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Old 07-29-2020, 10:13 AM   #21
Whatswiththeheadbands?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Dark Knight Returns wasn't perfect, but absolutely one of the all-time best they've done. And I don't even love the book, I think the book has good ideas but is heavily flawed. But as far as animated "adaptations" go, well... THAT'S how you do it, generally speaking.
--------------------

Killing Joke was an all-around misfire.

I know everyone cites the Batgirl stuff, and that IS bad, but that's not even the biggest problem. Or maybe it is, but the rest of the execution simply was not correct.

The art was far too flat and lacked detail, compared to the absolutely incredible art of the comic book. They really needed to go all-out for that particular release, and they did not. It looked too much like every other random release they did.

Perhaps most egregious of all, was Mark Hammil completely misreading the material. Which KILLS me, because he said this was the one Joker role he wanted to perform more than any other... and he did it wrong. Just totally, totally wrong. If you read the book, it's fairly obvious that some lines are meant to be "loud" and some are supposed to be "quiet". And he did it BACKWARDS in just about every case, shouting when he was supposed to be subtle and vice-versa. Sometimes he even sounded bored.

Look at the book, and look at Joker's face when he says "Why aren't you laughing?" He's NOT shouting, he's not even angry, he's genuinely confused and a little bit upset that Batman doesn't "get the joke" about life being meaningless. He WANTS him to understand... he really does believe that there is freedom in Madness, and he sees that Batman's entire life is nothing but a "pointless" struggle. He's trying to "set him free", yet Batman is fighting him on it, and he can't understand why. If anything, he should sound confused and pitiful when he says that line. It's all right there in the expression on the page. You can "hear" it, you can hear the way it's supposed to be delivered. It's all in the eyes. Sad eyes, not angry ones.

Instead, we get a generic, over-the-top shouted delivery of a line that's supposed to be poignant and understated. Did Mark even read the book? He SAYS he loves it, but I'm not so sure he understood it.

I'm willing to allow for the fact that maybe he just got bad direction, I don't know. I do know that his performance, done correctly, could have elevated that thing to another level. Instead, it was no different at all from his regular stuff. I actually think it was one of his lesser Joker performances. And that's a goddamn tragedy.
This video, done years before the official movie, has the famous monologue but I think it's done about a thousand times better than the official. The Hamill impersonation is near perfect as well

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Old 07-29-2020, 10:37 AM   #22
ZariusTwo
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If Hamill ever got invited back to do a proper Death In The Family adaptation, he'd actually have some experience and familiarity with the source material


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Old 07-29-2020, 10:46 AM   #23
Coola Yagami
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Dark Knight Returns wasn't perfect, but absolutely one of the all-time best they've done. And I don't even love the book, I think the book has good ideas but is heavily flawed. But as far as animated "adaptations" go, well... THAT'S how you do it, generally speaking.
--------------------

Killing Joke was an all-around misfire.

I know everyone cites the Batgirl stuff, and that IS bad, but that's not even the biggest problem. Or maybe it is, but the rest of the execution simply was not correct.

The art was far too flat and lacked detail, compared to the absolutely incredible art of the comic book. They really needed to go all-out for that particular release, and they did not. It looked too much like every other random release they did.

Perhaps most egregious of all, was Mark Hammil completely misreading the material. Which KILLS me, because he said this was the one Joker role he wanted to perform more than any other... and he did it wrong. Just totally, totally wrong. If you read the book, it's fairly obvious that some lines are meant to be "loud" and some are supposed to be "quiet". And he did it BACKWARDS in just about every case, shouting when he was supposed to be subtle and vice-versa. Sometimes he even sounded bored.

Look at the book, and look at Joker's face when he says "Why aren't you laughing?" He's NOT shouting, he's not even angry, he's genuinely confused and a little bit upset that Batman doesn't "get the joke" about life being meaningless. He WANTS him to understand... he really does believe that there is freedom in Madness, and he sees that Batman's entire life is nothing but a "pointless" struggle. He's trying to "set him free", yet Batman is fighting him on it, and he can't understand why. If anything, he should sound confused and pitiful when he says that line. It's all right there in the expression on the page. You can "hear" it, you can hear the way it's supposed to be delivered. It's all in the eyes. Sad eyes, not angry ones.

Instead, we get a generic, over-the-top shouted delivery of a line that's supposed to be poignant and understated. Did Mark even read the book? He SAYS he loves it, but I'm not so sure he understood it.

I'm willing to allow for the fact that maybe he just got bad direction, I don't know. I do know that his performance, done correctly, could have elevated that thing to another level. Instead, it was no different at all from his regular stuff. I actually think it was one of his lesser Joker performances. And that's a goddamn tragedy.
You have to remember in the book Joker was in some room speaking on a mic and while Batman was looking for him, he hadn't gotten to him yet at that point. Hence Joker had that moment to himself to display emotion.

In the movie they added this extra scene of Batman and Joker fighting in this upside down themed room while he was saying those lines. Threw the whole delivery off cause in the comic he was sitting in a room and in the movie he was slamming a chair on Batman.

And you are correct, all the times Hamill has retired from the role 'for good', y'know, cause he keeps coming back like Goldberg, was that the one thing that would bring him out of retirement would be if they adapted the Killing Joke. Like guys, you are lucky enough to get noth Hamill and Conroy. You shoulda gone balls to wall in term of quality and artistic detail.
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