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Old 12-21-2017, 10:30 PM   #581
Papenbrook
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Here are the fates of Sonic Team's Unleashed/Generations staff members.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nintex
The reason is simple. Sonic Team lost most of their talent and has to rely to on contract work and new staff. People who are praising Super Mario Odyssey and Galaxy 2 are by extension praising Sonic Team.

Just some examples of Sonic Unleashed /Generations staff that in time jumped ship to Nintendo:
  • Tetsuya Kobayashi (Production Manager Sonic Unleashed - Mario Kart 8: Deluxe Course Design)
    Makoto Yonezu (lead field artist on Sonic Unleashed - Planet designer on Galaxy 2 - lead landscape artist on Zelda BOTW)
    Daisuke Amakawa (field artist on Sonic Unleashed - Character modeling for Zelda BOTW)
    Hideaki Hakozaki (field artist on Sonic Unleashed -Producer Xenoblade Chronicles X) Keihan Fujii (field artist Sonic Unleashed -Landscape Modeling Zelda BOTW)
    Ryoichi Yamagishi (field artist Sonic Generations -Course Design Mario Kart 8: Deluxe)
    Masahiro Ukai (Programmer Sonic Generations -Programmer Xenoblade Chronicles 2)

There's a clear pattern here as well. It usually goes like:
-> Sonic game -> Mario & Sonic Olympics -> Nintendo -> Sonic game -> random contract work -> Nintendo

SEGA doesn't seem to always have large scale Sonic projects in production so staff moves on after finishing the game. Usually within the company itself (say from Sonic to Yakuza or from Sonic on console to a mobile Sonic game or Puyo Puyo). I imagine that for projects like the new Valkyria Chronicles they also pick the best staff from the different teams to form a new project team. As Nintendo is heavily expanding and investing (and between Nintendo EPD, Nintendo EPD Tokyo and Monolith Software has dozens of large scale projects in production at any given time) people simply move on to work on Mario and Zelda games.

So if you think a planet in Galaxy 2 or a challenge in Super Mario Odyssey is inspired by Sonic gameplay it's probably because former Sonic team members have worked on it. It seems like Sonic Team staff working with Nintendo on Mario & Sonic games has also accelerated this trend in recent years.
So sad. Just ... why Sega ...?

And FYI:

Spoiler:


Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

Last edited by Papenbrook; 12-23-2017 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 12-22-2017, 04:25 AM   #582
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The Super Sonic DLC should be up very soon. Excited!



It is free for now. SEGA will make it a paid download on January 23. When that happens, the DLC will cost $1.99 / 1.99 / 1.69.



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Old 12-23-2017, 12:37 AM   #583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papenbrook View Post
Here are the fates of Sonic Team's Unleashed/Generations staff members.



So sad. Just ... why Sega ...?
Whats wrong with people changing jobs to their liking?

Also, this isn't the end of Sonic.
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 12-23-2017, 12:49 AM   #584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Blade View Post
The Super Sonic DLC should be up very soon. Excited!

It is free for now. SEGA will make it a paid download on January 23. When that happens, the DLC will cost $1.99 / 1.99 / 1.69.
I'm so ... conflicted and confused.

Why would-

You know what? I don't care anymore. Sega/Sonic Team can do whatever the hell they want now.

I think it's been made painfully clear; they stopped caring about the Sonic franchise.

Last edited by Papenbrook; 12-23-2017 at 01:03 AM.
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Old 12-23-2017, 06:51 AM   #585
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While I understand your discouragement, you're overreacting to this news.
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Old 12-23-2017, 08:44 AM   #586
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Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer View Post
While I understand your discouragement, you're overreacting to this news.
I do find it kinda dumb to pay for something Sonic has always been able to do. Why stop there? Why not Sonic Spin Dash dlc? Tails fly dlc? The fire and electric shields from Sonic 3 dlc.

Might as well make a new Mario game and have the Fire Flower be dlc.
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Old 12-23-2017, 11:40 AM   #587
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Yeah and it's really not worth it with the levels being two minutes long anyway. Wouldn't bother if I was too late.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:41 AM   #588
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I think that this is an interesting quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iko
I have to agree. The game(Sonic Forces) is mediocre, a 6-7/10 at best; not bad but not even good.

What I disagree on is people who say that Generations is great. IMO Generations is just as mediocre as Forces.

3D Sonic has never been good, and while some games are kinda enjoyable despite the flaws, they are still flawed as hell.

When a true good 3D Sonic game will come out, people will realize how bad the previous games were, even overrated games such as Generations and its homing shots (jokes aside, that final boss alone to me is enough to lower the overall score of the game by 1 or 2 points out of 10, it's like the worst final boss in the series, or the worst boss in general).

And I agree about Lost World being boring and uninteresting, it's a game that works well on paper, but when you play it you realize that something is wrong with it... may be solid and well made as you want but it's not fun nor interesting at all (flawed as you want, even the 3DS version is more fun compared to the HD one, and it's a pretty bad game full of glitches and bad stuff, but at least it makes the gameplay more interesting by removing automation, introducing some skill-based shortcuts and being overall more challenging).

Sonic Utopia is absolutely NOT the right route, that's just a way to transform Sonic into a faster version of Minecraft or Zelda Breath of the Wild, killing its platformer nature (just like Zelda BotW killed Zelda's adventure nature in favor of just messing with the environment with no goal). People will love it, people adore that kind of games for some reasons, but it will just be a cheap route, that would damage the franchise in the long term just as much as the Adventure games did if not more. It's useless to make levels as big and open as possible, if they want to make a good 3D Sonic game they must work on the level design (something that's completely missing in Utopia). Sonic's biggest problem, both 2D and 3D, is level design (second biggest problem is physics/controls).
This makes me ponder if I ever had any bias towards the Sonic franchise and, more realistically, evidently, and oh-so importantly, its games.

I mean ... I know that I'm really passionate when it comes to caring about the Sonic franchise and its general reception. However, I think I need to view the franchise in a down-to-Earth manner, at least for a moment.

Maybe the Sonic games always had flaws related to their games' design, gameplay, development, atmosphere, physics, controls, lore, etc. The series never really received a perfect score (a ✰✰✰✰✰ reception) that accurately and actually reflects its games. It also hasn't had a really successful title that served to bring in all sorts of individuals, whether they're casual gamers, hardcore fans, critical players, experienced gamers, inexperienced players, etc.

Maybe, the series never had any fluid consistency that was well-grounded and prepared. Maybe, the series wasn't, or isn't, well-nurtured/polished enough. It always seems to either contradict itself with new, out-of-nowhere titles, or really on the same old wave a nostalgia that frequently repeats itself. If the games don't have those problems, then they are either buggy, glitchy, and all around uncontrollable, or automated, static and overall uneventful.

(Basically, the Sonic series lacks congruency. Huh. I guess I never actually thought it through nor took the time to realize it ... until now. That's ... worryingly depressing.)

I ... don't know if I want to keep following this franchise. It doesn't really have an established base of core gameplay, consistent lore, or target audience. The latest title only really proved my point.(In my opinion, it doesn't have a stable control of itself, nor does it seem to have a conflicting point-of-view/perspective. It tried to please everyone, but it just wasn't enough.) All in all, I'm undecided, but I'm only barely so.

Last edited by Papenbrook; 01-02-2018 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:05 AM   #589
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I thought Sonic Unleashed was a great 3D sonic game. Pretty underrated in my opinion and my personal favourite.

Aside from Sonic 2006, I don't get the general hate against 3D sonic games.They all try new ideas to varying degrees of success, but still feel like Sonic is supposed to be, or atleast thats how I feel about it since I am not a hardcore Sonic fan.
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.

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Old 01-02-2018, 03:32 AM   #590
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I adore 3D Sonic games including Unleashed, Lost World and Generations. So that stranger's comment can go footsack!
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:45 AM   #591
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Here's another very insightful/thoughtful quote.
It's from this very site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peanut View Post
The problem being that current day Sonic fans aren't Sonic fans because of the games and they simply aren't smart enough to realize that. People have nostalgia for the original games, but they're average at best. 2 is the best one (and my favourite) and half of that game is garbage. Because they have nostalgia for something that can't hold up, Sega makes similar and decent versions of that style of game - Sonic Advance, Sonic Rush, Sonic 4 (though this one has a lot of issues) and people aren't really feeling it, because...guess what? You can't recreate a feeling of quality that didn't exist in the first place. The people still clamoring for good Sonic games were children when the Genesis was out and they're asking for Sega to make something they've never ONCE done - make a great Sonic game.

They make "different" Sonic games in the style of Adventure, or Unleashed or whatever and the fans hate it, because it isn't well made or good enough. Why? Because they're fooling themselves into thinking Adventure of Adventure 2 were actually good games and not rose-tinted turds with semi-brilliant moments of automatic Sonic gameplay that pulled the wool over their eyes 15 years ago. Nostalgia (or sheer ignorance) won't allow people to realize their Sonic "holy grails", like 2,3,S&K and the Adventure series, actually aren't very good.

It doesn't help that every time Sega manages to do something decent with the series they find a way to completely ruin it. Generations is far and away the best Sonic game made in the last decade, perhaps of all-time, and the back half of that game is a f*cking train wreck! The last boss is among the worst I've ever played in ANY game.

Simply put, Sega caught lightning in a bottle with Sonic in the 90's. He was marketable, he was cool and he was backed up by a decent game that had enormous success based almost entirely on genius marketing, not because of quality. Mario became a huge success because the games were consistently excellent, not because Nintendo shoved him in kids faces and said "THIS IS COOL! THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT!" Now that Sonic is perhaps the furthest thing from "cool and marketable," Sega struggles to find any possible way to make him relevant to a general audience, hence nearly two decades worth of trash heap garbage with an increasingly irrelevant mascot slapped on it and confused fans who don't understand why Sega won't just make Sonic "good" again, when they've followed the status-quo and made those "good" Sonic games half a dozen times to absolutely ZERO fanfare.
Even though I disagree with some of his points, overall, I think he's correct.

Also:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldMutant View Post
First of all, to Shia's DLC. Now watch, they're going to make him a Smash Bros character. I can already imagine his tagline:

Shia does it again!!!

In all seriousness though, I really have no problems with Sonic Heroes, Unleashed, Generations, or Colors. The first one I really like because of nostalgia, the second feels like a final game, and then the last two are pretty loved by a lot. I keep saying to give Sonic a rest, Sega I feel should experiment with their other franchises like Nights, try to increase interest to leave the blue blur down. I honestly want Sonic to rest, otherwise the legacy of the character will be infamous.

If there's a way to improve the series, why not go with a game with a tone of the 90s show (NOT THE GOOFY ONE) with some good comedy? Maybe mix in a style similar to Sonic Rush and possibly Generations with it's 3D. You could make your own character helping Sonic and his friends in this world trying to save all. I don't know if this would be a good game idea, but food for thought.
GoldMutant predicted the future!○-○

Last edited by Papenbrook; 01-02-2018 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:40 AM   #592
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I noticed that the vast majority of the fanbase/critics NEVER actually seems to address, let alone specify the weaknesses/flaws/cons of ANY given piece of Sonic Media. They don't elaborate, explain, nor even go into detail as to why virtually every Sonic game isn't completely filled to the brim with perfection and accuracy.

It has the consequence of Sega not understanding the fundamental issues that people have with their games. Subsequently, they either miss or twist (i.e. confuse) the main point(s) of the overall criticism/reception of their games, and try to discard nearly everything in their games, even when its not necessary. Thus, we recieve more contrived/convoluted games that not only lacks any harmonious elements and a predominant goal, but also contradicts established gameplay/lore details, or even gets rid of them.


All in all, it makes Sega develop Sonic games improperly, though there are other factors to consider as well (time management, actual game development, gameplay concepts, etc.)

That always seemed to bother me.

(The above quote doesn't apply to anyone here by the way. This was just something I noticed.)

Last edited by Papenbrook; 01-02-2018 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:44 PM   #593
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VGChartz: Sonic Forces Apparently Sold Best On Nintendo Switch

https://mynintendonews.com/2018/01/0...ntendo-switch/
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:25 PM   #594
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark_Blade View Post
VGChartz: Sonic Forces Apparently Sold Best On Nintendo Switch

https://mynintendonews.com/2018/01/0...ntendo-switch/
It sold more then Sonic Mania? which is 10x more popular then Sonic Forces.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:47 PM   #595
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Apparently, Sega is promoting Sonic Forces ... with a Chuck E. Cheese advertisement.



Yes, this is real ...
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:04 PM   #596
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It sold more then Sonic Mania?
No, Sonic Mania definitely sold more then Sonic Forces. It just means that out of all platforms (PS4, XBOX, STEAM, SWITCH) Forces sold the most on Nintendo Switch.

Exact sales numbers of ether games are still unknown, but in America alone Sonic Mania was the 11th best selling game on the Nintendo Switch. Also in a Sega Financial report it was stated: "Sonic Mania performed strongly, becoming the most popular title among new SONIC titles released in the past 15 years."
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Old 01-08-2018, 07:43 AM   #597
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Here are some of the worst lines in Sonic Forces.

Spoiler:
"But I suppose that's the way it goes."

"Tru-dat."

"Do it to it, Shadow."

"None of this is good, Vector. That's why it's called 'War.'"

Even with the Phantom Ruby weakened, I still have enough power to smash you into blue jelly."

"Green Hill's looking a lot more like Sand Hill right now."


Those were some of the worst lines in Sonic history.

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Old 01-08-2018, 12:01 PM   #598
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Those sound like everyday sonic lines that youd hear from the other games, tv shows etc.

There's always been a certain corny, silly charm to sonic.
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:52 PM   #599
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Those sound like everyday sonic lines that youd hear from the other games, tv shows etc.

There's always been a certain corny, silly charm to sonic.
Still, must it be on-the-nose, meta-referential, and filled with popular slang?
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Old 01-08-2018, 01:11 PM   #600
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Still, must it be on-the-nose, meta-referential, and filled with popular slang?
Sonic's been "filled" with popular slang since he was first given voice, and meta-references are part of what made the current show so damn good.

Your hard-on of hate for this game is truly mind-boggling, especially two months after it's been out and forgotten by pretty much everyone else.
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