Shooting at high school in Parkland, Fla.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

As for your last question on whether or not a average citizen needs an AR 15 to defend themselves I personally say no. I'm okay with citizens owning guns such as rifles, pistols and shotguns and I'm also okay with conceal or open carry but I'm sorry I don't see why an average person needs an AR-15. Also I think we need to make it harder for people to buy guns.

If anyone needs a firearm as AR-15 for home defense they gotta be a really crappy shooter though, and doesn't take the responsibility to be able to aim and fire their weapon accurately with any ounce of respect.

Seems more it's a weapon to have lying around on the off chance when a homeintruder do happen you can finally live out your Rambo Macho Fantasy and use "self-defense" as a excuse to spray your home full of bullets and maybe hit whoever entered your home. Red bandanna and baby oil included.

Someone that actually knows guns, knows how guns work, respect the destruction a firearm can and will do, should be able to defend their home which is most likely a closed and narrow space to begin with, use a handgun.

[plastroncafe]

I know jack-all about guns, again because being someone with a mental illness that's had a history of suicidal ideation means I keep away from them for my own safety, but from what I understand this particular weapon that everyone's fighting over is the firearm equivalent of a cool toy.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

from what I understand this particular weapon that everyone's fighting over is the firearm equivalent of a cool toy.

The AR-15? As far as I'm aware, it's basically a semi-automatic variation of an M-16. It's a weapon designed to kill people. So it's no surprise it's frequently used in mass shootings.

[Andrew NDB]

6 reasons your right wing buddy is never going to budge on gun control:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/...e-gun-control/

Seems about right. Not perfect, but close.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

6 reasons your right wing buddy is never going to budge on gun control:

http://thefederalist.com/2017/10/06/...e-gun-control/

Seems about right. Not perfect, but close.

Wow, that person is creepy.

[dl316bh]

It seemed somewhat reasonable as far as these sort of articles go right up until the last two - and at least it admits that they don't come to the table in good faith - but that's a whole thing I don't feel like talking about right now.

I genuinely wish second amendment defenders put as much time and effort into defending the fourth too. Maybe then we could get back to a place where getting on an airplane isn't a gigantic hassle where you show them everything but your privates (and they might even see those with some of the machines they have).

[Andrew NDB]

I know, I know, this is Fox News, but this is a little concerning. Unless we're assuming this shooting survivor is a liar:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...town_hall.html

[The Deadman]

Apparently the school cop went outside and hid the entire time this was happening, and then ended up retiring when he was suspended. I also came across a Twitter thread in which someone did some research into why the cop never engaged the shooter and he apparently uncovered a thing in where students are immune to being arrested.

https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/s...54507744374784

[plastroncafe]

Got a pull quote, Andrew?
I'm not really inclined to give that site more ad money with a click.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

Got a pull quote, Andrew?
I'm not really inclined to give that site more ad money with a click.

"COLTON HAAB: So what had happened was four days ago I had gotten contacted by a lady named [State of the Union executive producer] Carrie Stevenson from CNN. She had asked me originally to just write a speech. It was going to be at the town hall at the BB&T Center [in Sunrise, Florida]. So I agreed. I felt like it would be the right thing to do. Be able to go speak my part as well as open eyes to a few things that I thought that can make this situation a little better. From there, three days ago, so the next day after that I had gotten an email back from her and she asked for more of questions rather than a speech. Which I was totally fine with so I wrote a little less of a speech and more of questions that I wanted to ask at the town hall. The day after that it was more of just questions. She asked for just questions that I would like to ask."

"So, I gave her my questions and then yesterday, at about 5:15, I made contact with her. And she had asked if I had just asked her one question. So what they had actually done was wrote out a question for me because in my interview with CNN, I had talked about arming the teachers, if they were willing to arm themselves in the school to carry on campus. And they had -- she had taken that of what I had briefed on and actually wrote that question out for me."

"I mean, honestly, it was very shocking to me because we just went through such a horrific tragedy. For them to take that and now make such a big newscast over what they want to hear, it was very upsetting to me," Haab answered.

[dl316bh]

http://www.businessinsider.com/parkl...18-2?r=UK&IR=T

CNN says that Stevenson and Colton agreed on one question that Colton would ask, but that Haab's father, Glenn Haab, intervened, sending a lengthy speech (see below) that he wanted Colton to read, which included three questions for lawmakers.

Stevenson responded that the speech was "way too long" and that Colton "needs to stick" to the question they agreed on. Glenn then responded that he and his son "are not actors" and that Colton would not participate in the town hall if he could not read the full speech.

On Friday afternoon, Fox News and the HuffPost reached out to CNN to verify emails between the Haabs and Stevenson that they received from Colton.

A CNN source provided Colton's version of the emails, as well as their versions of all of the communications between the Haabs and CNN, to Business Insider.

In CNN's version of one email, Stevenson told Glenn that Colton needed to stick to a question that he and Stevenson "discussed on the phone that he submitted." But in the version of the email provided by Colton to Fox and HuffPost, the phrase, "that he submitted" is deleted.

According to the metadata of the Word document containing the email that was provided to Fox, it appears that Glenn last edited it.

So, basically, he sent a question, it was agreed on, Dad sent a lengthy speech instead, CNN said "yo, we want to get the questions in quick, it would be best for him to stick to what we agreed", Dad didn't like that, sent edited correspondence e-mails to Fox News and the Word document with them says they were last edited by the Dad.

[The Deadman]

I'm laughing at the fact that theyre blaming video games for this, because we all know once you pick up a controller to any console, that means you're a homicidal maniac.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Only against aliens, terrorists, evil dictatorships, or fantasy monsters.... (Death to all Orcs, ISIS, Covenant, and Imperial Troops!)

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by The Deadman

I'm laughing at the fact that theyre blaming video games for this, because we all know once you pick up a controller to any console, that means you're a homicidal maniac.

Well that does explain why Japan has one of the highest mass shootings.

[The Deadman]

This kid is trying way too hard to get his name out there at this point

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...mpression=true

I get he's a survivor and it's still tragic what happened but he's being way too involved in the media and is coming off like a crisis actor

[Candy Kappa]

Ah. So a young person that gets politically after a terrorist attack is a "crisis actor", guess we have a lot of "crisis actors" here in Norway after 22. July, although the kids where already members of Norway's Labor Party Juniors, so i guess that don't count.

Cause "crisis actor" is a term for a young person that gets politically active after being a victim of a massacre, right? And not a ****** derogatory term to undermine a person's actions and wants to enact change so said massacre(s) won't happen again, cause that would be pretty scummy to use.

[dl316bh]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.8d06e0813463

This explains a fair amount of the confusion surrounding the whole thing and just kind of solidifies that certain parts of the internet are a total sewer.

This also happened, which is another reason "arming teachers" is a terrible plan.

https://uproxx.com/news/georgia-teac...d-high-school/

Originally Posted by The Deadman

I get he's a survivor and it's still tragic what happened but he's being way too involved in the media and is coming off like a crisis actor

A former student walked in and shot up his school. The government has done next to nothing about mass shootings - it's not even just school shootings - despite the fact that they've been on the rise. He has every right to be pissed and get active. You don't get anything done or help bolster awareness by fading to the background and letting the whole thing die away.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by dl316bh

This also happened, which is another reason "arming teachers" is a terrible plan.

Whether or not there is official "we're arming teachers now" legislature... that particular teacher still would have brought his gun to school regardless because that's what he set out to do that morning. That wouldn't have stopped this incident, not remotely.

And "arming teachers" can be a bad plan, it can even be a "terrible plan"... though so far it appears to be the only plan being bandied about (and I say that loosely, no one is seriously looking into it) in official channels that has even the smallest, most infinitesimal chance of preventing actual, in-progress school shootings. Everything else is, "Ban on all scary, yet imaginary 'assault rifles'! I don't care if they pose the same risk as pistols, we can get to those, too after this when the next school shooting comes around!" "Pre-crime! We can stop... eh, some of these before they happen... maybe! Let's make healthcare more affordable for 17 year-olds to admit themselves!" "Let's make it a little more difficult to get guns! If we can't stop school shootings, maybe we can delay them a little, or make them somewhat more inconvenient for the gunmen!" <---- none of these things address protection for our children during actual shootings. Which will happen again.

And just sitting there going, "You can't arm teachers! That's a stupid plan!!!"... really? It's kind of like, arguing with someone who says, "I disagree with you," (it could be on anything) without offering their own opinion to counter. I mean, what's your better plan to protect students during actual shootings, if you're going to sh** on my plan?

*Note: I'm not saying let's arm teachers. There are better, less... difficult alternatives. But that could work.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Ah. So a young person that gets politically after a terrorist attack is a "crisis actor", guess we have a lot of "crisis actors" here in Norway after 22. July, although the kids where already members of Norway's Labor Party Juniors, so i guess that don't count.

Cause "crisis actor" is a term for a young person that gets politically active after being a victim of a massacre, right? And not a ****** derogatory term to undermine a person's actions and wants to enact change so said massacre(s) won't happen again, cause that would be pretty scummy to use.

Apparently it's not even a new tactic.

After any major attack, you are likely to find in some dark corner of the internet conspiracy theories that the survivors or victims made it all up or were part of a troupe of paid “crisis actors.”

Such theories emerged after the massacres in Las Vegas in October; at a gay nightclub in Orlando, Fla., in 2016; and at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., in 2012. It happened again this month, after 17 people were killed in the school shooting in Parkland, Fla.

Those conspiracy theories have been amplified in the internet age, but they are a part of a long, troubled history of dismissing the voices of those seeking change.

“This theme that anyone agitating for change must be either an outside agitator or must have been paid or put up to it is one that runs throughout American history,” Kevin M. Kruse, a history professor at Princeton University, said in a phone interview.

Conspiracies of this kind quickly circulated about the Florida shooting, with one top-trending YouTube video suggesting, falsely, that one of the survivors was a hired actor. The video’s caption tapped into the idea that student protesters were paid to advocate gun control, and Mr. Kruse pointed his followers on Twitter to a decades-old analog: In 1957, civil rights supporters had to dispel rumors that nine black children seeking to integrate Central High School in Little Rock, Ark., were being paid for their activism.

That strategy of dismissing protest as being funded or imported by outsiders was commonly used during the civil rights movement to minimize racial tension or brush aside genuine demands for equality.

After Orlando Shooting, ‘False Flag’ and ‘Crisis Actor’ Conspiracy Theories Surface JUNE 28, 2016

After Florida School Shooting, Russian ‘Bot’ Army Pounced FEB. 19, 2018
“It’s a perennial theme of segregationists that this activism is not sincere, that it’s not Americans advocating for their own rights but rather it’s a scam,” Mr. Kruse said.

‘Crisis Actor’ Isn’t a New Smear. The Idea Goes Back to the Civil War Era. (new york times)

[Utrommaniac]

Kind of like how "fake news" is just "yellow journalism" under a new name.

Dick's Sporting Goods, meanwhile, is stopping the sale of "assault style" weapons and will no longer sell guns to anyone under the age of 21.

And now...my list of reasons why arming teachers is a bad idea

• Not every school can afford to arm their teachers
• Not every teacher can afford to even manage upkeep guns, let alone by them
• Not every teacher is physically or mentally equipped to be trusted with gun
• Adequate training takes a very long time
• EVERYTHING that happens to Jordan Klepper here. Training is strenuous, it doesn't guarantee being prepared for an active shooter, the chances of shooting a student on instinct, being mistaken for the shooter by the authorities and getting shot at by them...
• Regardless of the rules, there are teachers who will more than likely threaten their "out of control" students with their gun or even actually use them.
• Schools shouldn't have to be made into potentially warzones so students can safely learn...and such an environment would be likely to make them anxious. Because it's not like our teenagers have enough anxiety as it is from all their schoolwork.