Does anyone else prefer the OT mutants over the 4kids/Nick ones?

[CyberCubed]

For a long time I'm been trying to figure out why all the old Fred Wolf/Playmates/Archie mutants were more memorable and likeable than a lot of the 4kids or Nick mutant characters. And then I realized why:

The old 80's and 90's mutants were actual characters. They had personalities, and weren't just mindless monsters or freaks that couldn't speak. Also their designs were based on animals which gave them an eye-pleasing feel, they weren't overdesigned with spikes and rotten eggs (like Dogpound and/or Pidgeon Pete).

1) Just look at how in the 4kids series that none of the mutants could speak except for Quarry. They were all literally treated like mindless monsters. Same for the ones that appeared in Season 4, and the cockroach mutant in that show. They also all seemed to be based off of bugs to me, and other type of dwelling creatures.

2) In the Nick series Dogpound and Fishface kept their personalities, but others like Snakeweed, Cockroach terminator, Justin, etc either don't speak or are treated as monsters.


Look at how memorable Groundchuck and Dirtbag were despite only appearing in like 2 episodes. Their characterisation was extremely good for a mutant bull and mole...and weren't just treated like mindless freaks. People love Slash, the Mutanimals, Leatherhead, Bebop/Rocksteady, even Rahzar/Tokka for this reason.

I hope the Nick series realizes this and improves the characterisations of the mutants.

[Powder]

I definitely prefer the originals, yes. They were the most grotesque and funkedelic baddies out! They were for the most part outright gross or terrifying in concept, if not just pretty cool/badass. The personality definitely went a long way too. At least Nick is getting that right with some of their mutants, like DP & FF. I don't mind that others are more primal, though, I think to some extent it can work to their advantage. An ominous cybernetic roach who doesn't speak and just stares you down is terrifying as hell, I think, haha.

[cartoonistaaron]

I think the old show had better, simpler mutant designs - but I think they owe more to the Playmates Toys people than to the cartoon's character designers. Which may mean the Mirage crew (who came up with a lot of those toy designs) were better designers than the crew working on the 4Kids show (which was slick but bland).

The new show has okay designs but the concepts themselves aren't as strong, I don't think. It's hard to improve on the visual of a humanoid rhinoceros or warthog. Dogpound is okay but he doesn't have that, I dunno, "iconic" feel of Rocksteady or Bebop.

[Xav]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

1) Just look at how in the 4kids series that none of the mutants could speak except for Quarry. They were all literally treated like mindless monsters. Same for the ones that appeared in Season 4, and the cockroach mutant in that show. They also all seemed to be based off of bugs to me, and other type of dwelling creatures.

2) In the Nick series Dogpound and Fishface kept their personalities, but others like Snakeweed, Cockroach terminator, Justin, etc either don't speak or are treated as monsters.

To be fair the Dark Turtles, and mutant Hun could speak in the 4kids series. As well as Spider Bytez and Pete from the Nick series. Also I think it is more realistic to have characters like Spy Roach and Justin not speak, as unlike Bradford or Xever they weren't humans originally so they wouldn't know English right away.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by cartoonistaaron

I think the old show had better, simpler mutant designs - but I think they owe more to the Playmates Toys people than to the cartoon's character designers. Which may mean the Mirage crew (who came up with a lot of those toy designs) were better designers than the crew working on the 4Kids show (which was slick but bland).

The new show has okay designs but the concepts themselves aren't as strong, I don't think. It's hard to improve on the visual of a humanoid rhinoceros or warthog. Dogpound is okay but he doesn't have that, I dunno, "iconic" feel of Rocksteady or Bebop.

I kind of agree. The abstract designs for Spiderbitez is odd, a mutant spider could have been very well designed but they went with a weird shape for him.

There was just something about the way the old mutants were made where they weren't complex or overdesigned, but still looked good.

[Jephael]

I always found the H.A.V.O.C. mutants from season 8 fascinating. I kinda wish we had gotten to see more of them.

[Coola Yagami]

The mutants kind of had more of a backstory or character traits that influenced their designs. Bebop and Rocksteady were gangsters, and they dressed up as such even after being mutated. Leatherhead was a canjun gator so he dressed and talked accordingly. Groundchuck and Dirtbag were given weird armor and miner gear to wear. Scumbug used to be an exterminator, so he dressed like that and was armed with killer bug spray. Even Ace Duck was dressed like a pilot.

Here... they just become weird monsters, and some of them can't talk. Dogpound at least got to keep his dogi-ish pants, but everyone else... If this was the OT, Snakeweed woulda been dressed like a truck driver... Spider Bytes would have looked more like a spider, but still dressed like Vic making middle-aged man jokes, and Fishface would have still have legs and be wearing whatever was left of his original outfit.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

For a long time I'm been trying to figure out why all the old Fred Wolf/Playmates/Archie mutants were more memorable and likeable than a lot of the 4kids or Nick mutant characters. And then I realized why:

The old 80's and 90's mutants were actual characters. They had personalities, and weren't just mindless monsters or freaks that couldn't speak. Also their designs were based on animals which gave them an eye-pleasing feel, they weren't overdesigned with spikes and rotten eggs (like Dogpound and/or Pidgeon Pete).

YES!! This is why I love the OT mutants- better design, more personality, and more POTENTIAL! for me, IT WAS THE ANTHROPOMORPHIC MUTANTS OF THE OT/PLAYMATES FIGS that made TMNT. Mona Lisa, Mondo Gecko, Ray Fillet, Rocksteady and Bebop... these characters are more TMNT than anything the 2003 series, Red Sky, or- hate me all you want- Mirage series threw at us. I'll definitely shall out $$$ for anything that features these characters again!

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Leatherhead in the 2012 show is an awesome character! (and even in the 2003 show)

[grungethemovie]

i agree with the OT mutants being more memorable
Coola Yagami noticed something very interesting in their designs, they were mash-ups, they were not concepted as just monster-animal, but as anthropomorphic characters, giving them a background that gave them more complexity.
it's a win formula to make interesting characters - punk/warthog and rhino, superhero/bat, ninja/turtes, kung fu/panda, samurai/rabbit and so on

As for nick mutants...well, seems like if you're in a wife-beater and jeans you better not hang around the turtles - ok, the joke got old cause it only applies to the first 2, but i feel they're just creating some eye-candy grotesque monsters without giving them a raison d'etre.
snake is a too-old-for-nick casey jones that was a driver for kraang? (even though they were never shown with any kind of association with humans after - besides the "scientists" that are pretty much just april's dad - that looks like joss whedon) spiderbite is a grumpy old man that doesn't like the turtles?
maybe they were just trying some discartable mutants to start off, ut what they're gonna do? kill them? (well, they try, but it seems snakeweed's heart will keep beating- until we forget him again)
and everyone enjoying dogpond and fishface, lemme tell you a secret - you don't - it's bradford and xever that were the good characters we cared for, i'm still to see them used well after their mutation, if we started the series after that, we'll see how they were way more present, interesting - and relevant - as humans...*sob (and bradford was awesome even in his first appearance - shredder jr - i miss that :/)

but i guess leatherhead is always awesome, right?XD

[miru]

I agree with the pre-Red Sky tmnt chars being better because of them.being more characters than beasts.

I like the fact that the Nicktoon has plenty of people-mutants in addition to the beast mutants. The beast-mutants here have this grotesque; almost abstract feel that I like better than the sleek, boring look used by 2k3. I want to see some of the old mutant characters (especially Mona Lisa, Venus Di Milo, and Ninjara) return on the Nick show.

[Ninjinister]

I actually like the kooky action-figure only mutants like Hotspot, Halfcourt, Sandstorm, Monty Moose, and so forth, the best.

[pannoni1]

4kids wasn't a mutant-heavy series so it was more about raw Ninja action, but those that were specially created for the series (not the comic adaptions) aren't that memorable.

But I prefer the OT/Nick mutants, since this allows extra surprises in battle and often leads to more exciting, funny moments. They have a wide range of personality types and have the more memorable action figures. Nick's tend to be bigger and tougher while the OT's are funnier with more clever attack moves.

[LH]

Originally Posted by Original TMNT Cartoon Fan

Leatherhead in the 2012 show is an awesome character! (and even in the 2003 show)

Originally Posted by grungethemovie

but i guess leatherhead is always awesome, right?XD

With this I must agree.

I believe every version of each character has something unique to offer. While I know little of the OT Leatherhead, the 2003 and 2012 versions of the character, while similar, are both uniquely complex and have qualities and personalities that make them both very memorable.

[plasticturtle]

I definately prefer the OT mutants. I just like their looks and personalities better than anything seen in the last two shows ( though Leatherhead may be the exception to this. I really like the Nick version. )

[Plasticplayhouse]

i prefer the OT mutants compared to any of the other versions. the nick show had a really good leatherhead though.

[Miles]

*raises hand*

Totally. The character design was much more pleasing in the OT, and actually matched the Turtles' style of mutation as opposed to whatever wacky 'monster-of-the-week' iteration the Nick designers are coming up with. In my mind, it's one of the primary points I dislike about the new show - the character design.

Regarding Leatherhead, I have to say that the OT/Archie version is my favorite. I mean come on, Ragin' Cajun'? Can you get any more cool? Being an inter-dimensional lab rat is just...so beneath the awesomeness that is an anthropomorphic alligator.

[MikeandRaph87]

Originally Posted by Miles

*raises hand*

Totally. The character design was much more pleasing in the OT, and actually matched the Turtles' style of mutation as opposed to whatever wacky 'monster-of-the-week' iteration the Nick designers are coming up with. In my mind, it's one of the primary points I dislike about the new show - the character design.

Regarding Leatherhead, I have to say that the OT/Archie version is my favorite. I mean come on, Ragin' Cajun'? Can you get any more cool? Being an inter-dimensional lab rat is just...so beneath the awesomeness that is an anthropomorphic alligator.

Amen,bro! I loved Leatherhead's dialogue and cannot erase Leatherhead as a vilalin out of my head. He does not have to be a ragin' cajun but evil is what Leatherhead best serves.

The designs of the '87 cartoon era were 1. meancing 2. bada$$ and cool 3. Most all of them could speak and were not the generic monsters that Laird perferred or Nick likes to split between. Being a generic monster takes away the "cool" factor and takes away personality. This is a good reason why the TMNT took off like it did.

Scumbug vs Cockroach Terminator? Scumbug would have been better here not because he is a little used preexisting character but because he had a personality that was in need of exploring and his ability to speak and have character made him more interesting than that speechless monstrosity. I mean Cockroach Terminator is an okay character but is not as cool as Scumbug becasue of that. I do give props for the design though.

[Loudo]

Mutants are one of my least favorite things about the OT... Most of the time you have to keep reminding yourself they are mutants, because if they had just been normal humans the story would have been pretty much the same.
I know that in a world where you can just wear a coat and everyone will believe you're human, being a mutant isn't as tragic as it should be, but come on. Rocksteady and Bepop feature in almost every episode, they could have shown us a glimpse of them having problems "finding a date on a Saturday night".

The Nick show has the same problem to an extent, but at least the newly mutated humans use their new powers to attack the turtles in blind rage. That could count as some sort of emotional response, I suppose.

In the 4kids show, when a character mutates, that's a very important element for that character's personal story and development.
Quarry, Leatherhead, Finn, the Dark Turtles and Hun all felt real characters to me, dealing with their mutation in a very believable way.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Loudo

Mutants are one of my least favorite things about the OT... Most of the time you have to keep reminding yourself they are mutants, because if they had just been normal humans the story would have been pretty much the same.
I know that in a world where you can just wear a coat and everyone will believe you're human, being a mutant isn't as tragic as it should be, but come on. Rocksteady and Bepop feature in almost every episode, they could have shown us a glimpse of them having problems "finding a date on a Saturday night".

What are you talking about? Most humans ran away in fear when they saw mutants in the old show.

And the mutants we did see either had tragic stories or were dumb animals to begin with so they liked their higher intelliigent. Bebop/Rocksteady liked being mutants and were probably too dumb to care.