Does Casey Jones lose his luster in most incarnations after he calms down?

*CyberCubed* · 10-11-2017, 12:08 PM

I'm excluding the original cartoon from this because he only appeared 5 times.

But in the 2k3 series, the Nick cartoon, the Mirage comics and even IDW, I notice the same thing happens with Casey Jones in every series. He starts off really entertaining, tough, he can fight, is a good addition to the cast, etc....then as each series progresses he becomes the dumb comic relief guy and becomes pretty useless.

This happened in Mirage too! While there is some development there because Casey becomes a father, after a while he just becomes the dumb father in a lot of Volume 4 and Tales issues, and generally is treated like a "blockhead" as Raph puts it. He also becomes an alcoholic.

In the 2k3 series Casey Jones started off awesome. By the time we got to mid-Season 3 he became goofball comic relief, started becoming dumber and dumber, and then started losing most of his fights. Then the Turtles just start excluding him from a lot of fights.

In the Nick cartoon Casey Jones is pretty flanderized from Season 3 onward, to the point where he gets dumber and just spouts catch phrases whereas in Season 2 he was pretty well handled.

And in IDW we had Casey impaled by the Shredder and then feeling useless about himself for a long time. While he has now taken over the Purple Dragons, he's still generally excluded from the main fights of the series and not used too often anymore.

Thoughts?

*Utrommaniac* · 10-11-2017, 12:48 PM

I think the "loss of luster" works best in Mirage and IDW.

In Mirage, he has to put a leash on himself because he becomes a father and has to actually take on some serious responsibilities. And what's more is that he realizes this on his own. Now, from my understanding, Shadow isn't even his biological child, so his support of Shadow's mother through her pregnancy was already showing some major growth in maturity that was self-initiated. His vigilantism showed that he wanted to be a helpful person, but was grossly misdirected. Shadow was something to ground him, and he knew this. But then, that starts to fail him as he gets into his volume 4 midlife crisis, between Shadow hitting her rebellious stage, and April trying to find out where she came from and then the rage-inducing realization of where she came from that only makes her isolate herself from Casey, sending him spiraling even further into the pit he was already in.

His dulling down in IDW would probably be from trauma. He was violent to cope with emotional and physical abuse at him, but it actually nearly killed him, it knocked the wind out of him. It certainly was not a move toward realizing his potential in other tasks (mechanics, fatherhood), but rather something to force him to withdraw farther than he already had. His coping mechanisms against being brutalized were already inefficient, but this time he actually nearly died. And I personally don't blame him for withdrawing after a situation like that. Now, if I'd been on the writing team, I would have had his injuries make it difficult for him to do just about anything, with combat being the hardest thing of all. So after he takes over the Purple Dragons, he stops fighting to protect himself from the literal physical pain of overexerting himself and making the scarring from the "situation" worse.

Casey as a whole seems to be a character "destined" to lose his luster over time. Either because he makes the conscious decision to, or because he has to...or because the writers bit off way more than they could chew and choked on it...like everything else in the show.
That being said though, I think it could be a really good character arch to focus on and actually address "Hey Casey, what's going on? You're not the violent Mugger Smasher that you used to be, what happened?"

I think it would make him a little more interesting than just the wise-cracking "smash all the things" maniac than the Casey Jones in the FW show. Because even with the vigilantism, that's not who he is, just the surface of it. Capable hands are able to to under the surface. That he's perfectly capable of being sweet-natured and great with mechanics and kids. Which would...probably benefit him a lot in a production where he and April are adults and the turtles actually act like 14/15 year old boys. Eventually it could hit him, "sh*t these are kids, I need to cool off and be a better role model for the outside world."

*Prowler* · 10-11-2017, 01:46 PM

Yeah, I agree with both of you. Casey Jones is a character that works well early on but it's not a bad idea for him to lose some protagonism and luster as the show goes on.

*Utrommaniac* · 10-11-2017, 01:55 PM

All things considered, Casey seems to be the character that does/should "grow up" the most...at least among the adult characters.

He could even parallel to Yoshi/Splinter and/or Saki in a way, except that he pulls himself together and chooses not to derail into vengeful pettiness like they did, that there are better things to do in life than whine about "lost honor" and blaming another person for his own problems. Casey, unlike Yoshi and/or Saki, could realize that a lot of the issues that could come up with a rival person, that it is not worth it to get tangled up in a feud. That he needs to fix the problems within himself than taking them out on someone else.

And, with that in mind, it could be a lesson to mostly Yoshi/Splinter, especially in humility, since it would come from someone so much younger.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 10-11-2017, 01:56 PM

Well, even if he appeared in more than 5 episodes of the Original Cartoon, he still wouldn't lose his luster because OT Casey Jones is the literal incarnation of never ending insanity.

"Even Machines must obey the law!"

*CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy* · 10-11-2017, 02:00 PM

I think IDW is still using Casey extremely well. The whole storyline with him moving out from his abusive dad, to his abusive dad becoming Hun and joining the Foot Clan--the very people responsible for nearly killing Casey--and then to the Vengeance Jones boys stuff, and now Casey becoming his father in a very real way...

Good stuff!

But TMNT does have a really hard time finding storylines and development for its human characters after the Turtles have met them and gotten used to having human friends.

*Powder* · 10-11-2017, 02:00 PM

Becoming more chill is fine with me, what I hate is that the cartoons always turn him into a freakin' idiot. Sure, he's not meant to be "smart" per se, but he's not a complete tool.

*FredWolfLeonardo* · 10-11-2017, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Powder

Becoming more chill is fine with me, what I hate is that the cartoons always turn him into a freakin' idiot. Sure, he's not meant to be "smart" per se, but he's not a complete tool.

I feel like this applies to Nick Casey more than 2k3 Casey. Sure, the latter might've become more bumbling as the series went on but I still found him to be a likeable character, especially when it came to his relationship with April.

Nick Casey on the other hand, I lost all faith in when he screamed "This is Awesome" after the Earth was destroyed.

*CyberCubed* · 10-11-2017, 02:40 PM

2k3 Casey got extremely dumb as the show progressed too. I think it started around the time of "The Golden Puck" episode in Season 2, where he was purposely written silly in that episode, but then they kept that aspect of him in every season after.

I also notice every time they have him fight after they have him goof up, like he becomes the typical comic relief guy who can't fight anymore. Which is bizarre because he's supposed to be a competent street fighter.

*Prowler* · 10-11-2017, 02:45 PM

Yeah, Casey was actually a pretty good fighter in the first season of the 2k3 cartoon. He even held himself well against Raphael and the Foot, despite not being a martial artist.

I also agree that he just got dumber and dumber and more annoying as the show went on. And tbh, Mikey and Raph also got dumber as the show went on. Mikey became REALLY annoying after winning Battle Nexus. Raph had anger issues in the first season sure, but then his anger just became more comical. It's like he and Mike became parodies of themselves.

*IndigoErth* · 10-11-2017, 03:25 PM

Sounds, imo, like it may just become too redundant and boring to continue writing him the same way all the time... If knowing the Turtles and April help him steer himself to become a bit better, more easy going person, then its at least some progress for the character, even if not the most interesting.

Even if he showed up in more episode, I don't think the original cartoon Casey would have ever calmed down anyway. That guy was nuts.

That one needed some psychotherapy and meds instead.

*CyberCubed* · 10-11-2017, 03:28 PM

I think the problem most series have is after Casey is with the main cast for awhile...what is there to do with him? In Mirage Casey settled down as a father, but the other series have him much younger and obviously don't do that.

After a while you can either just have him as back-up with the Turtles on missions and not do much else. We have a good rivalry between him and Hun in 2k3 and IDW but even that eventually gets overplayed because Hun is never killed off and keeps coming back.

*Prowler* · 10-11-2017, 03:30 PM

Casey Jones was pretty funny in the FW series. But he'd have worn thin if he became a regular. I'ts kinda funny still that one of the most notorious secondary characters in the entire property showed up in less episodes than characters like the Neutrinos, Zach and Carter in the most popular/well-known TMNT cartoon series ever.

*oldmanwinters* · 10-11-2017, 07:29 PM

To answer the question of the original post:
I think so.

Although I think he was still the most entertaining part of TMNT 3 in a more limited role.

*Coola Yagami* · 10-13-2017, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

To answer the question of the original post:
I think so.

Although I think he was still the most entertaining part of TMNT 3 in a more limited role.

Lol. I always did wonder why he was in that movie... just to be there.

I'm like 'yeah! Casey's back! Wait... he's not going with them?'

*CyberCubed* · 10-13-2017, 01:56 PM

Well his actor played Whit in the past, who was implied to be Casey's ancestor, so he technically was with them.

PizzaPower1985 · 10-16-2017, 02:10 PM

I think Casey works best somewhere between the Mirage incarnation and the IDW book incarnation. Perhaps E. Koteas' portrayal is the pitch perfect version... not necessarily hyper violent but he will beat you up if you rob people or hurt others.

As far as getting watered down after his initial arcs, CyberCubed has a point. At least in the IDW books they are relying on that old story device of "oh he got injured and now wallows in self doubt." There's a reason behind it. Would I be wrong in saying Casey was softer in the 2K3 just because it was a kid's show, primarily?

I think Casey could be a lot more effective in the IDW books if they just used him more in his vigilante capacity... but there's too much going on at the moment.

*pferreira* · 10-26-2017, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Well, even if he appeared in more than 5 episodes of the Original Cartoon, he still wouldn't lose his luster because OT Casey Jones is the literal incarnation of never ending insanity.

"Even Machines must obey the law!"

I think we can all agree on that Casey in the OT was consistently crazed!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

Casey Jones was pretty funny in the FW series. But he'd have worn thin if he became a regular.

If he had been kept on as a regular they would probably have had him take his mask off and become a more developed character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

Although I think he was still the most entertaining part of TMNT 3 in a more limited role.

The bit where he stops one of the warriors from taking the TV back with him into the past always makes me laugh.

10-11-2017, 12:08 PM	#1
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,036	Does Casey Jones lose his luster in most incarnations after he calms down? I'm excluding the original cartoon from this because he only appeared 5 times. But in the 2k3 series, the Nick cartoon, the Mirage comics and even IDW, I notice the same thing happens with Casey Jones in every series. He starts off really entertaining, tough, he can fight, is a good addition to the cast, etc....then as each series progresses he becomes the dumb comic relief guy and becomes pretty useless. This happened in Mirage too! While there is some development there because Casey becomes a father, after a while he just becomes the dumb father in a lot of Volume 4 and Tales issues, and generally is treated like a "blockhead" as Raph puts it. He also becomes an alcoholic. In the 2k3 series Casey Jones started off awesome. By the time we got to mid-Season 3 he became goofball comic relief, started becoming dumber and dumber, and then started losing most of his fights. Then the Turtles just start excluding him from a lot of fights. In the Nick cartoon Casey Jones is pretty flanderized from Season 3 onward, to the point where he gets dumber and just spouts catch phrases whereas in Season 2 he was pretty well handled. And in IDW we had Casey impaled by the Shredder and then feeling useless about himself for a long time. While he has now taken over the Purple Dragons, he's still generally excluded from the main fights of the series and not used too often anymore. Thoughts?

10-11-2017, 12:48 PM	#2
Utrommaniac Resident overthinker Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: what is going on.......... Posts: 5,318	I think the "loss of luster" works best in Mirage and IDW. In Mirage, he has to put a leash on himself because he becomes a father and has to actually take on some serious responsibilities. And what's more is that he realizes this on his own. Now, from my understanding, Shadow isn't even his biological child, so his support of Shadow's mother through her pregnancy was already showing some major growth in maturity that was self-initiated. His vigilantism showed that he wanted to be a helpful person, but was grossly misdirected. Shadow was something to ground him, and he knew this. But then, that starts to fail him as he gets into his volume 4 midlife crisis, between Shadow hitting her rebellious stage, and April trying to find out where she came from and then the rage-inducing realization of where she came from that only makes her isolate herself from Casey, sending him spiraling even further into the pit he was already in. His dulling down in IDW would probably be from trauma. He was violent to cope with emotional and physical abuse at him, but it actually nearly killed him, it knocked the wind out of him. It certainly was not a move toward realizing his potential in other tasks (mechanics, fatherhood), but rather something to force him to withdraw farther than he already had. His coping mechanisms against being brutalized were already inefficient, but this time he actually nearly died. And I personally don't blame him for withdrawing after a situation like that. Now, if I'd been on the writing team, I would have had his injuries make it difficult for him to do just about anything, with combat being the hardest thing of all. So after he takes over the Purple Dragons, he stops fighting to protect himself from the literal physical pain of overexerting himself and making the scarring from the "situation" worse. Casey as a whole seems to be a character "destined" to lose his luster over time. Either because he makes the conscious decision to, or because he has to...or because the writers bit off way more than they could chew and choked on it...like everything else in the show. That being said though, I think it could be a really good character arch to focus on and actually address "Hey Casey, what's going on? You're not the violent Mugger Smasher that you used to be, what happened?" I think it would make him a little more interesting than just the wise-cracking "smash all the things" maniac than the Casey Jones in the FW show. Because even with the vigilantism, that's not who he is, just the surface of it. Capable hands are able to to under the surface. That he's perfectly capable of being sweet-natured and great with mechanics and kids. Which would...probably benefit him a lot in a production where he and April are adults and the turtles actually act like 14/15 year old boys. Eventually it could hit him, "sht these are kids, I need to cool off and be a better role model for the outside world." __________________ DeviantART Last edited by Utrommaniac; 10-11-2017 at 01:02 PM.*

10-11-2017, 01:55 PM	#4
Utrommaniac Resident overthinker Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: what is going on.......... Posts: 5,318	All things considered, Casey seems to be the character that does/should "grow up" the most...at least among the adult characters. He could even parallel to Yoshi/Splinter and/or Saki in a way, except that he pulls himself together and chooses not to derail into vengeful pettiness like they did, that there are better things to do in life than whine about "lost honor" and blaming another person for his own problems. Casey, unlike Yoshi and/or Saki, could realize that a lot of the issues that could come up with a rival person, that it is not worth it to get tangled up in a feud. That he needs to fix the problems within himself than taking them out on someone else. And, with that in mind, it could be a lesson to mostly Yoshi/Splinter, especially in humility, since it would come from someone so much younger. __________________ DeviantART Last edited by Utrommaniac; 10-11-2017 at 02:02 PM.

10-11-2017, 02:00 PM	#6
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy Annalist Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 16,435	I think IDW is still using Casey extremely well. The whole storyline with him moving out from his abusive dad, to his abusive dad becoming Hun and joining the Foot Clan--the very people responsible for nearly killing Casey--and then to the Vengeance Jones boys stuff, and now Casey becoming his father in a very real way... Good stuff! But TMNT does have a really hard time finding storylines and development for its human characters after the Turtles have met them and gotten used to having human friends. __________________ *ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED*

10-11-2017, 02:00 PM	#7
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,809	Becoming more chill is fine with me, what I hate is that the cartoons always turn him into a freakin' idiot. Sure, he's not meant to be "smart" per se, but he's not a complete tool. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

10-11-2017, 01:46 PM	#3
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	Yeah, I agree with both of you. Casey Jones is a character that works well early on but it's not a bad idea for him to lose some protagonism and luster as the show goes on.

10-11-2017, 01:56 PM	#5
FredWolfLeonardo Big Blue Boy Scout Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: New Bark Town Posts: 4,474	Well, even if he appeared in more than 5 episodes of the Original Cartoon, he still wouldn't lose his luster because OT Casey Jones is the literal incarnation of never ending insanity. "Even Machines must obey the law!"

10-11-2017, 02:40 PM	#9
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,036	2k3 Casey got extremely dumb as the show progressed too. I think it started around the time of "The Golden Puck" episode in Season 2, where he was purposely written silly in that episode, but then they kept that aspect of him in every season after. I also notice every time they have him fight after they have him goof up, like he becomes the typical comic relief guy who can't fight anymore. Which is bizarre because he's supposed to be a competent street fighter.

10-11-2017, 02:45 PM	#10
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	Yeah, Casey was actually a pretty good fighter in the first season of the 2k3 cartoon. He even held himself well against Raphael and the Foot, despite not being a martial artist. I also agree that he just got dumber and dumber and more annoying as the show went on. And tbh, Mikey and Raph also got dumber as the show went on. Mikey became REALLY annoying after winning Battle Nexus. Raph had anger issues in the first season sure, but then his anger just became more comical. It's like he and Mike became parodies of themselves.

10-11-2017, 03:25 PM	#11
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,237	Sounds, imo, like it may just become too redundant and boring to continue writing him the same way all the time... If knowing the Turtles and April help him steer himself to become a bit better, more easy going person, then its at least some progress for the character, even if not the most interesting. Even if he showed up in more episode, I don't think the original cartoon Casey would have ever calmed down anyway. That guy was nuts. That one needed some psychotherapy and meds instead.

10-11-2017, 03:28 PM	#12
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,036	I think the problem most series have is after Casey is with the main cast for awhile...what is there to do with him? In Mirage Casey settled down as a father, but the other series have him much younger and obviously don't do that. After a while you can either just have him as back-up with the Turtles on missions and not do much else. We have a good rivalry between him and Hun in 2k3 and IDW but even that eventually gets overplayed because Hun is never killed off and keeps coming back.

10-11-2017, 03:30 PM	#13
Prowler Emperor Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 8,909	Casey Jones was pretty funny in the FW series. But he'd have worn thin if he became a regular. I'ts kinda funny still that one of the most notorious secondary characters in the entire property showed up in less episodes than characters like the Neutrinos, Zach and Carter in the most popular/well-known TMNT cartoon series ever.

10-11-2017, 07:29 PM	#14
oldmanwinters Overlord Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Between yesterday and tomorrow! Posts: 14,936	To answer the question of the original post: I think so. Although I think he was still the most entertaining part of TMNT 3 in a more limited role. __________________ Experience the TMNT Fan Commentaries! Check out my TMNT fan comic, "Nothing to Fear"! View my sketch work! I'm selling some of my hard-to-find TMNT items!

10-13-2017, 01:56 PM	#16
CyberCubed Overlord Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 41,036	Well his actor played Whit in the past, who was implied to be Casey's ancestor, so he technically was with them.

10-16-2017, 02:10 PM	#17
PizzaPower1985 Stone Warrior Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: United States Posts: 947	I think Casey works best somewhere between the Mirage incarnation and the IDW book incarnation. Perhaps E. Koteas' portrayal is the pitch perfect version... not necessarily hyper violent but he will beat you up if you rob people or hurt others. As far as getting watered down after his initial arcs, CyberCubed has a point. At least in the IDW books they are relying on that old story device of "oh he got injured and now wallows in self doubt." There's a reason behind it. Would I be wrong in saying Casey was softer in the 2K3 just because it was a kid's show, primarily? I think Casey could be a lot more effective in the IDW books if they just used him more in his vigilante capacity... but there's too much going on at the moment.