New Show coming in 2018

[Vegita-San]

i kind of think this is how the mirage fans felt when they first saw the original series premiered for the first time.

I understand even more now. although to be fair, at least the original series tried ot have some sense of realism and heart .

[Dejablue]

I notice most nay sayers of this show are Leo fans. Who here tho has Raph as their favorite turtle? How do you feel about him? And how do you feel about all the Leo fans demanding that Raph lose the position of leader instead of earning it?

[Vegita-San]

yeah, but will those new fans stick with it for 30 years, or just this one iteration?

that's the risk you take when trying to appeal to a whole new generation of people. when you change a show so much, it might as well be something else....you risk the core fans forever.

although some companies seem ok with that these days, so long as new fans come in every reboot.

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

I notice most nay sayers of this show are Leo fans. Who here tho has Raph as their favorite turtle? How do you feel about him? And how do you feel about all the Leo fans demanding that Raph lose the position of leader instead of earning it?

Raphael is bad too. They made him an idiot in this version. I have been dissatisfied with Raph's portrayal since 2003, with the exception of 2k7. So all this frustration over whether a character is being treated correctly is normal for me.

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Raphael is bad too. They made him an idiot in this version. I have been dissatisfied with Raph's portrayal since 2003, with the exception of 2k7. So all this frustration over whether a character is being treated correctly is normal for me.

How do you want him to be portrayed?

[CyberCubed]

It's pretty different to how Nick Leo was more down to earth and nerdy but still a leader. I guess we'll see this Leo grow into being a leader as the series progresses.

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

How do you want him to be portrayed?

More depth concerning his anger issues. It's one of the biggest reasons why I came to like the character. I'll be nice to go back to something similar to like the mirage or the 1990 film where his anger was associated with loneliness, borderline depression and being secluded from society until death. Getting tired of this I'm angry because I'm macho stereotype stuff.

2k3 was too grouchy and one dimensional. 2k12 was kind of useless and inconsistently angry for no apparent reason. For 2018, well you know, I've said it multiple times lol.

So I can't blame any Leo fan for feeling frustrated, it's not fun seeing a character you like not being used properly.

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

More depth concerning his anger issues. It's one of the biggest reasons why I came to like the character. I'll be nice to go back to something similar to like the mirage or the 1990 film where his anger was associated with loneliness, borderline depression and being secluded from society until death. Getting tired of this I'm angry because I'm macho stereotype stuff.

2k3 was too grouchy and one dimensional. 2k12 was kind of useless and inconsistently angry for no apparent reason. For 2018, well you know, I've said it multiple times lol.

So I can't blame any Leo fan for feeling frustrated, it's not fun seeing a character you like not being used properly.

Lol I'll admit Raphael is a goldmine for anyone who is willing to even attempt writing an indepth turtles story. Well they all are but Raph especially.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Pretty sure that's my final word on this.... thing.

I dunno, we've got a looooong way to go.

Originally Posted by Dejablue

I notice most nay sayers of this show are Leo fans. Who here tho has Raph as their favorite turtle? How do you feel about him?

Yeah, I'm curious to hear more from those on his side. I'd kind of expected the majority of Raph fans to be totally all for it, and of course some are, but what I've seen of comments from people elsewhere online they've kind of surprised me really. (Though it's hard to tell to what level those people are fans.)

But... silver lining? If some of Raph's people aren't quite feeling the changes either, then his and some/many of Leo's people finally have something in common? lol The cynical part of me is kind of curious about what all we will have to hate together down the road. lol

And how do you feel about all the Leo fans demanding that Raph lose the position of leader

Personally, there is no demanding, per se. Do I want him keeping the job? No. (Esp since Leo has been made kind of unnecessary other than having a magic portal sword.) But I think it's pretty terrible that they may throw Raph under the bus to do it. I hope not, but a wacky, simpleminded show like this doesn't really have the air of one that would try to be too complex or creative with the transition.

instead of earning it?

And that part, the way they've set this up, bugs me. He didn't earn it, he just took it because he's supposedly now the biggest and oldest. So the whole idea with this one (or so most of us assume now) is that this show is making Leo earn it... Which in and of itself I have no problem with, but if he has to earn it, then why didn't Raph?

It would have been better to have Raph actually earn it first, but then a bit more down the road Leo naturally ends up showing to have a better talent for leading, strategy, etc. But too complex for a show of this era I guess.

Other series also kind of make it obvious that due to his personality, seriousness about training and all that he has gained from it, etc., Leo already did in fact earn it off screen before the start of the series. At least in the parts of the franchise I'm most familiar with, he hasn't ever taken it just because he's "oldest." (Although 2012 was kind of lazy about it in the beginning. At least Splinter put more substance to it much later.)

[Dejablue]

Originally Posted by IndigoErth

I dunno, we've got a looooong way to go.



Yeah, I'm curious to hear more from those on his side. I'd kind of expected the majority of Raph fans to be totally all for it, and of course some are, but what I've seen of comments from people elsewhere online they've kind of surprised me really. (Though it's hard to tell to what level those people are fans.)

But... silver lining? If some of Raph's people aren't quite feeling the changes either, then his and some/many of Leo's people finally have something in common? lol The cynical part of me is kind of curious about what all we will have to hate together down the road. lol



Personally, there is no demanding, per se. Do I want him keeping the job? No. (Esp since Leo has been made kind of unnecessary other than having a magic portal sword.) But I think it's pretty terrible that they may throw Raph under the bus to do it. I hope not, but a wacky, simpleminded show like this doesn't really have the air of one that would try to be too complex or creative with the transition.


And that part, the way they've set this up, bugs me. He didn't earn it, he just took it because he's supposedly now the biggest and oldest. So the whole idea with this one (or so most of us assume now) is that this show is making Leo earn it... Which in and of itself I have no problem with, but if he has to earn it, then why didn't Raph?

It would have been better to have Raph actually earn it first, but then a bit more down the road Leo naturally ends up showing to have a better talent for leading, strategy, etc. But too complex for a show of this era I guess.

Other series also kind of make it obvious that due to his personality, seriousness about training and all that he has gained from it, etc., Leo already did in fact earn it off screen before the start of the series. At least in the parts of the franchise I'm most familiar with, he hasn't ever taken it just because he's "oldest." (Although 2012 was kind of lazy about it in the beginning. At least Splinter put more substance to it much later.)

I just find myself disagreeing with this ridiculous blood pact you Leo fans have. Why can't Raphael be the leader for one damn show?

I love how you say "Raph should earn it. But then get thrown under the bus later on." That's basically what you're saying.

[plastroncafe]

I've always been partial to Raph myself, and I'm pretty entertained with what we've seen of him already.

My preferred characterization is strongly influenced by the Mirage books, where Raph has a hard time controlling his emotions, and downshifts towards aggression more often than not.

He's the first one we see cry in Mirage.
He's the first one to openly stab a guy in OT.
The 2k3 theme song talks about how he's he first one to throw a punch.

I haven't seen anything from the new show that makes me feel as though he's "out of character" or off model.

I don't think he'll be a good leader, because of all the reasons listed above, but I like exploring the idea. Goodness knows most incarnations of the character have him FIXATED on how he'd do a better job on his own. So why not go there?

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

I haven't seen anything from the new show that makes me feel as though he's "out of character."

Not that he's out of character but rather his character isn't being utilized enough.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

I love how you say "Raph should earn it. But then get thrown under the bus later on." That's basically what you're saying.

Wtf, don't change the context of my words. It's certainly not the first time I've expressed concern about how they may go about it (given it's what people believe will happen) when a lot was already discussed before you joined in. I may not be overly fond of Raph, but I don't want to see any of the team effed over for the sake of this trend of always needing to twist things up now to "make it new."

And no, I think it's pretty damn stupid that for some reason Leo's role in the group, and very related to his personality traits and skills that even make him an asset and necessary to be there, is somehow regarded as something that should be up for grabs.

I mean, yay, his role now is to act like an annoying butthead and have a magic sword. Fantastic. Hopefully the sword will at least be an aid to the team and not just a special battle move.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Leader Raph and Jokster Leo are here to staaaayyyyyyy.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Leader Raph and Jokster Leo are here to staaaayyyyyyy.

It would be great if this is all set up as character arcs or development. Leo gradually grows into becoming a leader and becomes more serious or headstrong, Raph realizes he's not as interested in being a leader and let's Leo lead the team while developing his street smart skills.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by Dejablue

I just find myself disagreeing with this ridiculous blood pact you Leo fans have. Why can't Raphael be the leader for one damn show?

For the record, there are few bigger Leo fans than I, & I love what they're doing with him so far. His leadership role may historically be the most notable aspect of his overall character, but it doesn't necessarily define him. & he's never been allergic to a sense of humor, either. Bring it on, Rise!

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

It would be great if this is all set up as character arcs or development. Leo gradually grows into becoming a leader and becomes more serious or headstrong, Raph realizes he's not as interested in being a leader and let's Leo lead the team while developing his street smart skills.

That is definetly a possibility, although I am personally leaning towards this show being like the 80s cartoon, where Raphael is very different from his other incarnations, and mostly stayed a sarcastic joker throughout the entire show. He had instances of being angry sure, but that wasn't the core of his character like other versions and its what makes him stand out.

No different here.

[plastroncafe]

Being the leader isn't a personality trait, it's a job description.

[CyberCubed]

I do wonder if the villains we've seen so far will have any real personality, a lot of the Nick monster mutants generally didn't talk and were just monsters to fight, I can see a lot of the mutants in this show being similar.

[Dejablue]

I have to admit the more agitated I get about the way the characters are presented the more I want to see the show. (Though I don't want to contribute to its ratings if its actually a bad show.)

If Raphael is given a leader position, in an ideal world, this would happen in a show where Raphael takes it seriously. Leonardo can easily be the down to earth second in command who can take the lead whenever Raph isn't able to.

And for all of you anal Leo fans who wish death on this show's creators just because Leo isn't the leader, perhaps a compromise where Raphael is the leader of his own team about halfway through the series. Like he can lead the Mutanimals. Of course this would likely lead to friction since the turtles are down one member, but heck, if Raphael thinks he can do it then I'd let him. By the time the show ends he can re-enter the fold. It would just last for 1 arc or a season.

But while he is out with the Mutanimals he has more time to explore his anger issues, maybe come across scenarios where his loneliness can be addressed. Depending on how they are written/their origins, the mutanimals could give Raphael different outlooks on life that he could never get at home.

Right now it feels like Leo and Mikey share the same personality. The "loud jokster" the jury is still out on Donatello but he's just going to be the "Sarcastic jokster" I bet. I thought maybe Don would get the role of "Team Mom", meaning he would end up being the reserved and cautious type. But that is blown out of the water by the fact that he is an adrenaline junky so nevermind!

It really looks like all 4 turtles are the same shade of "wild and crazy" with a different topping for "variety". Mikey is 'cute'. Leo is 'silly' Raphael is 'dumb' and (my guess is-->) Donatello is 'sarcastic with dry wit'.

Nobody is reserved or cautious (lol because kids these days are too ADD to appreciate a calm patient character), which is what a character ensemble typically needs for the sake of diversity. A group where everyone acts the same can get boring.

These are simply my predictions. I hope I'm wrong.