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Old 10-15-2021, 10:39 AM   #861
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That's definitely the implication. They might keep things a little nebulous, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it turns out this is a "some years later" take on the Fred Wolf series.
Also the image gives me an OT vibe. Is it a stretch to wonder if the Brawl game having the OT TMNT is a coincidence? Movie isn't coming out for a while though and the OT are very known to maybe nothing to do with it.

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Old 10-15-2021, 10:54 AM   #862
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That's definitely the implication. They might keep things a little nebulous, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it turns out this is a "some years later" take on the Fred Wolf series.
One point against this would be Seth Rogen's implication that they want to focus on the "teenage" aspect. You can only shoot ahead so many years and retain that.
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Old 10-15-2021, 05:17 PM   #863
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But now I am trying to re-create a unique interpretation that is not too distant from the original franchise that we all know and are familiar with, and also make it fresh.”

To make it new while not jettisoning what made “Ninja Turtles” so beloved, Kassai says, “you anchor yourself enough in the familiar elements of it so that it is easily recognizable but then you either add or enhance some of the existing charm of the franchise.”
Yeah, that's what they all say. What seems to be harder is not being blinded by too many new ideas (esp ones that should be scrapped) and recognizing how to balance that and not go too far with it.

I'm fine if various versions what to bring an addition that might be worth keeping around, but people anymore try to be too grand and ambitious with changing things rather than just adding something good. Stop trying to eff up the Turtles.


Sorry, but that "logo" is atrocious, hope it isn't official. The "Turtles" part is, eh, okay, but paired with the two others just hurts to look at. Three fonts may be the acceptable limit, but those three crammed together... no... no no. Hope it's just what someone tried to throw together for fun. Someone who never had a class that went over font use.

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Old 10-15-2021, 05:52 PM   #864
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One point against this would be Seth Rogen's implication that they want to focus on the "teenage" aspect. You can only shoot ahead so many years and retain that.
Jumping from 15 to, say, 19 would be a big enough jump. Especially since he (stupidly) seems to be likening them to normal human teenagers.
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:09 PM   #865
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We all don't really know what the Next Chapter really means, It could just mean another chapter in a saga that started in 1987 and continues on in present day, But doing a direct sequel to the 1987 turtles would have all the Turtles be adults by this time, and this movie will clearly focus on the teenage aspect of them.

if anything, It could just be a title that doesn't have any meaning, But as a way of saying this is a new TMNT based on the 87 series, But with a modern twist. The original series had the 80s aesthetic, and this movie could apply a modern day twist to the whole thing, Lots of things will still be recognizable in the designs, But made to look as if they are current times.
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Old 10-15-2021, 10:20 PM   #866
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We all don't really know what the Next Chapter really means, It could just mean another chapter in a saga that started in 1987 and continues on in present day, But doing a direct sequel to the 1987 turtles would have all the Turtles be adults by this time, and this movie will clearly focus on the teenage aspect of them.

if anything, It could just be a title that doesn't have any meaning, But as a way of saying this is a new TMNT based on the 87 series, But with a modern twist. The original series had the 80s aesthetic, and this movie could apply a modern day twist to the whole thing, Lots of things will still be recognizable in the designs, But made to look as if they are current times.
No one wants an adult version of the 87 series. A new version where they're adults maybe.
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Old 10-16-2021, 02:58 AM   #867
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No one wants an adult version of the 87 series
Speak for yourself.
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:08 AM   #868
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Speak for yourself.
Of course you do. Well I guess technically Archie is close to that.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:37 AM   #869
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Old 10-16-2021, 03:17 PM   #870
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This animated movie will be inspired by the original series, In the article Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse is one of the animated movies that might be inspired from it, So I could see the animation having that comic book style, They can do the 87 TMNT in that sort of comic book style, It would a lot of vibrant colors like the original series had.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:33 PM   #871
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Would I rather a spiritual follow up to the '87 animated series over the the direction they seemed to be going in were the title characters were mutated humans and in high school? Yes.

Do I want a spiritual follow up to the '87 animated series? No.

I could live with it if there was some guarantee that the live action feature was a more original Mirage comic inspired movie. That way both sides of the fandom are satisfied but frankly I have my doubts a live action movie will come to fruition in the near future and if it does it wont be some lowest common denominator bullsh*t.

Also while I shouldn't be surprised that all at the top cannot let go of their heroine-like addiction to the Fred Wolf show it's strange that they haven't learned from the failure of the last movie which was basically the 80s cartoon in live action that it's not the route to go down. A cgi animated movie is going to be primarily aimed at children and we've seen more than once that trying to hook them in recreating a version of the property from over four decades ago is not hooking them in.

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Old 10-16-2021, 04:37 PM   #872
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Would I rather a spiritual follow up to the '87 animated series over the the direction they seemed to be going in were the title characters were mutated humans and in high school? Yes.

Would do I want a spiritual follow up to the '87 animated series? No.

I could live with it if there was some guarantee that the live action feature was a more original Mirage comic inspired movie. That way both sides of the fandom are satisfied but frankly I have my doubts a live action movie will come to fruition in the near future and if it does it wont be some lowest common denominator bullsh*t.

Also while I shouldn't be surprised that all at the top cannot let go of their heroine-like addiction to the Fred Wolf show it's strange that they haven't learned from the failure of the last movie which was basically the 80s cartoon in live action that it's not the route to go down. A cgi animated movie is going to be primarily aimed at children and we've seen more than once that trying to hook them in recreating a version of the property from over four decades ago is not hooking them in.
What if the story involved the Turtles being turned into humans for a little while, There was this animated short that had the turtles turning into humans and being in High School with April.

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Old 10-16-2021, 05:18 PM   #873
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What if the story involved the Turtles being turned into humans for a little while, There was this animated short that had the turtles turning into humans and being in High School with April.
No thanks.

If this is some spiritual successor to the Fred Wolf show they already did the whole what if the turtles were humans (or at least one of them) and it was one of the most unpopular episodes of the entire 80s series.

We know they skimmed through episodes of the old show for inspiration for Out Of The Shadows and I wouldn't be surprised if that episode was the source of the sub plot of the turtles potentially becoming human. If I'm correct the fact they picked one of the least popular episodes of the show to draw from shows they didn't really get the franchise. That being said ss much as I railed against the inclusion of that particular plot line when I first saw it in the trailer I actually think it was handled fairly well. It had slight shades of X-Men: Class' in its treatment of a similar concept and was one of the better parts of what was an otherwise a terrible movie. The reason why it 'worked' though is because they didn't pull the trigger on turning the turtles human. Not to send one or more of the turtles on a journey to learn they were better as mutants, not as a joke to show the real life human actors.

It's a hokey idea but I'm sure a skilled writer could make the concept work but shouldn't a movie focus on characters and concepts that have reliably worked across the franchise rather than experiment or trying to make previously failed concepts work.
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Old 10-16-2021, 07:04 PM   #874
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Speak for yourself.
Seriously, though? I mean, just to be fair, you're still annoyed about the LAST time someone did a "continuation" of a beloved 80s cartoon show, made by people who never actually watched the original. I don't see one bit how This could possibly be any more satisfying than That was.

After all these 80s restarts that don't quite hit the mark (with some folks, anyway), I think it can now safely be said that if a person wasn't 4-8 years old during those shows' peak years, then that person simply does not "get it", and in turn any attempts to recapture "It" are doomed to be Flanderization at best. And nobody making any of the Big Decisions was 6 years old in 1988. We've seen countless times by now that it's impossible to "recapture the magic" by skimming Wikipedia and watching a few episodes off of a "Best Of" compilation, and then trying to build a new project off of that. And that's why it's best to "leave the memories alone", as it were.
-------------------------

I'm with Galactus in thinking that the last live-action movie should have conclusively proven once and for all that FW TMNT isn't the "magic bullet" to reignite some kind of widespread mainstream passion for the franchise. What puts me into an even more minority opinion position, though, is that I remain quite convinced that there IS no "magic bullet" and that TMNT is officially stumbling clumsily through the final days of its pop culture relevance, never to regain even a shade of its former glory. I mean, when your "big idea" is to just try the LAST failed idea over again and hope everyone's forgotten about it by then, you're officially out of ideas.

I kinda wonder what's more likely at this point: That the powers-that be get SO desperate that they actually try and "revisit" the 1990 movie's aesthetic... or that they just retire the brand outright because not enough people care about it. Of those two options, I sincerely think the latter is the more likely option. Too bad. It's like they all forgot what a big deal it was the ONE time they tried to present TMNT to the mainstream in a way where it WASN'T just fluff and pablum. I mean, they immediately forgot back then, too, since they immediately abandoned that aesthetic forever starting with the sequel... but by now that's like the one thing they HAVEN'T tried.

I can't help but wonder what it is about this franchise that makes the people trying to adapt it for film think - in spite of all evidence - that going goofier, skewing younger, and all that is the best way forward in spite of all evidence to the contrary. One would think that if "Let's make it a little bit goofier each time" hasn't worked, at some point they'd take a swing and say "Let's try to make a more serious version this time" just for the sake of a different approach. I mean, if the definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result... eh, I'unno.
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Old 10-17-2021, 12:52 AM   #875
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I never really thought of Oots as a FW adaptation. It felt more like they just borrowed stuff because they’re popular.

Krang is barely seen and the Technodrome is stopped before it’s rebuilt. Even the turtle van/truck was barely shown in either one. It’s not even a factor. The FW elements were treated so poorly.

Plus people were already put off by the first.

If Next Chapter is in continuity with the FW cartoon I’m sure it’ll do a much better job since that would be the point of them making it instead of just introducing elements in a sequel.

Honestly, seeing the logo has gotten me excited. FW or not.
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Old 10-17-2021, 03:57 AM   #876
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Seriously, though? I mean, just to be fair, you're still annoyed about the LAST time someone did a "continuation" of a beloved 80s cartoon show
More annoyed at how the fans of said continuation treat fans who are not. I would not mind it too much if it were any other type of show either

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I never really thought of Oots as a FW adaptation. It felt more like they just borrowed stuff because they’re popular.

Krang is barely seen and the Technodrome is stopped before it’s rebuilt. Even the turtle van/truck was barely shown in either one. It’s not even a factor. The FW elements were treated so poorly.
This exactly. I mean, I still think OOTS was a fun time, but they were trying to cram a whole season's worth of world building and arcs into a short amount of screen time, and not taking the team to think things through. It was also a course-correction from a franchise that already lacked the courage of it's own convictions in it's first entry.

If the 2K12 Nick show could learn from Turtles Forever with it's crossovers, then the films can learn from the mistakes of OTTS.

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Old 10-17-2021, 06:01 AM   #877
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I agree. Too much course correction from the beginning was really the main problem imo.

I know other movies go through changes during the course of being made. I can accept a lot of things but it’s very apparent in the 2 Bay movies. I guess it was less in Oots but they were just trying to make up for the first one.

I’ll always believe they should have stuck with whatever they wanted to do and how it turned out was just that. Would have been more interesting at least.
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Old 10-17-2021, 05:24 PM   #878
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Also while I shouldn't be surprised that all at the top cannot let go of their heroine-like addiction to the Fred Wolf show it's strange that they haven't learned from the failure of the last movie which was basically the 80s cartoon in live action that it's not the route to go down.
Because, that is the only time when TMNT was super successful?
Look at most reboots / remakes in the recent years - the common thing is that all of them tried to replicate most successful period in the history of the franchise, because, they didn't know what else could they do.

OOTS felt like FW adaptation to me, but it was beholden by mediocrity of the previous movie, as well, as horrible design of the Turtles and general inconsistences with a tone.
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Old 10-17-2021, 06:57 PM   #879
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The problem with relying on FW as the benchmark is that it WAS super-successful... with kids. Kids in 1988. That has practically NO relevance to what would be successful NOW. People who are 6-10 years old in 2021 give less than zero f*cks what their parents liked when they were their age. And there simply aren't enough 40-year olds with a strong nostalgic passion for FW TMNT to pack a theater anymore.

So the Powers-That-Be are stuck in a situation where they're trying to serve two masters with every attempted reboot - the 40-year olds who still care about FW TMNT, and their offspring they may be trying to "nurture" into caring about TMNT. Except that neither of those groups of people is especially large. Especially the kids' market, which is more fickle with shorter attention spans than ever. The little kids who were all-in on the Nick TMNT cartoon, for example, generally don't care about it anymore, they've moved on to other things. They can't even be bothered to be nostalgic for "a little while ago", let alone for a period that was decades before they were born. And this is anecdotal, but most kids I know who were exposed to the FW cartoon thought it was godawful, even if they liked some of the later cartoons. That's just generally how these things work, anyway.

The immediate problem becomes, as we've all heard countless times, "you can't serve two masters" to begin with. You have to decide who you're trying to please and commit to that. But they've been very hesitant to do that, thus far, and every time one of the people up top speaks, they go back and forth about who they're really aiming for with This or That reboot. They're either trying to "grow the audience by attracting new kids" or "giving the old-school fans what they want", depending on the day. And frankly, you can't do both at the same time. It generally doesn't work. It's worked very, very, very rarely, like the more recent MLP reboots, but even then, that's only because the originals were so bad that the franchise had nowhere to go but up. So you really can't compare something like that to something like TMNT which actually had a ton of success and popularity way back when.

Part of the reason why I lean towards the 1990 movie so much as an example of what they ought to try and lean into, is because that's the only example where TMNT ever achieved any sort of TRUE mainstream success, not just with young children. To this day, whenever I show that movie to someone who never saw it, or who thought TMNT was nothing but "stupid kids' stuff", it never fails to mesmerize them. "Holy sh*t, that's actually a 'real' movie!" It was the same back in 1990, when millions of grown-ups who only tolerated the FW cartoon show because their kids were obsessed with it, were legitimately captivated by the live-action film. Otherwise there's no way it would have become the most successful independent movie ever made, nor kept that title for years upon years. If the movie had been like the show was - something parents smiled through gritted teeth at just because their kids were so in love with it - then it absolutely would not have done so well. As evidence of that, we have the sequels, which were loved by children but had MUCH less cross-over appeal with adults and non-fans.

To my way of thinking, that means the 1990 film was the franchise's true peak, because it proved conclusively that TMNT did not need to just be goofy stuff aimed at 6-year olds, that if handled well it could also enrapture their parents, or even win over non-fans. Simply put, NO other iteration of TMNT has ever managed to do that. And thus, if they're sincerely trying to make a movie that both kids and adults in 2021 will enjoy, then their best bet should probably be to go back to the ONLY time that they ever managed to pull that trick successfully. Trying to stick to the blueprint of a cartoon show that was a huge hit with people who were 8 over 30 years ago is questionable if you're sincerely trying to reach a large number of people. Put simply, there's no proof it can even be done.

But they did manage to please "everybody", exactly One Time, and they made a lot of money with it. One would think that, in a situation where all other attempts have failed, they'd look at what went right that One Time and study THAT blueprint instead.

Of course, that would require that the franchise be handled by people with concerns beyond selling action figures. So they're more likely going to just keep fumbling along and wondering why nothing they try actually works.
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Old 10-17-2021, 07:07 PM   #880
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The logo and the title certainly make me feel like this will be some form of soft reboot OT follow up. So MOTU Revelation but a CG movie instead of 2D series and aimed more at kids than the adults who grew up with the show (which would seem counter intuitive for an OT follow up but we're all used to this type of studio logic by now).

Honestly it would be far from the worst thing they have tried with the franchise. I'd place the idea of an animated OT sequel over the ideas behind both the 2014 reboot and Rise.

Personally if I was doing an OT follow up (loose continuity or not) I'd go the MOTU Revelation root and do a series aimed more at adults who grew up with the show. I guess the logic here would be that the OT was the biggest era for TMNT so an update of that aimed at kids might be the best way to get a new audience whilst parents are brought in by making it a "sequel" to what they grew up with. Must admit it would have me far more interested than another 2014 or Rise style reboot would have if this does turn out to be the case.
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