DC Relaunching AGAIN

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I did hear though that at the time everybody and their mother wanted to do Joker stories and they needed to tone that done to not overuse the character.

Nowadays, I think he's overused, and overrated.

Like, I recognize that he's an important villain, and basically Batman's 'arch-nemesis' (in the eyes of the public and the fandom too). But...Batman has one of the best, most diverse, most rich rogues galleries in all of fiction.

...And people just want to write about how the Joker tore his own face off to use as a mask, and went off to kill bajillions or whatever. I think they just recently did a 'Joker Wars' arc in the comics, and what I read about that... Ugh.

[Leo656]

The last "really good" Joker story I can remember was the f*cking "Robin II" mini-series. And even that one is super-dated with all of its "Computers are Magic!" plot.

After that... I remember more strong Joker "moments", not so much "stories". Most of the stories centered around him specifically have been... pretty bad.

I mean, I really liked "Reign of Emperor Joker" but that one is pretty hit-or-miss with a lot of folks, too. So yeah, there's Robin II, and that one, and... that's about it.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

The last "really good" Joker story I can remember was the f*cking "Robin II" mini-series. And even that one is super-dated with all of its "Computers are Magic!" plot.

Yes, but it sure was a fun read. I miss 90s comics so damn much. And Tim being Robin, yeah.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Robin is always controversial because too many people see the character as a "cheesy relic of the Golden/Silver Age" rather than "the thing that keeps Bruce sane, a reminder of the more idealistic person he used to be and the entire reason he became Batman in the first place".

Stories like "A Lonely Place of Dying" and BvS illustrate what becomes of a Batman without a Robin. He just sinks deeper and deeper into "the war" and becomes consumed by violence and trauma because he has no tether anymore to his more idealistic side. He absolutely needs Robin for balance.

Too many people do not understand this, and they outspokenly hate the character and even the concept, and so a lot of media go to great lengths to downplay or ignore the Robin character because they know if they include him they will be mocked and criticized for it. Go anywhere on the internet, and you'll be inundated with comments about how "Robin is Stupid, Batman works best as an angry loner." That's them projecting, and it says more about them than it does the character(s).

Just noticed this comment, and man. THANK YOU. Because yes, Batman needs Robin. And honestly, I find Batman without a supporting cast much more boring. I mean, Alfred and Jimmy John () help, but I really like the Batfamily's interactions with him more. Like, I tend to be forgiving at the beginning of stuff when he's starting out, and is solo like in most of the movies. But as it goes on, my expectation is for Batman to gain sidekicks, and he rarely does outside of cartoons. Sucks.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Yes, but it sure was a fun read. I miss 90s comics so damn much. And Tim being Robin, yeah.

Detective Comics#833/834 'Trust' is an excellent story by Paul Dinii and so is 'Greetings from Gotham' by Peter J. Tomasi is also an excellent one and done story. I do agree overall that Joker is overused and overanalyzed with rare excellent stories since the string of excellent Bronze Age stories.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Yes, but it sure was a fun read. I miss 90s comics so damn much. And Tim being Robin, yeah.

Tim's always gonna be my favorite. For one, he had the best Robin outfit. And it was nice that his origin wasn't (originally) steeped in trauma, but pure altruism. He simply wanted to help Batman be a better hero again, he didn't even especially want to be Robin.

It took a lot for people to accept a Robin again after the Jason ordeal, but the way they handled Tim went a long way in repairing the damage. They pretty much went out of their way to correct every mistake they'd ever made in writing Jason. That was nice.

I mean, Dick is fine but it's not like he could've stayed Robin forever. And he can't get to be Batman until Bruce dies, so I'm all about Nightwing. It lets him be his own character without being solely defined as Batman-adjacent, while still actually being Batman-adjacent.

Jason was... Jason, and I've never liked Damien at all. So for me, Tim will always be the best Robin.

As evidence, he was the first and only one to get his own book while he was in the role.
---------

All they've ever done with Joker for the last 20 years is "Let's make him even crazier than the last time!" and that sh*t gets old fast. Like I alluded to, he had some good moments in the Black Glove/R.I.P. stuff but that story wasn't "about" him, he was just in it.

[MikeandRaph87]

You know what I think. It's Dick Grayson easily. He created the role and will not be surpassed. He is Bruce's successor and greatest success. Dick works best as a part of a team and I enjoy reading him as either Batman or Robin. As Nightwing there is not solid direction with him as taking him from Gotham in the mid 80s', the whole identity reveal and secret agent, Ric Grayson. I know the argument of growing on his own, but it has been shown that he has great dynamics with other characters like Bruce, Barbara, Alfred, Wally, and others. He is not Robin or Batman and just seems to be in-between. Its the legacy character problem. If Dick is one half of the Dynamic Duo I will buy the book. The callbacks and relationships are what are making the current run on Nightwing a success.

It would be great to cut back on Batfamily members though I accept that I can't get just Bruce/ Dick/ Barbara.


Also, the next Batman team has a teaser out. Looks like you Tim Drake fans will be getting something along with
The Penguin and Clayface (Karlo?) and more overuse of Joker.
https://www.cbr.com/batman-125-trail...ge-jimenez-dc/

[Coola Yagami]

I never got the full deal of the Joker getting his face cut off by the Dollmaker. The Dollmaker never amounted to anything. And the whole deal where Batman was now paranoid that the Joker could now strike anywhere, at any time, as anyone never came to fruition because when he did come back he clearly came back as the Joker and not some rando with a surprise reveal.

And I'm also confused on the timeline. Like, Joker came back with his old face stapled onto himself but then you had the loon Joker's Daughter running around with Joker's old face stapled on herself. Like... whatever became of her? Did Joker find her, kill her and get his face back?

Anyways one of my classic Joker stories was his return after Death in the Family where there was a fake Joker running around committing crimes. Having been nearly shot to death at the end of Death in the Family, Joker realized 'hey, I can really die doing this stuff' and 'holy ****, getting shot really hurts', and it just so happens that his night back in action, he got shot again.

So now the radio is blasting news that the other Joker was now challenging Batman to the same chemical plant that started it all, the real Joker is struggling with his own mortality as well as the need to go clear his name.

"I don't want to!!!!" *angrily kicks the radio off the table* "But I have to! I have to!!"

I'll always remember that scene.

The Joker can be crazy all you want, but a tad of humanity, or vulnerability helps rather than just 'I'm an agent of chaos and I secretly want to **** Batman' like they portray him nowadays.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

You know what I think. It's Dick Grayson easily. He created the role and will not be surpassed. He is Bruce's successor and greatest success. Dick works best as a part of a team and I enjoy reading him as either Batman or Robin. As Nightwing there is not solid direction with him as taking him from Gotham in the mid 80s', the whole identity reveal and secret agent, Ric Grayson. I know the argument of growing on his own, but it has been shown that he has great dynamics with other characters like Bruce, Barbara, Alfred, Wally, and others. He is not Robin or Batman and just seems to be in-between. Its the legacy character problem. If Dick is one half of the Dynamic Duo I will buy the book. The callbacks and relationships are what are making the current run on Nightwing a success.

Dick had 40 years as Robin and that all ended over 40 years ago. There is such a thing as spending too much time living in the past. And that's waaaaaaaaay in the past.

Bruce Wayne is never getting killed off for good, either, unless sales on the Batman books plummet and there's any indication that a Batman that isn't Bruce will be accepted by the mainstream. Seeing as how fast they brought him back from the "dead" after giving Dick the role for a while, I'm gonna say people aren't there yet; I figure if the books with Dick as Batman sold better, they wouldn't have brought Bruce back as soon as they did, because as it is that felt very abrupt. It was inevitable that Bruce would be back, but it felt like he was barely gone five minutes and that his return was a "panic button" thing. So while Dick is my preferred pick to take over the Batman job one day "for reals"... it probably won't happen. Not for a long time, anyway.

So. He's a 20-something man and can't be Robin, because that's patently ridiculous. And he's not gonna be Batman until the general audience shows they'll accept him as that, which so far they haven't. So that can't happen either.

Tough rocks, pal, he's Nightwing. I don't look at it like some kind of aimless holding pattern, that's DiDio talk. Don't be like DiDio, man. It's more him being his own man, and not an appendage or a stand-in, the way I see it. He shouldn't JUST have to be Bruce's "little buddy" or his "one day" replacement; that diminishes Dick Grayson. He exists just fine in-between those two extremes.

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Anyways one of my classic Joker stories was his return after Death in the Family where there was a fake Joker running around committing crimes. Having been nearly shot to death at the end of Death in the Family, Joker realized 'hey, I can really die doing this stuff' and 'holy ****, getting shot really hurts', and it just so happens that his night back in action, he got shot again.

So now the radio is blasting news that the other Joker was now challenging Batman to the same chemical plant that started it all, the real Joker is struggling with his own mortality as well as the need to go clear his name.

"I don't want to!!!!" *angrily kicks the radio off the table* "But I have to! I have to!!"

I'll always remember that scene.

That story was pretty good, although it started better than it ended. The ending felt just a little bit flat, to me, and Batman's rage at what happened to Jason was barely even referenced or registered when he finally came face-to-face with the Joker again, and you'd think it would after like two years of build. That moment should have been a much bigger deal than it was, and instead it all just got glossed over and resolved very quickly. One of those "It feels like they ran out of pages and needed to wrap it up in a hurry" kind of things.

Other than that, though, it was really good.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Dick had 40 years as Robin and that all ended over 40 years ago. There is such a thing as spending too much time living in the past. And that's waaaaaaaaay in the past.

Bruce Wayne is never getting killed off for good, either, unless sales on the Batman books plummet and there's any indication that a Batman that isn't Bruce will be accepted by the mainstream. Seeing as how fast they brought him back from the "dead" after giving Dick the role for a while, I'm gonna say people aren't there yet; I figure if the books with Dick as Batman sold better, they wouldn't have brought Bruce back as soon as they did, because as it is that felt very abrupt. So while Dick is my preferred pick to take over the Batman job one day "for reals"... it probably won't happen.

So. He's a 20-something man and can't be Robin, because that's patently ridiculous. And he's not gonna be Batman until the general audience shows they'll accept him as that, which so far they haven't. So that can't happen either.

Tough rocks, pal, he's Nightwing. I don't look at it like some kind of aimless holding pattern, that's DiDio talk. Don't be like DiDio, man. It's more him being his own man, and not an appendage or a stand-in, the way I see it. He shouldn't JUST have to be Bruce's "little buddy" or his "one day" replacement; that diminishes Dick Grayson. He exists just fine in-between those two extremes.

Kind of a shame. I did so enjoy the DickBats and Damian Robin stories, but as usual, whenever we have a big shakeup to the status quo, like the Superior Spider-Man or LadyThor's first run, it's usually about a year before things go back to status quo. Even S-He-Hulk went back to being hot again recently.

I'm still waiting for Alfred to come back. I know they're playing it serious now, but he has to come back sooner or later.

I think one of the things with Dick Robin was that most of his stories took place in the goofy silly era, and by the time most people around out age got into comics in the 80's or so, it was Jason. Hell, I was confused the first time I got a Batman comic with Robin in it and Batman called him Jason. "But the Adam West show called him Dick Grayson?". It didn't help that at the time, Jason was pretty much a Dick clone. At least Tim was different looking enough and got a redone Robin outfit and the staff.

Even though a lot of people hated the New 52, I remember the original plan was to make it a new jumping on point for new readers that wouldn't know the 50+ year backstory. The screwy part was them rebooting everyone except Batman (and Green Lantern) and cramming his entire history into 5 years. I was kinda looking forward to them doing some new modern less golden age Batman and Dick-Robin stories, but no, somehow Bruce still had Damian and his Bat-Family despite everyone else starting over.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Dick had 40 years as Robin and that all ended over 40 years ago. There is such a thing as spending too much time living in the past. And that's waaaaaaaaay in the past.

Bruce Wayne is never getting killed off for good, either, unless sales on the Batman books plummet and there's any indication that a Batman that isn't Bruce will be accepted by the mainstream. Seeing as how fast they brought him back from the "dead" after giving Dick the role for a while, I'm gonna say people aren't there yet; I figure if the books with Dick as Batman sold better, they wouldn't have brought Bruce back as soon as they did, because as it is that felt very abrupt. It was inevitable that Bruce would be back, but it felt like he was barely gone five minutes and that his return was a "panic button" thing. So while Dick is my preferred pick to take over the Batman job one day "for reals"... it probably won't happen. Not for a long time, anyway.

So. He's a 20-something man and can't be Robin, because that's patently ridiculous. And he's not gonna be Batman until the general audience shows they'll accept him as that, which so far they haven't. So that can't happen either.

Tough rocks, pal, he's Nightwing. I don't look at it like some kind of aimless holding pattern, that's DiDio talk. Don't be like DiDio, man. It's more him being his own man, and not an appendage or a stand-in, the way I see it. He shouldn't JUST have to be Bruce's "little buddy" or his "one day" replacement; that diminishes Dick Grayson. He exists just fine in-between those two extremes.



That story was pretty good, although it started better than it ended. The ending felt just a little bit flat, to me, and Batman's rage at what happened to Jason was barely even referenced or registered when he finally came face-to-face with the Joker again, and you'd think it would after like two years of build. That moment should have been a much bigger deal than it was, and instead it all just got glossed over and resolved very quickly. One of those "It feels like they ran out of pages and needed to wrap it up in a hurry" kind of things.

Other than that, though, it was really good.

I notice a lot of the comics were like that back then. Most of the time, the bad guys are 100% no match for Batman, so the real challenge is getting Batman there. Surviving the gauntlet, avoiding traps, solving the mystery behind the evil scheme, but once Batman finds you, he usually tackles you down or knocks you out with one punch and that's a wrap.

Whenever we get more of a drawn-out fight or the plot has a lot of stuff to go through, it does get kinda rushed during the last pages.

I like how Batman and Gordon decided to arrest the Joker by the book despite their urges to just kill him, and Joker is still poking the bears saying 'I'd kill me if I were me'.

Like that's pretty much running into a bear, being lucky enough it just ignores you and walks away and then you decide to throw a rock at it.

[Leo656]

Yeah, as iconic as Dick is as Robin since he was the first, his version suffers from the fact that his entire tenure was during the era where Batman was f*cking terrible.

Not ALL of the stories were "bad" but all of it was just too goofy to ever fly or be taken seriously today. There's been a few modern stories that are "flashbacks" to Dick as Robin that portray things much more seriously, but... they're few and far between. Between the awful 50s/60s comics and the Adam West show, Dick's version of Robin is irreparably tarnished. Which isn't the character's fault. It's just the way he was portrayed in that era, which is what most people are familiar with. By the time Batman comics finally got "serious" (read: "good"), he was only Robin in Teen Titans anymore, so the only stories where Dick's Robin isn't a complete goof were in THAT book, not with Batman.

It really doesn't matter that he was the first. Except for his origin and subsequent retellings of it, there just aren't any truly good stories with Dick as Robin, outside of Teen Titans. He had the misfortune of existing in the "comics are only for 6-year olds" era. Not the character's fault, it just is what it is.

I mean if you talk to a neophyte, and try to explain to them that Batman's little buddy from the Adam West TV show would technically go on to be one of the biggest badasses in the entire DCU as a solo act, people would think you were smoking crack. "THAT guy?! F*ck outta here, he's too busy shavin' his legs to beat up bad guys."

Teen Titans Robin was perfectly fine, but... that was for like 5 minutes, and then he was Nightwing. He wasn't even Batman's sidekick anymore by then, they were in a rough patch and barely speaking most of the time. So it was kind of an awkward phase. It made sense to give him a new persona; if he wasn't Batman's sidekick, he really didn't make sense as "Robin", anymore.
------------

Jason's revamped "street kid" origin was a huge improvement over the original "Dick Grayson Clone" we originally got stuck with (how many goddamn circuses does Gotham even have?). So that helped; even though by losing the "circus kid" origin, the revamped continuity never really explained where Killer Croc came from, but that's a whole other thing.

I kind of liked how Bruce had Jason in Dick's old outfit, though; for one thing, DC had lunchboxes to sell and it helped them do that better if Dick and Jason were identical. But in a less cynical, more story-driven sense, I looked at it as Bruce kind of spitefully poking at Dick for "leaving him". Later stories went into greater detail about how badly Dick leaving affected Bruce, up to how he rushed Jason through training and made him Robin way before he was ready partly out of hurt feelings and spite, which is partly why he felt so incredibly guilty about Jason's death. He made Jason Robin in part, whether overtly or subconsciously, as a message to Dick; "See? I'm over you, asshole, I got a new little buddy." Because Bruce can be INCREDIBLY petty like that, sometimes, and it always comes back to bite him in the ass. So Jason having the same costume as Dick was reflective of that whole deal.

Tim getting his own suit, meanwhile, was symbolic that Bruce had not only learned from his mistakes with Jason, but had moved on from Dick and accepted him as his own man, and further, accepted TIM as his own individual, as well. It was clear that he wasn't going to force Tim into being a clone of Dick, the way he had with Jason. So the new suit symbolized a lot more than "Get ready to buy a new action figure". Y'know what I mean?
-----------

Not only were the Nightwing parts of the "Arkham Knight" game very, very cool - especially the "tag team" fights where you get to play as both Batman and Nightwing, switching between the two mid-fight, that sh*t was awesome - but I loved all the ambient chatter you'd hear from the criminals as you were gliding around the City. They really put Nightwing over huge.

"Nightwing's in town?! Ah, geez... I left Bludhaven to get AWAY from that guy!"

"Nightwing? So What?"
"Hey, that kid'll kick the living CRAP outta you! ...He's just not as scary as Batman."

I loved that stuff. Very slick. The bad guys in that game were pretty much just as scared of him as they were of Batman, and that's always nice to see.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I kind of liked how Bruce had Jason in Dick's old outfit, though; for one thing, DC had lunchboxes to sell and it helped them do that better if Dick and Jason were identical. But in a less cynical, more story-driven sense, I looked at it as Bruce kind of spitefully poking at Dick for "leaving him". Later stories went into greater detail about how badly Dick leaving affected Bruce, up to how he rushed Jason through training and made him Robin way before he was ready partly out of hurt feelings and spite, which is partly why he felt so incredibly guilty about Jason's death. He made Jason Robin in part, whether overtly or subconsciously, as a message to Dick; "See? I'm over you, asshole, I got a new little buddy." Because Bruce can be INCREDIBLY petty like that, sometimes, and it always comes back to bite him in the ass. So Jason having the same costume as Dick was reflective of that whole deal.

Yep, thank you. Bruce did the same thing with Tim when he replaced him with Stephanie (yes, she counts). Same pattern of behavior that led to both Robins' 'deaths' (it was super lame with Steph, though, and too 'on the nose' for my liking...but that's what DC was going for back then for some reason).

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Detective Comics#833/834 'Trust' is an excellent story by Paul Dinii and so is 'Greetings from Gotham' by Peter J. Tomasi is also an excellent one and done story. I do agree overall that Joker is overused and overanalyzed with rare excellent stories since the string of excellent Bronze Age stories.

Yeah, read both of those long ago.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by superstaff

Yep, thank you. Bruce did the same thing with Tim when he replaced him with Stephanie (yes, she counts). Same pattern of behavior that led to both Robins' 'deaths' (it was super lame with Steph, though, and too 'on the nose' for my liking...but that's what DC was going for back then for some reason).

Sometimes I wonder if anyone else gets this stuff?

Like I'm not honestly shocked that we both "get it", but I wonder if most other people would just be like, "...You nerds are overthinking this sh*t."

I mean, I absolutely do overthink the hell out of this sh*t, I cop to that. But I mean, it was pretty overt to me as an 8-year old, too. I just wonder how many other people read it that way.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Sometimes I wonder if anyone else gets this stuff?

Like I'm not honestly shocked that we both "get it", but I wonder if most other people would just be like, "...You nerds are overthinking this sh*t."

I mean, I absolutely do overthink the hell out of this sh*t, I cop to that. But I mean, it was pretty overt to me as an 8-year old, too. I just wonder how many other people read it that way.

There's people out there who thinks Batman should be a 'lone wolf like he used to be'.



Ah, yes, a lone wolf like he was for about one year in 1939 when he was created. Thank you, comic book experts! What ever would we do without your expertise!?

To be fair, I guess, he's had solo stories, of course, but for basically nearly the entirety of his career, he had a Robin and/or other sidekicks in existence. I think a lot of these guys take their knowledge from the movies (specifically Burton and Nolan), and think Batman is some edgy loner weirdo that retreats to the ole cave to talk to bats.

[Leo656]

Haha, words right outta my mouth.

I mean it's not like he needs his sidekick du jour constantly hanging around up his ass like an inseparable appendage. It's just that they should at least be generally acknowledged and included. They're important.

[MikeandRaph87]

I looked at the Road to Dark Crisis. It is doing one thing right. I like to read Dick Grayson, Barbara Gordon, Hal Jordan, and Wally West. Each of them shared an extended scene with a Diverse Replacement of The World character and it showcased a meta conversation about the revolving door of death and its limitations.

Though, why is Stephanie Brown and Jason Todd wearing a Bat symbol? Brown was referred to as Batgirl. I thought she was Spoiler, but under Barbara's direction. Also, Nocturna is dusted off from Moench's first run and knows everyone's real name?

I assume trying to 'help us accept' these replacements they are working with those that we actually love. Not going to support the title only keep tabs on it and hopefully Barbara will get a role as well.

[superstaff]

Originally Posted by MikeandRaph87

Though, why is Stephanie Brown and Jason Todd wearing a Bat symbol? Brown was referred to as Batgirl. I thought she was Spoiler, but under Barbara's direction.

She and Cassandra are Batgirls again. I think Tiffany Fox is too. They have multiple people running around as Robins and Batgirls now. I don't like that idea at all, personally. I actually like Steph and Cass as Batgirl, but not having multiple Batgirls at the same time.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

Kind of a shame. I did so enjoy the DickBats and Damian Robin stories, but as usual, whenever we have a big shakeup to the status quo, like the Superior Spider-Man or LadyThor's first run, it's usually about a year before things go back to status quo. Even S-He-Hulk went back to being hot again recently.

I'm still waiting for Alfred to come back. I know they're playing it serious now, but he has to come back sooner or later.

I think one of the things with Dick Robin was that most of his stories took place in the goofy silly era, and by the time most people around out age got into comics in the 80's or so, it was Jason. Hell, I was confused the first time I got a Batman comic with Robin in it and Batman called him Jason. "But the Adam West show called him Dick Grayson?". It didn't help that at the time, Jason was pretty much a Dick clone. At least Tim was different looking enough and got a redone Robin outfit and the staff.

Even though a lot of people hated the New 52, I remember the original plan was to make it a new jumping on point for new readers that wouldn't know the 50+ year backstory. The screwy part was them rebooting everyone except Batman (and Green Lantern) and cramming his entire history into 5 years. I was kinda looking forward to them doing some new modern less golden age Batman and Dick-Robin stories, but no, somehow Bruce still had Damian and his Bat-Family despite everyone else starting over.

Johns got 20 additional issues to finish what he was in the midst of then while good it was not great, we got Hal the long haired space fugitive/martyr of the Corps and the Relic thing with the draining from an emotional resvoir was weird even from comic sense. Hal Jordan and The Green Lantern Corps was pretty good though and it allowed for four different Green Lanterns to play off of each other and those of us who support a certain Lantern can learn to appreciate the others. Nothing was ever done with Saint Walker and The Blue Lantern Corps unforunately.

As for Batman, I grew up with Batman:TAS (I didn't get WB! at that time so I didn't see the last season) and the Burton/Schumacher films so I was among the last seeing Bruce/Dick/Barbara as the Guardians of Gotham. Like most I look at the comics and notice its not like what is on the big and little screens. I found most of the animated series and its greatness was derived from writers of Batman in the 1970s' and that is what helped define my taste as far as character sets, designs, and tone. However, continuity was only in its early stages and arcs were few. What would this endless Bat epics or Crisises beyond the Justice League of America volume one title look like is what I wanted to see. World's Finest is finally giving me that. Of all the Bat books out there this is it.

Batman had two Silver Age phases. One from 1957-1963, this one was over avertly silly with harmless aliens and costume variants to inspire Kenner along with proto-Elseworlds not to mention inserting in the Kanes to prove that Bruce and Dick were straight. Then 1964- on was more grounded and focused on costumed criminals or mob figures and detective work. This era saw the revivial of The Riddler and Scarecrow and introduction of Barbara Gordon and Poison Ivy. The period was not campy in the way the television show was. Some of the detective focused stories would be a bit bizarre such as The Man Who Quit The Human Race, Bruce's roomate in college turned senator was turning into an evolved human. However, a few years later would have Batman extraditing a serial killer only to stumble across a group of circus freaks and a 'who dunnit' and the witness is a hybrid human seal named 'Flippy'. Every era has its ridiculous stories to this day. So Dick did not neccessaily have the misforunate of being Robin in an era that sucked, but in an era that lacked strong continuity and serialization. I would be content to see World's Finesty give me that or have an athology not Legends of The Dark Knight, but one that would focus on THE Dynamic Duo. The New 52 was the perfect opportuinity to do this, but it crammed Dick and a series of replacements into a condensed time period. Now if it started in September 2011 perhaps by October 2016 Dick would have ended his partnership with Bruce we would have material in a modern context. While I think it would be interesting to see Robin grow with Dick Grayson he can fly from the nest as Nightwing or whatever and by 2018 gotten through Jason's ill-fated tenure.

[MikeandRaph87]

DC has driven me to the back issue bin.