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View Poll Results: Did Kavanaugh do it?
Yes! 5 21.74%
No! 2 8.70%
Probably not 4 17.39%
This whole thing is dumb 12 52.17%
Voters: 23. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-04-2018, 06:58 PM   #21
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Senator Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, said that the report "looks to be a product of an incomplete investigation that was limited perhaps by the White House, I don't know."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/con...w-info-n916601

Yet the investigation was completed more than a full day early? Weird. Why would the FBI give up the investigation over a day early if there was more to investigate? Sounds like "I'm really angry!"

Everything else I'm seeing says the report failed to corroborate anything Ford was saying.

If you actually read the article you would know she was mad that the FBI didn't interview Kavanaugh or accuser Christine Blasey Ford about the allegations.

Also can I say how dumb it is the poll has two answers for no
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:31 AM   #22
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Isn't that what the hearing was for? To get their testimony on the event? Wasn't the FBI investigation mainly to interview those not questioned before the committee?
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:11 AM   #23
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Isn't that what the hearing was for? To get their testimony on the event? Wasn't the FBI investigation mainly to interview those not questioned before the committee?
Yes.

People are like, "B-b-but they didn't talk to Ford some more, or even Kavanaugh!" Why would they? They already testified before the committee. The investigationís purpose was to see if there was any credibility to the accusations. Thatís it.

And why would they want an interview? Did she not get her story out? Did she want to add/change some things? Did she remember even more after the hearing? How would a yes to any of that do anything but damage Fordís credibility even more?
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:35 AM   #24
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Yes.

People are like, "B-b-but they didn't talk to Ford some more, or even Kavanaugh!" Why would they? They already testified before the committee. The investigation’s purpose was to see if there was any credibility to the accusations. That’s it.

And why would they want an interview? Did she not get her story out? Did she want to add/change some things? Did she remember even more after the hearing? How would a yes to any of that do anything but damage Ford’s credibility even more?
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Isn't that what the hearing was for? To get their testimony on the event? Wasn't the FBI investigation mainly to interview those not questioned before the committee?
Except its not really the same thing as an interview and I'm pretty sure the FBI are better at find information than a commitee of senators, it makes no sense to have the FBI investigate the scandal and not interview the primary participates.
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Old 10-05-2018, 11:38 AM   #25
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Situations like this are lousy because everyone decides right at the jump whether someone is guilty or not, and nothing anyone says or does will ever convince them. Like if you simply say, "Well, this sounds a lot like He Said/She Said, without a whole lot of evidence," you're accused of being insensitive rather than, y'know, sensible.

"WHY would anyone make up a story like that?" I'unno, because they do? It happens every day. Saying over and over again that something happened only goes so far; at some point, you just have to say, "Well, we have literally all the information we're going to get on this subject" and move on.

Now, as I've said, if something happened and she didn't wait 30 years to say anything... MAYBE something could have been done. Way too late now, and without anything but words as "proof", it really just comes off as completely political.

This is why no matter how hard it is, people who've been abused HAVE to find a way to speak up AT THE TIME. Taking time to cope with it on your own "Because nobody would believe you" only enables a criminal to repeat offend, and then when you do speak up after a few decades nobody's going to believe you by then anyway.

It's totally different, but my parents were often physically abusive. Nobody in my family would believe me, or they'd tell me I "deserved" it. Obviously that was demoralizing, but it never stopped me from speaking out about it. To this day, there's still some relatives I don't get along with, because they weren't there to see it and thus think I was just a spoiled brat making up stories. I get it. It's tough when people don't believe you, or make you think it's your fault.

In those situations, you have to find your inner strength, remind yourself that you're right and they're wrong, and never compromise or back down. Suffering in silence is exactly how abuse is allowed to repeat and spread. I know; "Just Get Tougher!" But seriously... you have to. What all these women are doing, staying silent forever and then "bravely" coming forward to play the victim card? It's noble to a point but it completely doesn't work. It doesn't prevent more abuse and it doesn't make them any less victims; in fact, it reinforces their victim status, because they let someone bully them into silence about something they absolutely shouldn't have been silent about.

Speaking out about being abused never got me a damn thing but scorn and ridicule, so believe me, I know it's tough. But doing The Right Thing is always The Right Thing even if people tell you it's not, even if it seems like it's pointless. It's not pointless, because things like "Truth" and "Integrity" still matter.

If Kavanaugh is guilty, and he gets away with it, it's sadly Ford's own fault, because her decades of silence shattered her credibility completely and made any wrongdoing 100% impossible to prove. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Her chance to be a hero came and went a long time ago; now she's just playing politics.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:15 PM   #26
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Situations like this are lousy because everyone decides right at the jump whether someone is guilty or not, and nothing anyone says or does will ever convince them. Like if you simply say, "Well, this sounds a lot like He Said/She Said, without a whole lot of evidence," you're accused of being insensitive rather than, y'know, sensible.

"WHY would anyone make up a story like that?" I'unno, because they do? It happens every day. Saying over and over again that something happened only goes so far; at some point, you just have to say, "Well, we have literally all the information we're going to get on this subject" and move on.

Now, as I've said, if something happened and she didn't wait 30 years to say anything... MAYBE something could have been done. Way too late now, and without anything but words as "proof", it really just comes off as completely political.

This is why no matter how hard it is, people who've been abused HAVE to find a way to speak up AT THE TIME. Taking time to cope with it on your own "Because nobody would believe you" only enables a criminal to repeat offend, and then when you do speak up after a few decades nobody's going to believe you by then anyway.

It's totally different, but my parents were often physically abusive. Nobody in my family would believe me, or they'd tell me I "deserved" it. Obviously that was demoralizing, but it never stopped me from speaking out about it. To this day, there's still some relatives I don't get along with, because they weren't there to see it and thus think I was just a spoiled brat making up stories. I get it. It's tough when people don't believe you, or make you think it's your fault.

In those situations, you have to find your inner strength, remind yourself that you're right and they're wrong, and never compromise or back down. Suffering in silence is exactly how abuse is allowed to repeat and spread. I know; "Just Get Tougher!" But seriously... you have to. What all these women are doing, staying silent forever and then "bravely" coming forward to play the victim card? It's noble to a point but it completely doesn't work. It doesn't prevent more abuse and it doesn't make them any less victims; in fact, it reinforces their victim status, because they let someone bully them into silence about something they absolutely shouldn't have been silent about.

Speaking out about being abused never got me a damn thing but scorn and ridicule, so believe me, I know it's tough. But doing The Right Thing is always The Right Thing even if people tell you it's not, even if it seems like it's pointless. It's not pointless, because things like "Truth" and "Integrity" still matter.

If Kavanaugh is guilty, and he gets away with it, it's sadly Ford's own fault, because her decades of silence shattered her credibility completely and made any wrongdoing 100% impossible to prove. It's harsh, but it's the truth. Her chance to be a hero came and went a long time ago; now she's just playing politics.
If there were a 30 year old police report talking about what he had done I would still believe her, but with all the evidence that's pretty much showing she's a liar and manipulator I can't how ANYONE can agree with her.

No this is about power. The left is losing theirs because they went crazy. It's that simple.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:29 PM   #27
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:31 PM   #28
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The thing is, a person hears an accusation of a terrible crime, and their empathy kicks in. They think, "God, if that had ever happened to me...!" and it affects them, especially if they're a woman and it DID happen to them. They start thinking with emotion rather than logic, and suddenly, accusations become fact, and to be Accused is the same as being Guilty, despite our entire system being set up specifically so that DOESN'T become the standard.

We all want to believe that people are inherently decent and good - well, MOST people; I kinda gave up on that sh*t a long time ago - so we say, "Well, WHY would anyone lie about something like that?" Lots of reasons. Attention, faulty memory, even payola is never totally out of the question. Maybe stuff happened, but it wasn't who the person claims it was, and they genuinely can't remember because so many years have passed? Or maybe they just want to be on TV and be called a hero. People aren't as decent and pure as some want to believe, and lots of women completely fabricate just these kinds of stories.

That doesn't mean SHE'S lying - although as you said, it's not looking good for her story - but it does mean that we can't just believe any person who says, "This happened, and you have to believe me because I say so, or else you're a monster."
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:37 PM   #29
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I can't really call it. Either the Democrats found a leftist so unhinged that they figured they could use her for their own ends (and there's no shortage of them), or more likely, as a leftist activist she was willing to risk becoming a martyr for the cause by perjuring herself. Take one for the team.

I generally believe she's telling a version of the truth, though. I just don't think Kavanaugh was there in the actual truth.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:43 PM   #30
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you boys can discuss 'til you're blue whether or not this former drunken fratboy assaulted Ford, but he sure didn't handle the situation well and clearly isn't fit with his temperamental on the supreme court. But we all know why the republicans want him in despite by now he shouldn't even be touched with a 10' long pole dunked in holy water and Tabasco sauce by anyone that have a political career.

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Old 10-05-2018, 04:51 PM   #31
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you buys can discuss 'til you're blue whether or not this former drunken fratboy assaulted Ford, but he sure didn't handle the situation well and clearly isn't fit with his temperamental on the supreme court. But we all know why the republicans want him in despite by now he shouldn't even be touched with a 10' long pole dunked in holy water and Tabasco sauce by anyone that have a political career.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:57 PM   #32
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As I said, to me the reaction was entirely consistent with the nature of the accusation. Especially if he's innocent.

We'll NEVER know if he's truly innocent or not, unfortunately, but I've often been accused of many things I didn't say or do, so I empathize. I saw nothing out of line; "Your accusations could very well ruin my life, and I'm quite upset about that" doesn't tend to come out of one's mouth very softly or gently with stuff like this. I'd truly like to see anyone keep their cool in that kind of situation.

Easy to say he's out of bounds from over here, but when it's your reputation and livelihood on the line... whole different game. Trust me.

The best was when my Dad's girlfriend assaulted my wife, then me, and in the kerfluffle she hit her head on a door frame and charged me with assault. Now the burden's on me to stand up in court and convince them, "No, your honor, I didn't 'beat her up', she got drunk, started attacking people, and hurt herself." Which was the Biblical truth.

I fought it as best I could, and it got argued down, but I still had to plead "Guilty With An Excuse" and pay a hefty fine, because it was a male/female violence situation and by default they believe the woman, even when that woman is a worthless, dishonest, drunken, pill-popping, lying wretch.

I paid the fine, but I still get pissed about it, because I didn't do anything wrong. I was punished because I was accused by a woman, clean and simple. She lied, and I paid for it. I could have gone to jail over it. Not a small thing.

Anyways, she's dead. But I'm tellin' ya, being unjustly accused sucks royally and anyone is perfectly within their rights to respond to accusations with anger if those accusations are false.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:01 PM   #33
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you boys can discuss 'til you're blue whether or not this former drunken fratboy assaulted Ford, but he sure didn't handle the situation well and clearly isn't fit with his temperamental on the supreme court. But we all know why the republicans want him in despite by now he shouldn't even be touched with a 10' long pole dunked in holy water and Tabasco sauce by anyone that have a political career.

Exactly... For a man who is supposedly innocent some of his responses were unnecessarily strange and not showing a temperament suited to the position.

Not even the emotional parts, but responses like “Yeah, and I’m curious if you have” when he was the one testifying, not the woman questioning him. Rude and pompous much? Who does that.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:09 PM   #34
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Question of guilt aside, some folks don't seem very good at Devil's Advocate. Just sayin'.

I want to see some people's reactions if and when they're accused of something as horrific as this. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, you're not gonna be calm or polite about it.

((Shrug))
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:11 PM   #35
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Question of guilt aside, some folks don't seem very good at Devil's Advocate. Just sayin'.

I want to see some people's reactions if and when they're accused of something as horrific as this. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, you're not gonna be calm or polite about it.

((Shrug))
Yeah, Kavanaugh getting pissed and lippy is 100% how I'd be reacting. Hell, I'd probably be close to throwing some punches.

Now, Kavanaugh refusing to disagree with Trump's ridiculous statement about "not being able to indict a sitting President" or whatever that BS is... THAT'S what I have a problem with. That sh!t is far too Nixon for my taste.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:15 PM   #36
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Looking up at the TV, it looks like he's gonna be confirmed, so it's all about to be moot, anyway.

I'll say that I *hope* he's innocent, given the circumstances. But there was never gonna be any way to prove it NOW, anyway. So, if he's guilty, it's really only Ford's fault for not doing anything at all to support her accusations, going back several decades.

Teachable moment, kids. Don't let things linger. I've heard all the excuses, and while I empathize, they don't wash. SAY something and DO something, or else... well, you see.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:22 PM   #37
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Looking up at the TV, it looks like he's gonna be confirmed, so it's all about to be moot, anyway.

I'll say that I *hope* he's innocent, given the circumstances. But there was never gonna be any way to prove it NOW, anyway. So, if he's guilty, it's really only Ford's fault for not doing anything at all to support her accusations, going back several decades.

Teachable moment, kids. Don't let things linger. I've heard all the excuses, and while I empathize, they don't wash. SAY something and DO something, or else... well, you see.
I agree. It'll all be moot. If he IS guilty, I don't think they did a very good job of proving it or going about the investigation.

But politics is a cesspool. Has been longer than I've been around, innocent naive youngling that I am.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:29 PM   #38
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I also kinda think that the Democrats lost all credibility on these sorts of issues in the 90s, what with You-Know-Who and... y'know... all the rapes that he absolutely did and got away with, and how nobody cared because he could play the Saxomophone.

You can't look the other way on sh*t like that for so long, and then suddenly do a 180 and act like this is stuff you absolutely care about and that you truly want justice done. Just doesn't work.
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:31 PM   #39
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Thereís a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didnít come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*
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Old 10-05-2018, 05:36 PM   #40
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Thereís a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didnít come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*


At the end of the day he didn't even rape anyone. At most he held her down laughed at her, got up and walked out of the room. Did he penetrate her in at all? No. You do realize that - AT MOST - he committed misdemeanor assault.
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