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View Poll Results: Did Kavanaugh do it?
Yes! 5 21.74%
No! 2 8.70%
Probably not 4 17.39%
This whole thing is dumb 12 52.17%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-29-2018, 05:16 PM   #1
Andrew NDB
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Did Kavanaugh do it?

Without getting political, speaking strictly about the act he allegedly did when he was 17... do you think he did it?

Secondly... how much do you remember about when you were 17? I couldn't even tell you who my teachers were.
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Old 09-29-2018, 05:44 PM   #2
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I find the timing of the accusation suspect.
That said, I do tend to believe that this woman did live through something. I'm just not sure she is correct in her recollection.

I'm reminded of the innocence project and how many men it freed based on DNA evidence. Each of those men's accusers were also certain that the right man was behind bars. They were wrong. I have a suspicion that's the same situation here.

That third accuser has made similar accusations in the past and she was shown to be lying at that time.

The second accuser apparently just saw him flashing a crowd. Big deal.

So what are we left with? One person making a claim another making another. There is no actual evidence backing up Ford's claims, and while I believe her I can't trust her entirely because she is being used as a pawn in this entire situation.
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Old 09-29-2018, 05:51 PM   #3
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I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.
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Old 09-29-2018, 06:27 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.
I agree with u
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Old 09-29-2018, 09:05 PM   #5
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Sadly, the right answer is not an option: No idea.

Either way though he certainly isn't coming across as anyone dignified enough for the lifelong position they want to vote him into.

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Old 09-29-2018, 09:08 PM   #6
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Umm should't this be a political thread or at least in the sexual harassment thread.
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Old 09-29-2018, 08:58 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
I hit "probably not" before I saw "this whole thing is dumb." Those both cover my thoughts on the matter.

I mean, come on. We've got a sitting President in office with much more credible witnesses, history, and testimonies of sexual chicanery and misdeeds, so we've got a perfect comparison for Kavanaugh.

Dems just don't want the dude on the bench.
The sitting president? What about the past president Clinton who actually sexually harassed an intern to the point of having an affair with the intern.... Talk about calling the kettle black
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Old 09-30-2018, 08:47 AM   #8
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The sitting president? What about the past president Clinton who actually sexually harassed an intern to the point of having an affair with the intern.... Talk about calling the kettle black
1). I'd think the president in office who appointed the mam would be a far more compelling comparison than a president from the 90's, but if you're so triggered that you have to respond by deflecting to Billy Boy Clinton who hasn't been politically relevant in years, sure pal. You do you.

2). Those allegations ALSO were far more reputable, with factual specific evidence and accounts, collaborating witnesses, and far more easily proven. Or, for a THIRD more compelling comparison, Harvey Weinstein! Not even a President or a player in politics at all, so my choice of him as an example won't offend anybody!
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:31 PM   #9
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Thereís a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didnít come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:36 PM   #10
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Thereís a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didnít come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*


At the end of the day he didn't even rape anyone. At most he held her down laughed at her, got up and walked out of the room. Did he penetrate her in at all? No. You do realize that - AT MOST - he committed misdemeanor assault.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:02 PM   #11
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As someone who hasn't followed this controversy, I cannot say if he is guilty or not. I'm no judge and I don't know the guy, so there's no way I know or not if he did it or not. At most I could believe he did it or not, but what I think is irrelevant since I'm no judge. So no, I'm not taking any side on this case. I have no dog in this fight either, since I had no clue who Kavanaugh even was until I saw this thread.

As mentioned before, a lot of powerful and rich men get this type of accusations at some point in their lives. Many times it's just a woman lying in order to get a big sum of money out of the man, and other times it's actually legitimate but the guy gets away with it for being a celebrity. I mean, let's face it, we as a society deify celebrities a bit too much and often forget they're as human as we are and that, just because they're famous doesn't mean they're necessarily good people.

All of this stuff just makes me lose even more faith in humanity. The fact that a lot of people in power abuse said power in a certain away and the fact that some people would be willing to make such a serious false accusation against someone.
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Old 10-05-2018, 08:56 PM   #12
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Like, "Why would she make something like that up?" I don't know... even though they finally nailed Cosby, it's long since been proven that out of alllllll those accusers, at least a couple of them were lying even if most were telling the truth. Maybe it was money, maybe it was just seeing their name in the news, maybe they're just nuts, I don't know. Either way, they lied and said he raped them when he didn't. Luckily for them, he'd actually raped a ton of other women. But those small few were lying, for reasons unknown, and that's nuts. It's why we have the system in place that we do.

You hear the claim, you investigate, you do what you can, and in a case like this, you really have no choice but to shrug and say, "Well, we hear you... but there's nothing we can do , it's all just words at this point." What's left, with no evidence?
----------------------------------

I forgot to mention, a few friends of mine were assaulted by Larry Nassar, if anyone followed that case at all. So I'm 100% understanding of all the Hows and Whys and such about why women stay silent, and all of that. But there's a growing echo of, "I should have spoken up sooner" in that group, and it's exactly because of things like this case. Nassar's only going to die in jail because enough women DID say something - after many others didn't - to lead to an overwhelming mountain of evidence that finally nailed him. And a lot of the ones who didn't report, or gave up after they weren't believed initially, now mostly wish they had been more persistent when they had the chance.

It worked out in the end, but still... imagine if people REALLY went after him when the very first incidents happened? If instead of the parents taking a payoff and moving their kids to a different gym, they'd settled for nothing less than full prosecution?

My friends were assaulted by him in the late-90s, several years after Nassar's "indiscretions" became an open secret in the gymnastics community. Knowing what they went through, and how it changed them, it's hard for me not to think about things like, "Well, if someone had done something sooner, they might have been spared." Mathematically, it's a fact.

Now, too many of the girls DID try and come forward, and were disbelieved, and that's a huge problem. Many balls were fumbled over many years by many people. But the people working in the gymnastics community knew, because the accusations had followed Nassar from one gym to another for years already; if there had been solidarity among the kids and parents, the organization would have been forced to take action... rather than wait until it became a PR nightmare. Too many people for far too long just shrugged and let it go.

I mean, if you have like 500 girls who actually came forward, or whatever the number was, you have to assume that there were at least a thousand victims, if you round up for all the ones who either never spoke up or killed themselves. A thousand kids, over 20-odd years, because too many people kept quiet.

Those girls coming forward now had the benefit of, enough people DID report it back in the day to establish a paper trail. That's the crucial difference between that and the Ford case. With Nassar, you look back and go, "WOW, this is... this is a LOT of reports and evidence going back decades!" and it's an easy slam dunk. With Ford's accusation, there's just words, and nothing else.

Believe me, I get it. I DO. But people can't sweep stuff under the rug like this, or it becomes a cancer.

I'll tell you this for nothing: If Kavanaugh DID do it, right now Ford is wishing she could go back in time and file a police report, even if nothing came of it. It would make all the difference.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:42 PM   #13
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Ahem.

I've repeatedly said, I'm sensitive to why some people feel they "can't" speak up when these things are fresh.

That doesn't change the FACT that it's still the right thing to do, and IF events had happened as Ford claims, and IF she had tried to do something about it then, there'd at least be a trail of evidence to follow.

Doing what's right is ALWAYS harder than closing your eyes and suffering in silence. It's STILL the right thing to do. No amount of "I feel so bad for you" is ever going to change that. Silence enables the abuser to hurt other people, which frankly is pretty evil in and of itself. "Well, I *WISH* I could have done something, and I know they've hurt many more people since then... but I just couldn't say anything, because Reasons." I'm sure that's great consolation to the other people who get abused by the exact same person; knowing they could have been stopped way earlier by someone else but it was "just too hard".

I do have empathy, but there's a place where empathy stops and common sense takes over. So please, don't try and pull that victim-blaming stuff with me. That's not who I am. I'm just a pragmatist.

Meanwhile, Juanita Broaddrick has been telling her story for DECADES, complete with people who completely swear to the details, but she's been victim-shamed and called all kinds of names because... well, because people like Slick Willy, despite the overwhelming pile of evidence that he's a monster for many reasons. "But he's so CHARMING!"

It never fails to amuse me how partisan politics play such a big role in shaping peoples' supposed "morality". People don't actually care about justice being done, you just want your side to get ahead and for the other side to all be "Bad Guys." It'd be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:26 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Candy Kappa View Post
Thereís a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didnít come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*
Because it never happened? In order to be charged for sexual assault, there needs to be evidence. There wasnt any.
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Old 10-06-2018, 11:43 AM   #15
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I just want to clarify something. I don't condone or tacitly promote rape at all. If it is proven that Kavanaugh committed these acts (even after he is given the position of a supreme court justice) then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

My problem is the timing and the way Ford has been used as a pawn for political gains. This information was known almost 2 MONTHS before the information was brought to the general public. The second it was known they should have gone public with it. They did things the way they did because ultimately the left doesn't really care about victims of rape (Booker) they just care about maintaining their power. This was a tactic they used to hold up and/or stop the confirmation hearing. They desperately wanted this to happen after this November because they think they're going to be able to impeach Trump.

Add all that to some of the stuff that has happened more recently (Ford's ex boyfriend) and I find her less than trustworthy.

Ultimately this farce has all been about power. The Democrats have ruined a man's reputation solely because they're afraid of losing theirs.
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Old 10-06-2018, 12:36 PM   #16
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When it comes to politics - it's all about power.

If you seriously believe that those fatcats from democratic party SERIOUSLY give a **** about progress or equality you are deluding yourself. They just use whatever fad in the people's collective consciousness at the moment, to make a power grab.

And it doesn't matter if said moves go completely opposite of democratic or progressive principles and values. They always will find a way to frame their actions as progressive, like saying: "our enemies forced us to do that" even though it's a traditional excuse of an abuser and a person who does nefarious **** and wants to have 0 consequences for it.

The whole lefty ideology has become solely about control. Which is sad since it should be completely opposite of that. But it's just another prove that when movement has enough followers it stops being about principles and becomes all about totalitarian control and power.
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Old 10-06-2018, 01:02 PM   #17
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https://twitter.com/abc7newsbayarea/...32310579548160

Apparently she isn't going to push the issue any further. Probably because they were false.
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