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Old 09-06-2019, 05:19 PM   #1
neatoman
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Can Fred Wolf Shredder really be considered the "leader" of the Foot Clan?

Alright so we know that the Foot Clan in FW used to be what it is in most other incarnations, an ancient band of ninjas that continue to this day. Where the Fred Wolf incarnation differs however is that it appears to be almost completely robotic, meaning that the human members have been removed. Since we don't ever see Shredder command any real people aside from some street thugs he sent out to do some petty tasks, it really puts his leadership into question as he's seemingly the only real member left.

In turn this also brings up the question of what the humans did after Shredder replaced them. It's entirely possible, since seemingly none remained, that just went on as usual without him. Which would mean that not only is Shredder's leadership in question, he wouldn't even be part of the Foot Clan at all, but rather some loser with walking tin cans.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:43 PM   #2
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I liked how Tony Day handled that question in his Turtle Turncoat fan comic.
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Old 09-06-2019, 05:55 PM   #3
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In Turtle Tracks, Splinter says that Oroku Saki had turned the Foot Clan into a criminal organisation in Japan and we see the Foot Soldiers telling a pedestrian to stick his hands up. Since that's the ONLY time we see the Foot Soldiers talk in the series, it's fair to assume the ones in Japan were human at first. In fact, Shredder said he didn't get access to advanced technology until he went to USA, where he seems to have met Krang. So I doubt he had a way to build an army of robots back in Japan.

The Foot Clan story in the FW series is inconsistent, since the founder seems to be two different people in the season 4 clip-show episode of the Cur-Li Manouver and then in the season 7 episode where the Turtles and Splinter go to Ancient Japan.

I remember Splinter having documents that prove he's the leader of the Clan in one of he season 3 episode with Zach and Walt. And Shredder really wants to get his hands on them... but he had been living in USA for some years now and wanted to take over the world from NYC with the Technodrome, so why would he care anymore?! What was even the Foot Clan by then? Shredder and a bunch of useless non-sentient robots? Why the need to worry about becoming the leader of an old clan when you can build your own legion of robots and also are partners with an alien brain that ah access to very advanced technology and a death star like fortress?
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Old 09-06-2019, 07:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
In Turtle Tracks, Splinter says that Oroku Saki had turned the Foot Clan into a criminal organisation in Japan and we see the Foot Soldiers telling a pedestrian to stick his hands up. Since that's the ONLY time we see the Foot Soldiers talk in the series, it's fair to assume the ones in Japan were human at first. In fact, Shredder said he didn't get access to advanced technology until he went to USA, where he seems to have met Krang. So I doubt he had a way to build an army of robots back in Japan.
I think the one's in Japan were human as well (when they told the pedestrian to surrender).

What exactly happened to the Foot Clan back in Japan is left to the audience, and there are a variety of possible outcomes.

Perhaps the Japanese branch is still running as usual with Shredder in command, or the remaining human members rebelled against him due to his dishonourable conduct, branching off into their own branch of the Foot Clan.

Either way, I don't think that Shredder really needed Human Foot Soldiers in his conquest of New York, since they cannot be mass produced like robots.

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The Foot Clan story in the FW series is inconsistent, since the founder seems to be two different people in the season 4 clip-show episode of the Cur-Li Manouver and then in the season 7 episode where the Turtles and Splinter go to Ancient Japan.
David Wise actually avoids that supposed continuity error in both episodes, by making Shibano Sama the founder of the teachings that were eventually incorporated into the newly formed Foot Clan by Hamato Koji.

So while Shibano Sama did not form the clan himself, his original teachings are its foundation.
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:47 AM   #5
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As long as he still was in Japan, maybe. Or maybe just for a breakway branch. Later, no.
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Old 09-07-2019, 10:21 AM   #6
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I actually thought that FW Shredder was the leader of the actual clan back in Season 1.
I mean, such a promotion was granted to him after he managed to disgrace Hamato Yoshi.

Oroku got demoted somehow (probably by another 'higher-up' individual that eventually took over the dojo in Saki's home country.) All ties to Oroku Saki's leadership over The Foot were eventually severed.

Therefore, FW Shredder continued to use robotic Foot Soldiers that don the attire of his former clan since.

So, can FW Shredder really be considered to be the leader of the Foot Clan? Well, he thought that he was in his own little world.
At least the IDW comic can tell a better story.

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Old 09-07-2019, 12:41 PM   #7
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I liked how Tony Day handled that question in his Turtle Turncoat fan comic.
How? It's been so long I forgot.
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:54 PM   #8
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Alpha 1 was able to overthrow him as leader that one episode in season 4.
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Old 09-07-2019, 04:54 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DarkFell View Post
I actually thought that FW Shredder was the leader of the actual clan back in Season 1.
I mean, such a promotion was granted to him after he managed to disgrace Hamato Yoshi.
He was probably made leader after Yoshi's exile, because in Splinter's own words: "Oroku Saki is a ninja of the highest rank".
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 09-07-2019, 05:18 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
I think the one's in Japan were human as well (when they told the pedestrian to surrender).

What exactly happened to the Foot Clan back in Japan is left to the audience, and there are a variety of possible outcomes.

Perhaps the Japanese branch is still running as usual with Shredder in command, or the remaining human members rebelled against him due to his dishonourable conduct, branching off into their own branch of the Foot Clan.

Either way, I don't think that Shredder really needed Human Foot Soldiers in his conquest of New York, since they cannot be mass produced like robots.



David Wise actually avoids that supposed continuity error in both episodes, by making Shibano Sama the founder of the teachings that were eventually incorporated into the newly formed Foot Clan by Hamato Koji.

So while Shibano Sama did not form the clan himself, his original teachings are its foundation.
Oh I've never realised that. So he did pay some attention to it after all.

Also, what about Splinter's master who was Yoku's uncle or grandfather or wtv? Where does he fit in all of this?
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:14 PM   #11
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Since we don't ever see Shredder command any real people aside from some street thugs he sent out to do some petty tasks, it really puts his leadership into question as he's seemingly the only real member left.
Good question. It puts into perspective the fraught relationship between him and Krang. The reason over their quarrelling was always because Shredder never felt he was being treated with respect by Krang. It's insecurities over having a lack of power as Krang brought along most of what was needed.

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In turn this also brings up the question of what the humans did after Shredder replaced them. It's entirely possible, since seemingly none remained, that just went on as usual without him.
I think Shredder either killed them or gave them a secret mission to carry on with.

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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
Perhaps the Japanese branch is still running as usual with Shredder in command, or the remaining human members rebelled against him due to his dishonourable conduct, branching off into their own branch of the Foot Clan.
For all we know they could be operating as a series of trainer/sneaker stores.
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Old 09-09-2019, 04:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Prowler View Post
The Foot Clan story in the FW series is inconsistent, since the founder seems to be two different people in the season 4 clip-show episode of the Cur-Li Manouver and then in the season 7 episode where the Turtles and Splinter go to Ancient Japan.
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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
David Wise actually avoids that supposed continuity error in both episodes, by making Shibano Sama the founder of the teachings that were eventually incorporated into the newly formed Foot Clan by Hamato Koji.

So while Shibano Sama did not form the clan himself, his original teachings are its foundation.
Yup, I remember that. David Wise is awsome.

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I think Shredder either killed them or gave them a secret mission to carry on with.
You think he killed them all
That's petty dark.
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Old 09-09-2019, 05:20 PM   #13
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Pretty sure they were still running his Ninja Pizza/Dentist/Video/etc stores. So, basically, fronting the cash for his OTHER endeavors, which apparently included collecting ancient pottery. And some probably went back to Japan to handle business there.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:39 PM   #14
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You think he killed them all
That's petty dark.
When I say secret mission for them to carry out I mean business related to the Foot Clan or something that furthers world domination.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:04 PM   #15
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Season 1

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Pretty sure they were still running his Ninja Pizza/Dentist/Video/etc stores. So, basically, fronting the cash for his OTHER endeavors, which apparently included collecting ancient pottery. And some probably went back to Japan to handle business there.
Only during season 1. But still, it would be interesting to know what happened to Shredder's criminal empire after the Technodrome was sent to Dimension X at the end of Shredder and Splintered.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:47 PM   #16
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Only during season 1. But still, it would be interesting to know what happened to Shredder's criminal empire after the Technodrome was sent to Dimension X[ at the end of Shredder and Splintered.
I assume that it completely disbanded, because Shreddder never uses them again after season 1.

Instead, he goes around intimidating others to help him because he suffers from a lack of assistance in season 2 (from Krang, the foot soldiers, the rock warriors etc.)
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Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87 View Post
The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan View Post
Only during season 1. But still, it would be interesting to know what happened to Shredder's criminal empire after the Technodrome was sent to Dimension X[ at the end of Shredder and Splintered.

I assume it simply kept operating as normal- after all, he could still keep tabs on Earth from Dimension X, even if he could not lead them directly. No reason to think he didn't leave them standing orders in case of his absense/demise/whatever.


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Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo View Post
I assume that it completely disbanded, because Shreddder never uses them again after season 1.

Instead, he goes around intimidating others to help him because he suffers from a lack of assistance in season 2 (from Krang, the foot soldiers, the rock warriors etc.)

There's no real reason why they would have disbanded. Just because they were never featured or discussed, doesn't mean they didn't just continue as normal. They might simply have gone underground, as it were.
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Old 09-11-2019, 05:46 AM   #18
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Shredder and Splintered

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I assume it simply kept operating as normal- after all, he could still keep tabs on Earth from Dimension X, even if he could not lead them directly. No reason to think he didn't leave them standing orders in case of his absense/demise/whatever.
I believe the Technodrome was so damaged at the end of Shredder and Splintered that the portal and all communications on Earth went out of function for a long time. Return of the Shredder would take place right after Krang's rock warriors and Shredder's Foot soldiers have repaired the Technodrome.
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Old Yesterday, 12:08 PM   #19
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You guys ever considered that Shredder's brother arrested them all in the end, maybe one by one?
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