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Old 02-05-2018, 07:55 AM   #1
neatoman
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Remember that time April transformed into a demon?



So that was cool.

I honestly don't have much of a reason to make this thread, I just read the Original Devilman, Devilman Grimoire, Mao Dante, watched the Mao Dante anime and the Devilman OVA after watching Devilman Crybaby. It just reminded me of this episode (probably more Dante than Devilman) but I seriously doubt anyone involved in making the episode even knew about Go Nagai. There's not much more to say about this episode other than it's technically where Spider Bytez came from.

Anyway, actual question here. Demon April, Yay or Nay?
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #2
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I was disappointed this was never made into an action figures with attachable wings, but the toy line was on its last legs by the time the Back the Sewers episodes aired.

I do remember Ninjinister made a cool custom of it!
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...209#post713209
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:31 AM   #3
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That's actually my favorite episode of Back to the Sewers. Second favorite would be "Hacking Stockman."

The last seasons cyber Turtles stuff got old fast, but the episodes without it or very little of it worked very well.
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:04 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by oldmanwinters View Post
I was disappointed this was never made into an action figures with attachable wings, but the toy line was on its last legs by the time the Back the Sewers episodes aired.

I do remember Ninjinister made a cool custom of it!
http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/sho...209#post713209
And sadly it broke when I moved last
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Old 02-05-2018, 01:24 PM   #5
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And sadly it broke when I moved last
A shame! But that wingspan was huge, so it's understandable.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:06 PM   #6
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Hmm, I don't remember this at all.

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I was disappointed this was never made into an action figures with attachable wings, but the toy line was on its last legs by the time the Back the Sewers episodes aired.
And a Back To The Sewer line would've been such a given. It would've been the four turtles in their cyber gear. And then there would've been Cyber Shredder, Khan, a Cyber Foot ninja...
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:25 PM   #7
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Hmm, I don't remember this at all.
...
It's from "The Engagement Ring," it's arguably the best episode of the Back to the Sewers season, or my favorite anyway.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:37 PM   #8
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It's from "The Engagement Ring," it's arguably the best episode of the Back to the Sewers season, or my favorite anyway.
I'd probably personally put "Hacking Stockman" over it by a smidge, but yeah... that was a good episode.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:43 PM   #9
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It's from "The Engagement Ring," it's arguably the best episode of the Back to the Sewers season, or my favorite anyway.
Oh, the ring did that to her! I think I remember now. And no, definitely not the best BTTS episode. That title goes to Tempus Fugit.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:02 PM   #10
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Was that the first ep? The ones with the least cyber-turtle stuff tended to be the better ones that season.
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Old 02-06-2018, 04:12 PM   #11
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Was that the first ep? The ones with the least cyber-turtle stuff tended to be the better ones that season.
Just like the Ninja Tribunal episodes with the least mystic-Turtles stuff were the best and the Fast Forward episodes with the least Cody and Serling were the best!
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Old 02-06-2018, 05:33 PM   #12
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The difference is the mystic power stuff was a main point of the season and they don't even master their powers till halfway in it, the cyber turtle stuff would be fine for a single episode or two, but there was no plot for it for the whole season. We just had to have scenes going there finding Splinter databits almost every ep.
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Old 02-06-2018, 06:23 PM   #13
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I mean it wouldn't be the first anime reference in that series so it's not impossible. Go Nagai is pretty well known, or at least his works are.

Now go watch Violence Jack, Shin Cutey Honey, and CB Chara Go Nagai World!
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:06 AM   #14
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I mean it wouldn't be the first anime reference in that series so it's not impossible. Go Nagai is pretty well known, or at least his works are.

Now go watch Violence Jack, Shin Cutey Honey, and CB Chara Go Nagai World!
I mean sure, he is one of the most important manga artists of all time, but I'm trying put myself in the mindset of an American in 2007. Devilman is only now getting an official translation for the American market and before recently, this OVA dub is what most of them got to experience.

It's not impossible to find fan translations and what not, it's just that on average I doubt he or his work is that famous in the US. It would have been a rather niche audience.
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:40 AM   #15
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'87 April was allegedly based on Fujiko Mine. I don't know anybody who had heard of Lupin III in the states at that time.

Plus in 2007, there was this thing called "the internet", so I'm sure there were more than just a few people who knew what Devilman was. I mean, it likely didn't have a substantial fanbase, but I mean, I'd heard of it by 2007.
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:35 AM   #16
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'87 April was allegedly based on Fujiko Mine. I don't know anybody who had heard of Lupin III in the states at that time.
Alleged by David Wise and David Wise alone. Don't trust a word that man says unless it's backed up by someone else. I've seen him try to claim the Utroms weren't the main influence on Krang's creation and he only included them after being asked about them.

A lot of his claims are contradicted by other people. Most of these claims are ones in which he gives himself credit for a creative decision or creation, it's pretty obvious he's just trying to spin everything in his favor to make himself seem more important. Since Fujiko Mine barely resembles April and he's a writer rather than a character designer, it's more likely that she's based on April's design in issue 2 (with the actual character designer maybe being inspired by Fujiko). David Wise was probably just asked if any similarity was intentional and thought he could could it to further peddle his crap.

I strongly suspect that if David Wise was entirely truthful about his writing process on season 1, it'd probably sound more like this:
"Fred Wolf handed me a concept and character sheets already hammered out by Playmates, I wrote the first draft scripts and then other people altered them. Not to mention that the voice actors improvised many if not most of the lines. At the end of the day, all I really did was stretch out a plotline handed to me so it would fit 5 episodes at 20 minutes each."
Because as far as I can tell from other sources than him, that's mostly what happened.

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Plus in 2007, there was this thing called "the internet", so I'm sure there were more than just a few people who knew what Devilman was. I mean, it likely didn't have a substantial fanbase, but I mean, I'd heard of it by 2007.
I'm not saying it's impossible, just unlikely.
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Old 02-07-2018, 05:59 AM   #17
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I mean, I knew about Devil Man as an American in 2007, but I'm a giant weeb, so...

The 2003 series has at least some confirmed anime influence/reference though, there's the Akira bike slide if nothing else.
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:33 AM   #18
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Alleged by David Wise and David Wise alone. Don't trust a word that man says unless it's backed up by someone else. I've seen him try to claim the Utroms weren't the main influence on Krang's creation and he only included them after being asked about them.

A lot of his claims are contradicted by other people. Most of these claims are ones in which he gives himself credit for a creative decision or creation, it's pretty obvious he's just trying to spin everything in his favor to make himself seem more important. Since Fujiko Mine barely resembles April and he's a writer rather than a character designer, it's more likely that she's based on April's design in issue 2 (with the actual character designer maybe being inspired by Fujiko). David Wise was probably just asked if any similarity was intentional and thought he could could it to further peddle his crap.

I strongly suspect that if David Wise was entirely truthful about his writing process on season 1, it'd probably sound more like this:
"Fred Wolf handed me a concept and character sheets already hammered out by Playmates, I wrote the first draft scripts and then other people altered them. Not to mention that the voice actors improvised many if not most of the lines. At the end of the day, all I really did was stretch out a plotline handed to me so it would fit 5 episodes at 20 minutes each."
Because as far as I can tell from other sources than him, that's mostly what happened.
Can you or anybody provide these sources? Because anytime I or someone else has asked for one, that I've seen, they're like "well uh I can't tell you."

All I ask for in situations like this is a shred of evidence and all I've seen is "pls believe me my friend at uh... a place said so."

I ain't callin' you out. It's just how I and most people should normally operate.

Closest I have seen is I think Laird once said "I suspect..." and then some stuff.

E'rrybody got their secret sources around here and look at how much of that seems to pan out to be legit.

The case would still stand though that one person on the production team knew who Fujiko was and that's all it would take to slip in a reference. Same with a Devilman reference in demon April... wouldn't even have to be a character designer, just a decision-maker.
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Old 02-07-2018, 10:06 AM   #19
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Can you or anybody provide these sources? Because anytime I or someone else has asked for one, that I've seen, they're like "well uh I can't tell you."

All I ask for in situations like this is a shred of evidence and all I've seen is "pls believe me my friend at uh... a place said so."

I ain't callin' you out. It's just how I and most people should normally operate.

Closest I have seen is I think Laird once said "I suspect..." and then some stuff.

E'rrybody got their secret sources around here and look at how much of that seems to pan out to be legit.

The case would still stand though that one person on the production team knew who Fujiko was and that's all it would take to slip in a reference. Same with a Devilman reference in demon April... wouldn't even have to be a character designer, just a decision-maker.
Alright, the part where he only talked about the Utroms in relation to Krang after going on about a long process that didn't involve them comes from the interview with Michelle Ivey. Then you can look up virtually any other interview in which he'll make claims like "I created the Turtles' different personalities", that particular example can be proven wrong by simply reading the original micros and a few other comics released before the show was being developed. Then there's the matter of adlibbed dialouge, the voice actors have unanimously admitted to ignoring the scripted dialogue, once again there's an interview Ivey had with Renae Jacobs as an example. There's at least one interview in which Wise claims to have come up with the phrase cowabunga, even though the voice actors claim it was another example of adlibbing, suggesting that the scripts were mostly used as a guideline from the start. Peter Laird has also admitted there a couple details vetoed after he and Kevin read the scripts, a notable example included the Turtles hijacking the Technodrome and turning it inte their own base (this is someI've never seen Wise admit to by the way, he always seems to act as if everything was his idea, or at least the parts people haven't mocked to death). There's actually a thread here on the Technodrome forums about an old article giving more details on what was vetoed, the point is that David Wise didn't have the control he claims, that part is a fact. Then David Wise has also claimed to have created Bebop and Rocksteady on request to put any new mutants in the show, even though toy designs of them have been found. Even Fred Wolf himself admitted the characters came from Playmates, not Wise.

I don't quite have the time to find all these sources right now, but the Ivey interviews are on her Youtube:


And Peter Laird's statement is right here:
http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot..../ask-pl-6.html
"I don't have many clear memories about getting those first batch of scripts, but I think we may not have seen any of them until our first visit to the offices of Murakami/Wolf in California. One thing I DO remember quite clearly is shooting down what Kevin and I both considered to be a ridiculous idea that Wolf (or someone writing for him) put forward -- that at the end of the first few episodes, the Turtles would take over the Technodrome and turn it into their lair."
Then there's the early Bebop and Rocksteady designs that are pretty easy to find:



Then I suppose you could just google "David Wise Interview TMNT", gives you outrageous statements like these:

"The [original 'Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles'] five part miniseries ends with the Turtles having to battle an alien armada that is coming through a gigantic black hole dimensional portal being projected in the sky directly above New York City. This dimensional portal projector has created a giant opening in the sky, with a whole alien armada coming through it. That's what the turtles are facing. The way to stop it is to shut down the machine that's generating the portal. All I have to say is: you're welcome Joss Whedon!"

http://screencrush.com/teenage-mutan...imated-series/

So basically, he's not very trustworthy. Like, at all.
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Old 03-19-2018, 02:37 PM   #20
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I literally just watched this last night on my series rewatch I've been conducting! So funny!
Anyway, I have to admit, she was a little creepy, and was surprised that they went with the eyes glowing, tongue hurling winged demon. Cool to see, but not what I expected when I first saw it!
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