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Old 04-14-2017, 05:24 PM   #1
The Turtle Terminator
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Nightmares Recycled

I'm just wondering if there's anything about this episode (e.g. early script, early character designs/animation) on the Internet
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:26 PM   #2
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Yeah, PL has the entire script on his blog in one of his older posts. Most of it though is just PL criticizing the 4kids writers telling them to change everything or how stupid some things were.
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:28 PM   #3
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Yeah, PL has the entire script on his blog in one of his older posts. Most of it though is just PL criticizing the 4kids writers telling them to change everything or how stupid some things were.
Thanks. You don't have a link for it do you?
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:34 PM   #4
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http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....y-11-2005.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....or-ep-110.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....y-26-2005.html

That episode was much better off being cancelled.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:29 PM   #5
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Yeah, I don't think anyone was dying to see Garbageman get a third episode. Now we can just assume he died/drowned at the bottom of the ocean in his second episode. Heh.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:32 PM   #6
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Well I actually do consider the episode to be canon. We just never got to see it.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:46 PM   #7
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Instead of this ep they should have given Rat King an episode in Season 5. That way they wouldn't have canned it (this ep was scraped because Hun/Garbageman was cojoined brothers at birth) and we would have gotten 13 eps in Season 5.

One of the strangest things about the 4kids series is how underused Rat King was. Since he appeared at the beginning of Season 4 I always thought he'd appear again towards the end of that season and never did. Then when Season 5 had two NY episodes after the trip to Japan, one of them should have been a Rat King ep. Hell, BTTS should have had a Rat King episode too but didn't.
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
Yeah, PL has the entire script on his blog in one of his older posts. Most of it though is just PL criticizing the 4kids writers telling them to change everything or how stupid some things were.
Not the entire script. Quite a few excerpts, though.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:20 PM   #9
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Man I love it whenever someone links PL's blog, I especially love reading those Goldfine emails. I laugh so hard whenever he corrects the writer's grammar or spelling, I don't even think that's part of his job is it? He just does it and that's amazing and I love it

As for the episode itself, idk, if Laird thought it eventually had potential I'd be willing to give it a chance even if I do think the obvious elements of it are a bit... wtf
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:33 PM   #10
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It's kind of funny the way he talks down to professional writers/directors in the animation industry as if they're "beneath him" when he's just an independent comic book artist. It's not like he's any more of a professional than they were. Most of the 4kids writers like Christopher Yost have been in the industry for years and written for dozens of other cartoons.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:54 PM   #11
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Those posts were always hilarious, especially since he was usually right.

Nightmares Recycled..I have mixed feelings about it, on one hand Garbage Man was the worst character in TMNT history and both his appearances were horrible, but when this episode got cancelled we got nothing in exchange so we just lost an episode, and who knows, maybe it could've redeemed the character and made his past appearances be better in hindsight? Then again it was playing hot potato as it could've ruined Hun's character.

I guess if you want to believe the episode still happened it's fine but if you want to ignore that's fine too since it was never made.

I wonder how the season 5 had been if it had had 26 episodes as it was originally meant to before they pulled the plug and moved to Fast Forward. IIRC it was Laird who paid to have it made, same with Turtles Forever. Here at the drome Laird gets a lot of hate but he really did a lot for the franchise.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:06 PM   #12
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I very much get the impression Laird was a huge, huge reason why the 2k3 is as good as it is. That's not to denigrate the effort others did for the show, but without his involvement we'd have gotten probably a far less interesting product.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I wonder how the season 5 had been if it had had 26 episodes as it was originally meant to before they pulled the plug and moved to Fast Forward. IIRC it was Laird who paid to have it made, same with Turtles Forever. Here at the drome Laird gets a lot of hate but he really did a lot for the franchise.
Season 5 was never going to be 26 episodes. It was a 13 episode season from the start. The only reason FF got 26 episodes is because they were rebranding the show with a new title/look.

I don't see why people think Season 5 was ever intended to be longer, they already had to have finished the scripts/episodes long before they started on FF. Nothing in PL's notes/posts ever gave the impression that Season 5 was ever going to be above 13 episodes, and "Nightmares Recycled" was the only ep they worked on that was axed entirely.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:24 PM   #14
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Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I'm pretty sure that as soon as season 5 started it was scrapped to think of a rebranding in which case FF was chosen as the one they all agreed on Playmates/Mirage/4Kids but Laird didn't want S5 scrapped so he salvaged it with his own money for the most part to finish it, so of course they didn't have 26 episodes ready and only around half of that. Remember that FF aired right after S4 there was no wait so it was obvious that production of FF began around the time that S5 would've begun.

This is all from memory so I may have gotten a few details wrong here and there but I remember reading all that drama here and Toon Zone.

And I don't think I"m confusing it with the BTTS drama where Fast Forward season 2 was scrapped for a new idea and they had different concepts including the toddler turtles one and eventually they all decided on BTTS which if we also got to see a few scrapped episode drafts like the Space Usagi one and even then if you look at BTTS you can see that a lot of that season seems to be tweaked FFs2 plots since many of them make more sense in the future than in the present, hence why Karai had a low profile, we had new characters that mirrored FF ones, April acted a bit like Cody and even Serling came to the present since he had no counterpart in the present.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly but I'm pretty sure that as soon as season 5 started it was scrapped to think of a rebranding in which case FF was chosen as the one they all agreed on Playmates/Mirage/4Kids but Laird didn't want S5 scrapped so he salvaged it with his own money for the most part to finish it, so of course they didn't have 26 episodes ready and only around half of that. Remember that FF aired right after S4 there was no wait so it was obvious that production of FF began around the time that S5 would've begun.
No, the last episode of Season 4 directly leads into the Ninja Tribunal arc. All of Season 5 was already in script form before they decided to air FF before it, they just didn't finish animating all the episodes yetr And as I said before, Season 5 was always going to be 13 episodes. There's never been anything PL said or in his notes saying they somehow scraped another 13 episodes.

Quote:
And I don't think I"m confusing it with the BTTS drama where Fast Forward season 2 was scrapped for a new idea and they had different concepts including the toddler turtles one and eventually they all decided on BTTS which if we also got to see a few scrapped episode drafts like the Space Usagi one and even then if you look at BTTS you can see that a lot of that season seems to be tweaked FFs2 plots .
Well this was a different story. We know FF was going to get 10 more episodes, but then axed the idea.
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Old 04-15-2017, 03:43 AM   #16
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Some 10 years ago I asked about this episode from ninjaturtles.com and got the following answers from Dan Berger:


(if the episode is canon?)

"I can't say with absolute authority as that type of decision will be made by Peter Laird and Lloyd Goldfine if/when the characters appear in a future episode. More than likely it won't be part of official continuity since the subject matter was deemed too grim for a children's cartoon series."

(what happened in the episode?)

"Hun runs into the TMNT in a junkyard, but before they can fight, Garbageman shows up in a powerful new robotic suit and captures everyone. Garbageman takes his prisoners back to "Recycle World" (apparently his new realm). When everyone wakes up, Garbageman reveals that Hun and he were conjoined twins - but Hun hired a shady doctor to separate them. Hun left his twin behind, thinking that he would perish - but the doc performed experiments on him and turned him into Garbageman. Thus he's looking for revenge against the TMNT and his brother, Hun, and he drops them onto a conveyor belt that's heading for some giant, spinning blades. Our heroes escape and turn the tables on their foe. Garbageman ends up falling into a vat of acid and gets flushed out to sea by Hun. Hun and the Turtles leave, thinking that Garbageman is dead - but the final scene shows a bubbling slick of acid rising to the water's surface, with something alive within it - so it looks like Garbageman survived the acid bath."

And supposedly Garbageman's real name was never revealed.
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Old 04-15-2017, 04:23 AM   #17
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That plot reminds me of the arc in American Horror Story season 4 where one of the conjoined twins considers having an operation to separate them even knowing it may kill her sister.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:21 AM   #18
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Why couldn't they just be ordinary twins, or brothers instead?
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:44 AM   #19
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Actually, Laird did fund the incomplete episodes to be completed with his own money (when it was scrapped it was incomplete), but it wasn't meant to be more than 13 episodes. Also, FF was rushed to completion in order to be ready to air in time. With the character design more simple and streamlined, the episodes were animated quicker.

I agree that Laird is a big reason for the quality of the series. Another time, he funded the ending of "The King", to more closely (exactly) resemble the comic. The original airing's ending just had Don sitting there in the basement and didn't have the Raph shower scene.
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Old 04-15-2017, 08:55 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan View Post
Why couldn't they just be ordinary twins, or brothers instead?
That's less creepy.
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