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Old 12-02-2018, 09:40 AM   #1
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TMNT Reboot: Baxter Stockman vs The Rat King

You know, since we are heading into another reboot they are developing, I have been wondering about what kind of movie would be the best for our next TMNT restart. And it seems to me the best idea is one that has been mentioned on these boards before (including by me), and peter Laird even mentioned it in his TMNT entity blog once. I'm talking about Baxter Stockman and his mousers vs. the rat king.

It seems like such an obvious choice: the two villains are so diametrically opposed to each other; a villain who has rat hunting robots, against a foe who believes rats are superior to humans. If Rat King takes control of Splinter to fight for him, the turtles could get caught in the middle.The turtles have enemies they can bloodlessly smash with their weapons in the form of the mousers, and April can be introduced of Baxter's assistant. It would be a story we have NEVER seen before, and you could set up the foot clan for a sequel.

So, what would everyone else think of this as a reboot?
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:00 AM   #2
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Interesting concepts, and the logic makes sense, but I doubt they’d establish that story so soon in the reboot process for the same reason my certain favorite character hasn’t been in a movie yet: people seem to expect the Shredder arc to be the beginning (and usually the end) of a given era’s story. Not to say I want that particular form of recycling to always happen: on the contrary, part of me wishes the IMDB cast list mentioned elsewhere wasn’t a hoax for its mentioning of several not-so-common allies and enemies.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:11 AM   #3
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Got my hopes up for a sec that there might have been a tidbit of news. lol Anyhow, yeah, it's an interesting idea that could work pretty well. My only concern is the Turtles falling to the sideline as supporting cast -- albeit very involved supporting case -- if the concept has a very easy chance of making the villains the main stars of it, even if not intentional.

Putting someone else too far into the center of it was one of the issues with 2014, as it wanted to focus on Megan Fox, er, April.




Although what I'm expecting is it probably to start at the origin again... Which doesn't sound all that exciting at this point and wish they'd just skip it instead of trying to eff it up just to be different and exciting.

You know how the comics like to have that footnote, see issue # whatever that relates to something mentioned that previously happened? Why not be creative and maybe make the opening a little comics book-ish in style and find a way to work that in, suggesting a reference to comic or a previous film?



edit: Ah man, of any established character they could finally include next, preferably live action and presumably via CGI, Leatherhead would be awesome to see. Esp if they took their cues from the likes of 2003.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:18 AM   #4
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I am all in on this most overlooked concept in TMNT lore. The closest was elderly Rat King coming after Donatello for reworking the mouser to legally and effectively take care of NYC's rat problem in just one plotline from Future Shark Trilogy.
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Old 12-02-2018, 10:23 AM   #5
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You do raise an interesting idea, IndigoErth, about footnote storytelling. It certainly could help get on with the story for the movie line if well executed, not to mention it’s different in its own way, especially if the plot isn’t linear like a typical sequel process.

And fully agreed about LH having an appearance: it would be nice if I could see him in a movie for once, especially if he ends up becoming an ally like in the majority of his appearances.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:19 AM   #6
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Just add some more dangerous robots or vehicles for Baxter Stockman (that an destroy entire skyscrapers) and let the Rat King mutate some of his rats. Imagine the turtles fighting entire groups of mutant rats, led by a brainwashed Splinter!
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:24 PM   #7
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That would be pretty cool.

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Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan View Post
(that an destroy entire skyscrapers)
Yes, some actual damage to the city, that makes the Turtle's efforts more notable to the citizens, would be nice. (Unlike Krang who never even posed a real threat in 2016. Such a waste of a character.)
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Old 12-03-2018, 04:33 PM   #8
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That would be pretty cool.


Yes, some actual damage to the city, that makes the Turtle's efforts more notable to the citizens, would be nice. (Unlike Krang who never even posed a real threat in 2016. Such a waste of a character.)
How about a Baxter Stockman and Krang teamup?
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Old 12-03-2018, 05:02 PM   #9
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Yeah, that would be awesome too. If they were to use the same character models from the last film, Krang really does need to return and be an actual threat this time.
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:06 PM   #10
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But please, no more fly. It was just a way of writing Baxter Stockman out of the Fred Wolf series as a main character (to return in a few later episodes to seek revenge on Krang and Shredder). In the Nickelodeon series, it just felt forced.
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Old 12-04-2018, 04:55 PM   #11
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What, we can't have a "realistic" CGI fly mutant Baxter?? Might be freaky enough to garner TMNT a slightly higher rating.

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Old 12-04-2018, 10:54 PM   #12
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I'm more partial to the Goldblum version, or more specifically, to the sequel with Brundel's son. That thing was SCARY!
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Old 12-09-2018, 10:24 PM   #13
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Baxter Stockman vs The Rat King is definitely one of the better original ideas for a non Shredder movie.

Of course therein lies a bit of a problem; it's a non Shredder movie.

TMNT does have something of a villain problem that can be broken down into two facets.

Firstly that it doesn't seem a movie where Shredder isn't the villain stands much of a chance of commercial success. Heck Out of the Shadows did have him in a supporting role with Bebop, Rocksteady and Krang with the Technodrome no less, what everyone banked the farm on being huge draws due to them being from the 80s show and yet it tanked.

I appreciate people want to skip ahead to other villains rather than rehash the same ones but I just don't see anyone but Shredder as the central antagonist getting asses on seats. Sure, once you've done a really good Shredder movie you've won the audience's trust and can branch but unless you have a really good hook for a TMNT movie you need the villain everyone cares about first.

Secondly most of the turtles antagonists are conceptually poor "final boss" villains. Leatherhead would make a good ally/supporting character, if you want you can have a misunderstanding with the turtles which causes them to fight but as proper villain what would Leatherhead's big plan be that the turtles have to stop? What would a big third act blow out be with Rat King be? The turtles fighting rats?

Some villains you could probably beef up. For my money Baxter Stockman would be a good candidate for this. You could probably get some interesting aerial battles if they went for the fly version but mostly human/cyborg with mousers and a giant robot would be cool. Still I can't help but think that the character would be best served as a lackey providing tech to Shredder and the Foot which is basically what he in most other versions.

There are some villains that you could easily build a movie around. Bishop and Hun are two big ones that could definitely carry a movie but with them you got the first problem that no one outside of established fans know them.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:10 AM   #14
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Bishop and Hun are two big ones that could definitely carry a movie but with them you got the first problem that no one outside of established fans know them.
Have Krang invade Earth, and let John Bishop lead the Earth Protection Force.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:04 PM   #15
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Galactus, you’ve more or less stated my own viewpoint on the matter. Not to mention that, when it comes to alternative villains, Leatherhead was never the mastermind behind anything huge, not even in the times he wasn’t an ally of the turtles. Closest we get to that is the mishap in IDW #56 to #58, as well as #85, and even there, I find it hard to blame the victim (Leatherhead) over the perpetrator (Krang) for everything that happened in those issues.
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Old 12-16-2018, 08:57 AM   #16
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I honestly feel you guys are naive if you think we're not just going to get more of the same. I hope I am wrong.
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:04 AM   #17
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I honestly feel you guys are naive if you think we're not just going to get more of the same. I hope I am wrong.
Depends on what you mean by more of the same, in my case. ROT is quite different in the wrong ways, imo. As for the movies, admittedly I haven't watched the 2014 or 2016 movies, yet, so I have no real basis of opinion about those movies being good or bad, though you are right that it probably wouldn't deviate too much from those, knowing that, from what I heard, Michael Bay is still involved.
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Old 12-17-2018, 11:58 AM   #18
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Bishop and Hun are two big ones that could definitely carry a movie but with them you got the first problem that no one outside of established fans k0now them.
So? I mean look at the Batman films you think the average person knows who the heck Ra's Al Ghul or Bane are?
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:29 AM   #19
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There are some villains that you could easily build a movie around. Bishop and Hun are two big ones that could definitely carry a movie but with them you got the first problem that no one outside of established fans know them.
I think Hun and the Purple Dragons alone can only carry a Casey Jones solo film. But John Bishop, definitely, can carry a TMNT film. So much better than Rahzar and Tokka.
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Because of continuity and timeline errors, I've given up writing fanfiction based on the 1987-1996 animated television series. Instead, I'm trying to reboot the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles story, something many other fanfiction writers already do:

Hopefully, stories will later appear at

http://www.fanfiction.net/u/968367/O...NT-Cartoon-Fan

Last edited by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan; 12-22-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 12-28-2018, 06:37 PM   #20
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So? I mean look at the Batman films you think the average person knows who the heck Ra's Al Ghul or Bane are?
Yeah that's Batman. People are going to turn out for Batman and even then the movie which got people the most hyped to watch was the one that had his best known villain as the primary antagonist. TMNT is just not on that level.

I don't think it can be stated enough that Out Of The Shadows had what is considered to be the most popular and well known villains outside of the Shredder and it tanked. Clearly all that internet hype from people who had waited their "entire lives" to see these characters in a TMNT movie did not translate to ticket sales.

TMNT needs to look like a movie where those making it are talking it seriously and a big part of that is the choice of villain. Not just in terms of of being the most popular but also the best you can build a story around. When you've won over the audience then you can go with the deep cut choices.

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I think Hun and the Purple Dragons alone can only carry a Casey Jones solo film. But John Bishop, definitely, can carry a TMNT film. So much better than Rahzar and Tokka.
You're probably right about Hun and the Purple Dragons. While I think the character's status could be beefed up to work as a main villain he's probably best served as secondary character like if the had a City At War movie were he's vying to pick up the Foot's position and you could have his rivalry with Casey and have his origin as a subplot with flashbacks to him burning down the Jones' auto shop and the implied murder of his father. Writes itself. Bishop is conceptually the better villain after Shredder to carry a movie. Maybe Triceratons but I think they'd need a more compelling leader than Zanramon has ever been portrayed.
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