ScreenRant: 11 Ways TMNT Have Strayed From Roots

[PizzaPower1985]

I will always be one fan that points out things like this BUT... I don't agree with the article entirely. The author, Ryan Lynch, kinda poops on the fandom a bit here. It's a bit old, from around the time of the reboot, but still, curious to see your take.


https://screenrant.com/ways-teenage-...ed-from-roots/

[80gmrp]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I will always be one fan that points out things like this BUT... I don't agree with the article entirely. The author, Ryan Lynch, kinda poops on the fandom a bit here. It's a bit old, from around the time of the reboot, but still, curious to see your take.


https://screenrant.com/ways-teenage-...ed-from-roots/

Hmm. Honestly, I keep hearing different stories about whether April was African American in the original Mirage comics. Beyond that technicality, the only major point I disagree with this person about was the color coding: I honestly think that was a good idea for the sake of people distinguishing between them. The rest I can’t say I disagree with, but then, I prefer serious themes in general.

[neatoman]

What exactly Mirage April is meant to look like is somewhat ambigious (although it's probably white). If the intention was to make her black however, it's strange that she isn't as obviously black as Baxter is. She's obviously much more pale and has straighter hair, it's not impossible that's meant to be black of course, it's just that it's so much more obvious with Baxter and it's strange why she would not not be drawn with similar features if that was the case.

[Leo656]

People on this very forum have thoroughly debunked the "April was black" myth numerous times. She wasn't. It's a dead issue, nothing but wishful thinking on the part of certain people. It's one of those things I really wish people would stop bringing up, just because it has no basis in factual reality. Like the "There were really two Ultimate Warriors, the original guy died in 1991 from steroids" thing; you still hear that one come up even though that, too, has been dispelled and put to bed hundreds upon hundreds of times. Some people just really love being the "Well, ACTUALLY..." person and will grab onto anything they can to further that persona, even if it makes them look like an idiot. But anyway, no, yeah, that's been disproven multiple times. But then SR isn't always a good place to get your facts, anyway.

Anyway, not a terrible list, I probably saw it before at one point. Most of it ought to be common knowledge to most people by now... but then again, I still see a lot of people who act like they're "in the know" still spreading falsehoods about the original comics on FB and elsewhere, so who knows, maybe people are just dumb. OR, more likely, they didn't actually read the books but wanna sound smart, so they say things to sound like an authority knowing full well most people won't research them. Like I see tons of people on FB or comments sections saying things like "In the old comics the Turtles were constantly killing people and it was this bloodbath of violence" and really, that's not true. But it's close enough to the truth to become "the truth" among people who don't know any better and aren't going to actually check for themselves.

So yeah, even though most of that stuff SHOULD be common knowledge, there's at least one total falsehood in that list and I do constantly see people stating falsehoods as Fact with regard to the Mirage TMNT, so I guess articles like this are always going to be necessary to some degree. People could definitely stand to be more educated on the roots of the franchise. Although when even the articles that are supposed to "educate" you are full of errors, it kinda goes to show that most people don't care much, I guess.
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I like the colored masks, but mostly because I think all-red is kinda boring, although certain artwork that uses it makes it look appealing. There's really no reason for the masks, anyway, so whether they're all-red or not, I think is a silly thing to get hung up on. But for the purposes of "branding" it definitely made more sense. But I do understand that to some fans, anything that was done "for the sake of the toys" is anathema automatically. But the fact is once you are doing toys, no parent is gonna buy their kid "the same" action figure four times, so the colored masks was definitely a necessity. I'unno, it's a weird thing to get bent over. I kinda like the idea that they sometimes would wear all-red for certain missions or whatever. I don't see why it would have to be one or the other ALL the time.

[neatoman]

Yeah, there really isn't that much to pick a bone with regarding this list beyond black April.

[Leo656]

I remember as a kid being super annoyed that they didn't make movie toys until after the second movie came out. And then that those toys weren't even that great, or at least were far too "cartoony" to accurately represent their film counterparts. I liked 'em, but not enough to buy 'em. Come to think of it, I don't think I ever did buy those. But when the first movie came out, I was really expecting action figures - "Batman" and "Dick Tracy" kinda made you think that was an inevitable - and I was disappointed and confused as to why they didn't come.

Knowing that Playmates themselves were not fans of the movie and didn't want to do merch for it... well, that's very spiteful and stupid and shortsighted on their end, but I kinda get where they were coming from. Still a bad decision.

[neatoman]

Playmates, like all toy companies, have some rather whack priorities. When all the final words are up to them, you get some things that make no sense for plot or character but takes priority none the less.

The reason I would bet they didn't like movie is because it has a total of seven characters they thought could be turned into toys, seven characters that already had toys. Though to be fair, who would want to buy the Danny and Charles action figures?

The following are things in the FW I suspect were decisions by Playmates, simply because it makes sense for a toy company to make such demands:

1. The removal Tang Shen, Nagi and the addition of the Splinter/Yoshi composite is either their's or some approval board's decision. It just stinks of keep light for the kids.
2. I can easily imagine that Krang appears without any Utroms around to make the toy easier to sell. There's a reason the recolored Transformers were marketed as different characters, it's a bit easier to sell than generic characters.
3. Bebop and Rocksteady are well known to have been designed by Peter Laird at their request.
4. It's possible that the Rock Soldiers are modified Triceratons, much for the same reason the Foot Soldiers became robots.
5. The Technodrome is... I mean come on. How the hell was that thing anything but a plug for the eventual toy? I know it came out later but who really thinks it wasn't planned from the start?

I know David Wise claimed to be the guy behind some of this but we know for a fact that he lied about a lot of it. And many of these are so lazily thrown in without proper set-up or so completely unorganic to the story that a writer, even a total hack like Wise, wouldn't write them in like that if they really came up with them themselves.

Even if I were forced to write a screenplay as quickly as possible, I can't imagine that I'd make a bunch of ninjas in modern NYC arbitrarily fly around in a blimp to fight a giant golf ball from space, at least not if it wasn't what I was told to include.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by 80gmrp

Hmm. Honestly, I keep hearing different stories about whether April was African American in the original Mirage comics. Beyond that technicality, the only major point I disagree with this person about was the color coding: I honestly think that was a good idea for the sake of people distinguishing between them. The rest I can?t say I disagree with, but then, I prefer serious themes in general.

Nailed it. That's exactly my feelings too. The idea of April being black is so tired, and I used to hate it, but I have come around on the color coding of the masks for the sake of people distinguishing between them.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by neatoman

I know it came out later but who really thinks it wasn't planned from the start?[/LIST].

Actually, the original Ninja Turtles website used to claim the toy Technodrome as being released in 1988

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988.htm

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988/techno.htm

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Actually, the original Ninja Turtles website used to claim the toy Technodrome as being released in 1988

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988.htm

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988/techno.htm

If that's correct then it's confirmed that David Wise did not come up with the Technodrome, not that it wasn't a safe assumption to begin with.

[Leo656]

I heard that David Wise also took credit for giving Scott Levy/Johnny Polo the Raven gimmick, advising Kevin Nash that 7-footers don't do leapfrogs, and telling DDP that chewing gum AND a cigar at the same time might be a little too much gimmick, Brother.

When confronted with the fact that most people attribute those things to DDP, Bill Watts, and Hulk Hogan respectively, Wise allegedly replied, "Those guys all eat sh*t."

I mean, I wasn't in the room or anything, it's just what I heard.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I heard that David Wise also took credit for giving Scott Levy/Johnny Polo the Raven gimmick, advising Kevin Nash that 7-footers don't do leapfrogs, and telling DDP that chewing gum AND a cigar at the same time might be a little too much gimmick, Brother.

When confronted with the fact that most people attribute those things to DDP, Bill Watts, and Hulk Hogan respectively, Wise allegedly replied, "Those guys all eat sh*t."

I mean, I wasn't in the room or anything, it's just what I heard.

Wise was a television animation writing genius. That said, he had gotten very glory-hoggish in his later years regarding TMNT...


His claim that "Eastman and Laird created the turtles, but I made them popular. The turtles are mine.", may or may not be true, BUT it's not very humble. His ideas (if they were his) were very outlandish, even more so than the original Mirage concepts. I just think he could have been less of a jerk and maybe before he passed, could have at least thanked Kevin and Peter for the career enhancement and opportunities he got from TMNT. All the show writers should have done that by now.

[mikey0]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Actually, the original Ninja Turtles website used to claim the toy Technodrome as being released in 1988

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988.htm

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/toys/1988/techno.htm

Playmates Toys had an illustration of an inflatable Technodrome in their 1988 toy catalog.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I like the colored masks, but mostly because I think all-red is kinda boring, although certain artwork that uses it makes it look appealing. There's really no reason for the masks, anyway, so whether they're all-red or not, I think is a silly thing to get hung up on. But for the purposes of "branding" it definitely made more sense. But I do understand that to some fans, anything that was done "for the sake of the toys" is anathema automatically. But the fact is once you are doing toys, no parent is gonna buy their kid "the same" action figure four times, so the colored masks was definitely a necessity. I'unno, it's a weird thing to get bent over. I kinda like the idea that they sometimes would wear all-red for certain missions or whatever. I don't see why it would have to be one or the other ALL the time.

For something like going on missions, I guess it probably would make a little more sense to see them all wear black masks since they operate at night. Though some will probably accuse them for being "too similar to Batman."

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

For something like going on missions, I guess it probably would make a little more sense to see them all wear black masks since they operate at night. Though some will probably accuse them for being "too similar to Batman."

I once had the idea of swapping the orange and purple mask for white and black to better reflect traditional Westernized kung fu/ninja fiction... But they laughed at me, called me names, flogged me and covered me in chicken feathers, after screaming "SLASH wears the black mask, save it for the villain". It was just a suggestion. (no, nobody here is really that mean or maybe I am just sadistic and like the idea of flogging and feathering???)

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

For something like going on missions, I guess it probably would make a little more sense to see them all wear black masks since they operate at night. Though some will probably accuse them for being "too similar to Batman."

But I mean, why not, though, right? People change their clothes. And Raphael stayed in his black wrestling costume for quite a long time in the Archie books, so there's canon precedent for them changing their clothes when the mood strikes them.

I prefer a very minimalist look for the TMNT, so I don't love the idea of a million different "looks" necessarily, but I wouldn't have a problem if they had colored masks, red masks, black masks, all for different reasons. Like maybe the colored masks would be their "Business Casual" look, the all-black masks would be for stealth, and the all-red would be like, "We're comin' for blood", that sorta thing. That's something I might do if I were booking it. Why not?

Like, a strong case can be made for one or the other, but does it really HAVE to be one or the other? I know they represent different aspects of TMNT to different fans, but why does it have to be an all or nothing deal? Why can't they mix it up? They're valid either way. They're just masks, they shouldn't be such a dividing line among the fanbase as they are. It's rather silly, y'know?

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by Leo656

But I mean, why not, though, right? People change their clothes. And Raphael stayed in his black wrestling costume for quite a long time in the Archie books, so there's canon precedent for them changing their clothes when the mood strikes them.

I prefer a very minimalist look for the TMNT, so I don't love the idea of a million different "looks" necessarily, but I wouldn't have a problem if they had colored masks, red masks, black masks, all for different reasons. Like maybe the colored masks would be their "Business Casual" look, the all-black masks would be for stealth, and the all-red would be like, "We're comin' for blood", that sorta thing. That's something I might do if I were booking it. Why not?

Like, a strong case can be made for one or the other, but does it really HAVE to be one or the other? I know they represent different aspects of TMNT to different fans, but why does it have to be an all or nothing deal? Why can't they mix it up? They're valid either way. They're just masks, they shouldn't be such a dividing line among the fanbase as they are. It's rather silly, y'know?

Yeah I hear ya. I wouldn't want them to be decked out in clothing but I wouldn't mind switching back in forth between the multi-colored, red, and black masks. It really just depends on the context or situation like you said. If it's hard to tell them apart then make their weapons visible. On a side note, I also would prefer them to wear either the same or different colored masks as opposed to changing their body shapes in order to "make them stand out." I know it's just fiction but if they're the same breed of turtles, I find it needless. I guess it was fine in the Nick cartoon but when they started doing it in other versions, it's a case where they're trying too hard. A bit excessive, imo.

Regarding this article, I think some fans just want to believe what they want to believe and it's frustrating sometimes. I wish some people would either do their research or just read a damn comic, physical or digital.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

The Turtles looked good in the black masks when they were brainwashed in that Back to the Sewer episode and became members of the foot

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Oh I forgot about that. So 2k3 technically did it first.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

On a side note, I also would prefer them to wear either the same or different colored masks as opposed to changing their body shapes in order to "make them stand out." I know it's just fiction but if they're the same breed of turtles, I find it needless. I guess it was fine in the Nick cartoon but when they started doing it in other versions, it's a case where they're trying too hard. A bit excessive, imo.

Yeah, I don't dig that, myself. One of the things I love about the 1990 movie is that they're all pretty close to identical, if you squint, but once you look closely you can see all the little subtle, yet distinctive differences between them, in their faces and body type - Raph having a wider face and being just a little bit more stocky than the others, Mikey having a leaner torso than the others, the shape of each one's eyes, etc., things like that. They're all very small things but they collectively become MORE than enough to tell each of them apart rather easily, even when you can't see their straps or weapons. Just by the faces you can tell who's who, and if you're REALLY good, you can tell by the shape and width of their torso, but that's a bit tougher.

For proof of this, just take a look at the novelization of the 1990 film. It's full of black-and-white photographs - some of which were of deleted scenes, which is pretty cool - but it's remarkably easy to tell which Turtle is which without any trouble whatsoever. Even as a kid I was able to easily pick out all that stuff, and I thought it was awesome... especially because it wasn't overblown and overdone, like making Donnie a lanky nerd with glasses and such, or Raph a big hulking bruiser. I haaaaaaate that sh*t.

Point being, you really don't HAVE to go overboard in making them distinctive, it's just that some people who make those decisions think that the audience is really, really stupid. I'm alright with small differences in height or body type or head shape, but that's really all you need.