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Old 10-07-2018, 08:30 AM   #1121
Leo656
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Y'know what would be great, and easier?

If they just said everything since 2008 never happened and didn't count.

Call it some kind of ripple effect fallout from Final Crisis or something, whatever. Just pick up right from the end of Blackest Night and just carry on from there. Nothing since "Brightest Day" has been good for much. New 52 was dreadful, but trying to soft-reboot some of it and "merge" what's left with the "Real" DCU is too clumsy, from what I've seen. It's good that they realized their mistake - I never even thought they'd go so far as they have to course-correct - but truthfully, it would be a lot better for everyone if they just scrapped the entire last ten years and that was that.

Things had been pretty good for a long while, up until "Brightest Day" fumbled. I'd gladly trade everything since for what we already had before.
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:58 AM   #1122
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I'd been reading more books now than I did back in 2008 because of the entry point provided by Rebirth, though I've also since dropped several since then as they're just ramping up darkness and dysfunction in almost all of them again...there's no guarantee a return to 2008 stuff would be the answer if the same people are in the same positions. Didio especially. Guy's a one trick pony and can't seem to grasp the audience DC has these days is way past the age for edge
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:26 AM   #1123
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We probably define "edge" differently. Sometimes they go a bit far, like "Cry For Justice", but I'll always take a more serious and grounded story over one that's cheesy or silly. I haven't agreed with the "super-heroes are sunshiney kids' stuff" sentiment since I was about 3.

A lot of people who read DC cite "Identity Crisis" as the dividing line as far as taste; either it's fine or "shouldn't exist because that's not how super-hero stories should be," depending on who you ask. I myself had zero problems with the tone of it, there's just too many bits of logical inconsistency, and the ending was a cheat. But the tone and the violence, all that's fine as far as I'm concerned.

Even "Cry For Justice", my problem wasn't that it was dark and violent, it's that it just wasn't very good.

I'unno, I just never understood the "Too Dark" thing when it comes to super-hero comics. Given the subject matter, shouldn't the stories be taken as seriously as possible? Is it because of the capes and costumes? That hardly seems to make sense. What's lighthearted about fighting evil or saving the world? To me, "Watchmen" seems to be a much more logical fit for the material than, say, Super-Friends.

"Edge" to me would be, like, Spawn, or better yet the kinda stuff Avatar used to put out when they were doing "Hellena", and they had the rights to all the horror icons like Freddy and Jason. THOSE books were "edgy". "Edgy" like "Hellena f*cking a guy to death while he's getting dragged at high speeds behind a motorcycle, until he's nothing but a pulped corpse." THAT, I would consider "edgy".

So we probably draw the line in different places, I'm assuming.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:36 AM   #1124
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Yeah, for sure, there's times where the edge fits and can be a natural fit, but some titles that are usually associated with fun times and an upswing in momentum but they have to crowbar that angst into them and it doesn't fit much at all.

If it happens somewhere, every so often, it's good, if it happens everywhere, all the time, well...
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:46 AM   #1125
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I'unno. All super-hero stories are based in eternal, ceaseless conflict by definition. "Fun" isn't what I expect from the genre. I mean, they are fun, but I've never picked up a super-hero comic expecting to laugh much, or feel too "uplifted". I pretty much get what I expect, what with all the Tragic Origins and All Problems Need To Be Solved With Violence that are inherent in the very fabric and all.

Except, of course, for the obvious exception of Fight-Man, aka "Bill & Ted's Favorite Super-Hero". THAT book, was a riot. Sadly, it was only a one-shot... but "One Shot Is All He Needs!"

Although literally the whole world hated Fight-Man and wanted him dead, so while it was definitely funny I can't say it was at all uplifting. Shucks!
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:30 AM   #1126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
I'unno. All super-hero stories are based in eternal, ceaseless conflict by definition. "Fun" isn't what I expect from the genre.
Ah, post-"Seduction" there was a more innocent times...probably bored the pants off an over 20, but they convinced the boomers like me heroes were heroes.

There's a reason Brave and the Bold is the only other well loved Batman cartoon besides anything from the DCAU.
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Old 10-07-2018, 05:33 PM   #1127
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I actually think B&B was one of the better Batman cartoons and did what it was trying to do very well. It was also a lot more comics-faithful than most, even though the humorous stuff generally isn't my taste. It's not my go-to, but I respect it.

That said, from my angle, "Heroism" is born of struggle, it's what we endure that makes us strong, and the higher the stakes, the better the story. Even AS a kid, I never liked the stuff aimed at kids. My first comic books were Action Comics Annual #1 ("Cry, Vampire!"), Adventures of Superman Annual #1 (The Trudeau Incident), and the three-part "Supergirl Saga" which ended with Superman killing Zod. Very impactful stuff for a 4-year old.

Super-Friends was in its latter (and superior) seasons at the time, and while I still watched and enjoyed it, even at that age I much preferred the comic books and their more serious take. I never looked back. As a collector I still picked up back issues and reprints of the Silver Age stuff, but to me it was all too silly. Even then, I had a very hard time getting into anything that was explicitly aimed at children; He-Man was an exception, but I was mostly drawn in by the more serious mini-comics and storybooks rather than the cartoons.

I'm sure it's not true for every individual, but in general I've noticed that people who primarily get into super-heroes through cartoon shows (or those Reeve movies) tend to prefer the lighter, kid-friendly model, while those who prefer the comics favor the more serious take. Probably not true of everyone, but it's something I've noticed among people I know.

The DCU has always been a PG-13/R-Rated universe to me, so when people accuse them of "going dark", it puzzles me because I've never known it to be any other way and it's what I prefer.
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Old Today, 08:40 AM   #1128
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I always saw many similarities to Wonder Woman and Aquaman and thought they could have a relationship similar to Batman and Superman. I am glad to see them play off each other and also partnering their archenemies in their respective thin rogues galleries.

Looking ahead Hawkgirl meets Hawkgirl in #15. Can anyone clear up how Sheira Hall and Kendra Saunders work? Is confusing and reboots dont help sort out the matter! On top of that the Earth-1 JLA member who inspired the cartoon version was killed off in Rann-Thagar War.
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