Aquaman movie

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

oh during the crossover Lois says she is having supes kid and Superman says I kid you not The world doesn't need Superman because it has Supergirl what a load of ********

Really? Ugh, they just keep pressing that button, don't they? It's like they only brought out Superman so he can keep jobbing to Supergirl.

[Autbot_Benz]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Really? Ugh, they just keep pressing that button, don't they? It's like they only brought out Superman so he can keep jobbing to Supergirl.

ya I groaned hard when he said that. It seems Supes is just for the crossovers now

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

It seems Supes is just for the crossovers now

Maybe not.

[ZariusTwo]

Oh, so they are following the Rebirth continuity with Lois and Clark and bringing little Jon into things

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Leo656

The organization itself is a mess, because they don't know which "fans" to listen to. The product was fine. Was. Until they lost faith and got panicky.

Which product?
Man of Steel was controversial, BVS was a dumpster fire, Justice League was a lrage EHHHHHHHHH. And the time of BVS they haven't gone panic mode yet.
With BVS they delivered a project which was very true to the vision of its creator, certain Mr. Snyder and this project was inept, boring and depressing.
The mess was in the heads of the execs who had put Snyder in charge of DCCU and had allowed BVS to be made.

Originally Posted by Leo656

They ABSOLUTELY shouldn't be listening to people who don't even read comics. Which is 99% of the people whining about the movies. "But... but the cartoon shows!" Yeaaaah, not relevant. "But... But Chris Reeve...!" Those insipid kids movies have NOTHING to do with Superman, and anyone who's ever picked up a comic since 1986 can tell you that.

Comic book movies, shouldn't be for comic book fans.

Like any other adaptation of the pre-existing property they should be for EVERYONE. When you make that little macabre adaptation, which is so up its own ass with its lore and adapt beloved character as they were in some obscure stories - negative results are to be expected.
Pair its all up with an ambitious arrogant creator who is also up his own ass and you get a recipe for a disaster.

BVS was bad, not because DC had listened to fans. They did not. It was bad because the whole idea to be "anti-Marvel" / deconstruction of Superman and Batman was arrogant, stupid and awfully executed. Such stuff shouldn't be a foundation for the Cinematic Universe. At the very least things like that should be experimental one-off movies.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I know your opinion isn't gonna change, but it's forever tiresome hearing people who don't know what they're talking about, insist in fact that they do. If all a person knows of the DCU is old cartoons and movies that have been outdated for over a quarter-century, maybe they should allow that their opinion is based on misinformation, and not be so wedded to it.

I haven't watched anything about Superman, except for the old movie, which I didn't like. So, I can judge movie about him without any pre-existing bias and with no references to anything.
And in my opinion, MOS was so-so and BVS was horrible.

Originally Posted by Leo656

I know jack sh*t about Marvel, so I try hard not to speak to what they do, because I don't want to come off either ignorant, or just a dick. It would be great if other people followed suit.

You can judge movies for their quality as standalone works, not as adaptations.
In fact, IMO, this what you should in many cases.

[ZariusTwo]

Just got back from it. It's fine.

Spoiler:

Partially Black Panther but with white dudes, partially buddy cop quest, partially overbloated CGI finale, not a lot of rapid-fire quipping either, it knows when to be serious and when to stop to smile and eat the roses. Don't expect much of Black Manta though

[Krutch]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Comic book movies, shouldn't be for comic book fans.

Like any other adaptation of the pre-existing property they should be for EVERYONE.

You can judge movies for their quality as standalone works, not as adaptations.
In fact, IMO, this what you should in many cases.

Well... It all comes down to intent. If you intend to make a movie that alienates non-comic fans and to do a true celebration of the comics, then that's totally your prerogative to do so. But honestly, I'm not sure who Zack was making this universe for.

I like a lot of the broad strokes DC was attempting and give them huge credit for taking such a bold approach to their universe. Unfortunately, Zack doesn't have the leadership or focused storytelling in him to execute a vision this grandiose, so what we get is a jumbled mess full of half baked ideas where if you squint realllly hard you can see what he's going for - some of the time.

I say this as a fan of much of Zack's work - he's just not the right guy to steer the ship. He has a strong visual style (everyone knows that) and a sharp attention to detail. But he has an extremely hard time telling that cohesively through the story. Sure, you can go through and cherry pick different things and go "See, look here - this is what he's saying. And here? This is a reference to this, which will be payed off in a few more movies if you're patient." but that's just... well, that's just lousy, meandering, obtuse storytelling. And i'm not even getting into all the times he contradicts himself while doing so. Anyone can make a nonsensical story with the promise of "oooooh but it'll be worth it when it pays off in 10 years!". But not only is that arrogant storytelling (to assume the DCEU would be successful enough in the first place) it puts people in a 6-10 year hold for what they actually want to see.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Just got back from it. It's fine.

Spoiler:

Partially Black Panther but with white dudes, partially buddy cop quest, partially overbloated CGI finale, not a lot of rapid-fire quipping either, it knows when to be serious and when to stop to smile and eat the roses. Don't expect much of Black Manta though

Awwww, I was stoked to see how they'd handle him. Too bad we don't get a lot.

Originally Posted by Sumac

I haven't watched anything about Superman, except for the old movie, which I didn't like. So, I can judge movie about him without any pre-existing bias and with no references to anything.
And in my opinion, MOS was so-so and BVS was horrible.

Translation:

"I don't know what I'm talking about, so I should keep my ignorant opinion to myself and not repeatedly scream it as fact."

...Is what a person with any self-awareness would say. But thanks for letting me know quite clearly to completely ignore and disregard any and all opinions you have may have about any movies going forward, but especially ones based on comics.

Like, I'm not gonna sit here and wax poetic for several years (as some people do/have) about whether "Interview With the Vampire" is a "masterpiece" or a "piece of sh*t" or whether it accurately reflects the works of Anne Rice, because I don't have any f*cking idea. My opinion starts and ends with me; I'm not gonna trash the movie, rave about it, or cast aspersions on the directors or anyone who likes or dislikes the movies. I can simply say, "For me it was ____" and that"s it.

Because I'm not an asshole like some folks, and my opinions aren't facts by default (until inevitably proven to be by others ). You, and many, would do well to follow my lead if you ever wanna have a productive conversation that"s not with a computer screen, jack.
----------------

Krutch: If anything, the storytelling in MoS and BvS felt more like "comic book storytelling" than "movie storytelling", which to me is fine but I can see why to others it was strange.

I don't have to "squint" for anything to make sense, but again, maybe I just read "too many" comic books.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Awwww, I was stoked to see how they'd handle him. Too bad we don't get a lot.

Spoiler:

Yeah, you get a grand total of one drawn-out fight scene in the midst of the movie (occasionally cutting back to Mera against the Atlantean troopers), and then he gets defeated and isn't seen again until the mid-credits. On initial viewing, I thought his head had been blown off and was surprised in the mid-credits scene to find it was just his helmet that got fried

[Shark_Blade]

Wow amazing movie. DC outdone themselves this time. I reckon it’s better than Wonder Woman, the final battle was epic.

Without going into story spoiler territory,

I always had a crush on Nicole Kidman. She’s in a league of her own when it comes to beauty and grace standard, just like Charlize Theron.

Most of the time I imagine this as a live action Little Mermaid movie, I mean Mera is already Ariel in my mind (I love her since Justice League). And there’s the gold Trident and ocean palace. I hope Disney step it up for their TLM live action because the expectation is already set very high in Aquaman.

This also marks a return of alpha male hero for me. I can’t think of a male hero that sports long hair and beard but still looks dashingly good. He’s pretty charismatic too. And that muscular hairless body is damn fine, makes you wanna workout in the gym.

Heh I reckon I’m gonna watch this again. 9/10 awesome.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Spoiler:

Yeah, you get a grand total of one drawn-out fight scene in the midst of the movie (occasionally cutting back to Mera against the Atlantean troopers), and then he gets defeated and isn't seen again until the mid-credits. On initial viewing, I thought his head had been blown off and was surprised in the mid-credits scene to find it was just his helmet that got fried

Aww. Still, not too bad. This thing sounds really jammed, so I'm not surprised some things got a bit less attention that they maybe deserve.

How's Amber Heard? My wife haaaaaates her, because she's a Johnny Depp fanatic, and if she's really good in this it's gonna be a lotta fun for me.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by Leo656

How's Amber Heard? My wife haaaaaates her, because she's a Johnny Depp fanatic, and if she's really good in this it's gonna be a lotta fun for me.

Amber's alright, has good chemistry with Jason, that wig though...

[Andrew NDB]

There is equal blame between Zack and WB. Zack was just doing his Man of Steel trilogy. I really dug the first part, the only one we'll apparently even get. After part 1, WB got over-reactive about the backlash about people upset about Superman not saving anybody in MoS's climax... and at the same time wanting to springboard their DCEU. A lot of bigwig hats were being changed/promoted/replaced about this time. So we got BvS instead of Man of Steel 2, a half hearted sequel to MoS and a half hearted and wrong Batman 1... plus a lot of ham-fisted other stuff (WW, all the dumb cameos, future glimpses of what will come). It wasn't received well but that didn't really register until he was almost done shooting JL, so it was reshot the hell out of... but neither version of JL would have accomplished WB's nebulous goal of establishing their DCEU.

WB should have just left Zack as the architect (with reasonable supervision by the right people) of Man of Steel movies, and kept them coming. While similarly hiring others to do Batman movies and such.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

After part 1, WB got over-reactive about the backlash about people upset about Superman not saving anybody in MoS's climax...

This is a huge problem: People either not watching/understanding the movie, or making up things to complain about that didn't happen.

He saved the entire WORLD. As in, by literally pushing back with more force than ALL the gravity of the entire planet combined, smashing through the World Engine, and putting a stop to the terraforming scheme. He ALSO put an end to Zod's stated goal of murdering everyone on Earth one by one, which he absolutely would have done.

I know people might've liked to see more one-to-one, "getting cats out of trees" stuff, but seriously. He literally saved everyone, twice within a 15-minute window.

But no, yeah, "He didn't save anyone."

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Krutch

Well... It all comes down to intent. If you intend to make a movie that alienates non-comic fans and to do a true celebration of the comics, then that's totally your prerogative to do so. But honestly, I'm not sure who Zack was making this universe for.

I have a feeling he was doing it for himself.
Afterall, it seems he had an enormous amount of trust from WB leadership and enormous amount of money. I won't be surprised if saw it as his own "magnum opus" - an opportunity to create a monumental work to be remebered.
Well, it is certainly remembered...

Originally Posted by Krutch

I like a lot of the broad strokes DC was attempting and give them huge credit for taking such a bold approach to their universe. Unfortunately, Zack doesn't have the leadership or focused storytelling in him to execute a vision this grandiose, so what we get is a jumbled mess full of half baked ideas where if you squint realllly hard you can see what he's going for - some of the time.

Indeed.
It goes for all his works, pretty much. Beautiful visuals, but very little attention on the characters and logic of the plot.

Originally Posted by Krutch

I say this as a fan of much of Zack's work - he's just not the right guy to steer the ship. He has a strong visual style (everyone knows that) and a sharp attention to detail. But he has an extremely hard time telling that cohesively through the story. Sure, you can go through and cherry pick different things and go "See, look here - this is what he's saying. And here? This is a reference to this, which will be payed off in a few more movies if you're patient." but that's just... well, that's just lousy, meandering, obtuse storytelling. And i'm not even getting into all the times he contradicts himself while doing so. Anyone can make a nonsensical story with the promise of "oooooh but it'll be worth it when it pays off in 10 years!". But not only is that arrogant storytelling (to assume the DCEU would be successful enough in the first place) it puts people in a 6-10 year hold for what they actually want to see.

Completely agree with all of this.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Translation:

"I don't know what I'm talking about, so I should keep my ignorant opinion to myself and not repeatedly scream it as fact."

Oh, I am so so sorry, that I don't hail ****** movie, because, I haven't read 10000 volusmes of Suerman comic books.

Let me tell you this: if you need to read 10k comic books to understand a single movie, than it is a very very VERY ****ING BAD movie.

Originally Posted by Leo656

...Is what a person with any self-awareness would say. But thanks for letting me know quite clearly to completely ignore and disregard any and all opinions you have may have about any movies going forward, but especially ones based on comics.

Thanks for reminding me that you are an arrogant douchebag.
It's not that it was a secret to anyone here, but I hoped we could have an interesting discussions time and time again. But apparently insulting your favorite superhero and his movies is a good way to get onto your bad side which is laughable.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Like, I'm not gonna sit here and wax poetic for several years (as some people do/have) about whether "Interview With the Vampire" is a "masterpiece" or a "piece of sh*t" or whether it accurately reflects the works of Anne Rice, because I don't have any f*cking idea. My opinion starts and ends with me; I'm not gonna trash the movie, rave about it, or cast aspersions on the directors or anyone who likes or dislikes the movies. I can simply say, "For me it was ____" and that"s it.

Because I'm not an asshole like some folks, and my opinions aren't facts by default (until inevitably proven to be by others ). You, and many, would do well to follow my lead if you ever wanna have a productive conversation that"s not with a computer screen, jack.

Except you did exactly what you've sworn not to.
So, good job at being embodient of mutually exclusive paragraphs.

Originally Posted by Leo656

Krutch: If anything, the storytelling in MoS and BvS felt more like "comic book storytelling" than "movie storytelling", which to me is fine but I can see why to others it was strange.

I don't have to "squint" for anything to make sense, but again, maybe I just read "too many" comic books.

Now how about all those masses who haven't read 10k volumes of Superman?

I mean, it is obvious that you don't care about them, but it's kind of arrogant. Not to mention, potentially dangerous for the property.

Originally Posted by Leo656

This is a huge problem: People either not watching/understanding the movie, or making up things to complain about that didn't happen.

Or people didn't like the way movie was executed.

Originally Posted by Leo656

But no, yeah, "He didn't save anyone."

If I make a movie about goody-two-shoes superhero, who stops the supervillain, but in the process fails to save several thousands people, even though he could do it, I don't think it will go well.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I know people might've liked to see more one-to-one, "getting cats out of trees" stuff, but seriously. He literally saved everyone, twice within a 15-minute window.

But no, yeah, "He didn't save anyone."

He killed one Kryptonian general to save an entire population.

THE MONSTER.

There are reasons to dislike Man of Steel. Pa Kent's weird "let the other kids die" logic; or Pa Kent dying to save a dog and not letting Clark help.

Actually, there are reasons to dislike Man of Steel's Pa Kent. There ain't no real reason to dislike Man of Steel or Henry Cavill's Superman.

[Candy Kappa]

Sumac is right though. A CB shouldn't be made for comic fans only, and if you have to read volumes on volumes of comics to "get" a move that 'twas okay, someone did a bad job.

I enjoyed MoS well enough despite its flaws, but I don't own it on DVD/bluray nor have I seen it more then twice, cause honestly the movie loses its "luster" (as much luster that bleak colorless movie have ) each time it's seen. It has a lot of nice scenes in it that are very nice to watch on YouTube when soneone have color corrected the clips to look nice, bright and colorful, but beyond that I've lost ant interest in MoS2 or any other Snyder erase movie that isn't WW, Aquaman or Captain Marvel/Shazam. I feel the foundation Snyder and WB have laid works agains making good movies, and those who do turn out good are out of the norm.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw that early screening of "Aquaman" (well, early for the U.S., anyway). Hey, pretty good! I should say "surprisingly" good. The previews -- to me, particularly the first one -- made it look cheesy and dumb. A real feel good movie, and I was really worried. Everything they tried to do in this worked for me, and even all (I think? I'm pretty sure) the jokes landed. It's definitely an unintentional answer to "Black Panther" in many ways, and with even more CGI. So, so much CGI... it's pretty staggering towards the end (but what are you gonna do? 80% of the movie is all underwater). Which sounds worrisome, but they make it work. Easily as good as Wonder Woman even if it isn't as "important" of a movie, and maybe -- probably -- even better. As far as the DCEU goes, to me, it probably ranks just below "Man of Steel," which I still dig despite its weaknesses (which to me are nowhere near the level of weaknesses in any DCEU movie except for maybe WW).

Only bad thing I would say is... maybe too big? Nothing didn't work for me and the pace seemed right, but... I don't know that they needed to shoot for the stars quite so high with this. All the cards are laid out: giant disaster movie stuff, thousands fighting each under in giant undersea battles, Aquaman traveling the globe, etc.... it could have been smaller in scope and lost nothing at its core.

Sad thing is, even suspecting now that this movie will be a relative hit... what is it really going to benefit in the DCEU? JL already sunk the ship. I mean, it will improve the chances of an Aquaman 2, but what about Man of Steel 2? Or anything that matters in terms of damage control? I dunno. Give James Wan Man of Steel 2, I say. But nothing is really going to fix a dead-wrong Barry Allen or a Cyborg who shouldn't even be there, or the complete absence of a Green Lantern.

They get about as much mileage out of Nicole Kidman as they did with Michelle Pfieffer in Ant Man & The Wasp, except they let Kidman really kick ass in this (or her stuntwoman, but still). One really cool rooftop continuous shot chase/fight scene stands out with Mera and Aquaman. Wowed the whole crowd.

I also notice Geoff Johns squeezed in his recent "Trench" stuff from the comics into the movie. Decades and decades of Aquaman comics to pull from, and they just do that.

[Leo656]

I'll be blunt. People who don't read comics? Their opinions on comic book movies don't matter to me. Their opinions are ignorant and should be kept to themselves. People who read comics but view them as "silly kids stuff" only suited to comedies and children's entertainment? Same thing. I do not value their input, and I don't pretend to. Hot air with no point or meaning. If you don't know what you're talking about, how can you add anything to the conversation? "Well, I liked ____ and didn't like ___"? Fine, but that's you; it has less than nothing to do with what I think/feel as a person both familiar with and heavily invested in the source material. The least a person can do, IF they insist on having a STRONG opinion (and insisting those who disagree are fools), is have a basic understanding of whatever the subject matter is.

If a person has never read a comic book, then I don't care WHAT they think about the latest Superman/Batman/X-Men/Spider-Man/Whatever-Man movie. Liked it? Fine. Hated it? Fine. But don't act like you know jack from sh*t beyond that, because you don't. And absolutely don't presume to tell me MY opinion is right or wrong. My educated opinion on the subject weighs far more than your empty one. "Well, I don't know comics, but I know what *I* like." Fine. I don't care what you like, but don't tell me you're "better" or "smarter" than me if I like something you don't, or vice-versa. THAT is what's truly "arrogant". NOT me expecting people to actually have something to stand their opinions on top of, other than, "It's my opinion."

It's okay to be ignorant, just admit you are, and don't expect others to fall in line with your opinion, or else they're "bad people" or whatever. THAT is what I take issue with.

It's okay to like "Braveheart" as a film. It's completely ignorant to say it faithfully represents its characters or its story. It's a fun movie, but it does a terrible job representing what it's supposed to be about. Do we go around calling history professors "idiots" or "elitist assholes" because they point out that film has as much basis in history as a Bazooka Joe comic? No, we don't.

A LOT of people on this forum are the "comics are silly, the movies should be silly" types, so it's no shock we disagree. It SHOULD be fine to simply disagree, but the eternal, "You like that thing I don't like, you're stupid" bullsh*t is what I can't stand about this place. Especially where it comes from, which is, again, Ignorant People convinced their word is all that carries weight, or that because it's consensus HERE, it's consensus everywhere.

TMNT fans, of all people, should never lecture ANYONE about their tastes. Not in movies, not in anything. "I'm a huge TMNT fan!" and "I know good entertainment from bad entertainment!" are 100% mutually exclusive statements. Sorry to be an "arrogant douchebag" about it, but it's worth pointing out. Just given the fact that this fanbase excels at NOTHING more than swallowing whatever sh*t they're given in the hope there's a nugget of ice cream in there. But by all means, tell people their standards are "lesser" than yours.

Nobody's "right", you're just dicks being dickish because you outnumber someone in the room, opinion-wise. When it's flipped around on you, though, you cry about it. Funny how that has worked, historically.
---------------

No, Sumac, we can't have "conversations" because you're the type who tries to get people riled up on purpose, otherwise you would have jumped off the conversation a long time ago or taken it private when I asked you to. You're just a dick, trolling people for "the lulz". Again, your very first interaction with me was to flame-bait on my "wall", which tells me everything I need to know about you as a person. That, and how you repeatedly ignored my requests for a respectful private conversation, in favor of... This. So DON'T act like you're anything other than a rag. You had a chance to prove you weren't, but you turned it down.

If I talk down to you, or anyone - which I absolutely do and won't deny - it's because they've earned it. Again, I've long given you the benefit of the doubt, and even defended you at times even though I knew better, if for no other reason than I don't like seeing people ganged up on. Recent experience has simply proven that when people go ahead and show/tell me who they are, I should definitely listen.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Saw that early screening of "Aquaman" (well, early for the U.S., anyway). Hey, pretty good! I should say "surprisingly" good. The previews -- to me, particularly the first one -- made it look cheesy and dumb. A real feel good movie, and I was really worried. (

This is good to hear, as I've had similar concerns. I think Mamoa's great in the role, though, so I figured even if I didn't love the material I'd at least enjoy his performance of it.

We're gonna go next weekend, in between all the last-minute Christmas shopping and whatnot.

I share the confusion about what the success of this movie could mean for the future, but truthfully - and keep in mind, I'm not a CEO or shareholder of a billion-dollar franchise - I don't think things are as shot as people think. I strongly feel they could have had, and could still have, a decent set-up but WB as a company is just far too over-reactionary with everything they do. If something doesn't make MCU money or get MCU rave reviews, their first instinct is to throw out the baby with the bathwater. You'll NEVER get ahead with that kind of approach. You have to "stay the course" sometimes, which is something they don't know how to do.

It's not even new to them. They've been meandering in their approach to super-hero films ever since "Batman Returns" confused and divided the audience, and they immediately did a complete 180 and responded with those lousy Schumacher flicks. I do love DC, but I've long wished they were owned by someone with a better business approach than WB.

Let's face it, the company that gave the world "Space Jam" is NEVER going to be capable of creating "high art", or even settling on a long-term creative direction. That's simply not what Warner Bros. does. And that's incredibly frustrating, sometimes. But it's why I generally fault the company, not individual directors (although the fact that I happen to enjoy their work in general does factor in, obviously). It's just not a good business environment. Especially not in a field where they jumped in "second" and were going to eternally play catch-up.

I don't know. It's a mess. But I still think if they actually sat down with Cavill, Affleck, etc., they could still figure everything out (and they really need to fight to keep those guys, because anyone else is a huge step backwards). But they'd have to completely shut out what The Competition is doing, and focus totally on themselves. And I have no faith in them to do that, because... that's what they started to do. For 5 whole minutes, and two whole movies, before they panicked, and now we're here.

Ah well. At least this sounds promising. I've always said, "Aquaman can't work as a movie", so it's nice to be proven wrong.