochet off a wall too, that does not mean the wall is bulletproof.
Mutagenic blood is not magic blood.

There's still a basis in canon for both. That this basis is not to your liking doesn't negate the fact that it exists.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

There's still a basis in canon for both. That this basis is not to your liking doesn't negate the fact that it exists.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

Ricochet does not imply bulletproof, and mutagenic is not magic.
You're stretching it to fit your own narrative, counselor.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

Ricochet does not imply bulletproof, and mutagenic is not magic.
You're stretching it to fit your own narrative, counselor.

https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m...vaudo7_250.gif

Which time?
Do you mean the animation glitches?
Or the fact that they're mostly wearing non-red colors?

Because I'd say the switch from all red to colored is precedent enough.

[Leonardo_thebest]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Which time?
Do you mean the animation glitches?
Or the fact that they're mostly wearing non-red colors?

Because I'd say the switch from all red to colored is precedent enough.

Har. har. har.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Leonardo_thebest

That's like claiming the time they screwed up bandana colors in the OT gives president for switching them in a new series.

A future show could use the original toydesign mask designation where Mikey was supposed to be purple masked and Donnie had orange.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

A future show could use the original toydesign mask designation where Mikey was supposed to be purple masked and Donnie had orange.

What do we think the knee-jerk to that would look like?
On a scale from Three Toes to Nostrils.

[shredder orokusaki]

Why do you think out of the shadows failed.? Because i didnt fight the turtles. They had my enemy that alien Krang and my stupid henchmen fighting the turtles. What you expected? To be a succes without me? This cant happen. It is not suprise that it failed. They know that this show will fail much more if it dont have me that why i will be the main villian. They dont want tohave another failure . TO be a succes i must be in most episodes like i was in 1987series and have me as main villian in most episodes and not like the 2003 and 2012 where i wasnt in so many episodes compared to 1987 series.