Obamacare ruled unconstitutional by federal judge

[Icebot]

Obamacare has just been ruled unconstitutional.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/fede...ry?id=59834094

[Andrew NDB]

Well, specifically the individual mandate (i.e., you don't want to or can't afford to carry insurance this year? get ready for a big fine come tax time!) part. Which I agree is unconstitutional... and unjust. I know a lot of hard-working people that have been getting hit hard by this, like my best friend's mom. She's been a dental hygienist for 30 years through a service that assigns her here or there. She pays out of pocket when she needs to go to the doctor and never gets employer-provided healthcare. Last 2 years bam, both times, $2000 fine for not having health coverage. Crippling.

Just for fun I went to the ACA signup page to see what it would do for me. It would be $400 more a month for me to sign up for it vs. the $60 I pay a month right now for my already crappy job-provided insurance, getting even worse deductibles than I do now. Are you kidding me?

[Candy Kappa]

It would be delicious if the Individual Mandate was a part of the stuff Republicans showed into ACA.

What a freakishly alien system you Americans have when it comes to healthcare.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Just for fun I went to the ACA signup page to see what it would do for me. It would be $400 more a month for me to sign up for it vs. the $60 I pay a month right now for my already crappy job-provided insurance, getting even worse deductibles than I do now. Are you kidding me?

don't say that. you'll have all those democrats who think obama is wonderful and scandal free after you.

but, yeah. obama care, ESPECIALLY the kingly mandate that you HAVE to pay for it or get taxed, really needed to go.

[neatoman]

Time to wait for delicious outrage videos.

Funny thing, the plan that became Obamacare was originally put up by a republican, yet that almost never comes into consideration when people form their opinion of it. Really speaks volumes about what little difference there actually is between the two parties.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Really speaks volumes about what little difference there actually is between the two parties.

Well, they are both right-winged parties.

[BartAllen]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Well, they are both right-winged parties.

On that we can agree. The difference, in my view, is that the left tries to present itself like it's out to help people when in reality it just taxes them to death with a promise of fixing all of their problems.

I think you think 'the right' means fascism. It doesn't. The right is about small government and limited taxes. It wants people to be judged by their actions not their immutable characteristics. The modern political right is far more open to diversity than the modern left.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

The right is about small government and limited taxes.

The modern political right is far more open to diversity than the modern left.

Maybe on paper where it sounds good. Not so good at putting it into practice...

[Leo656]

Well, the left definitely isn't much for diversity of THOUGHT, or belief.

"Think like me or you're a horrible person who deserves no peace" is a general rule over there. I mean, just going by what they say all the time.

To the topic, yeah, that system wasn't ever gonna work for me. I rarely go to the doctor, and I shouldn't be treated like a criminal for not wanting to buy something I don't really need. I always found that bit crazy.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

It would be delicious if the Individual Mandate was a part of the stuff Republicans showed into ACA.

What a freakishly alien system you Americans have when it comes to healthcare.

Yeah honestly our healthcare system is a complete joke...... I am glad to hear they killed the individual mandate. Its so freaking stupid, if they want more people to sign up give a tax credit for those who sign up instead of penalizing those who don't. Or make a system that benefits people! (Mind blowing!)

[Andrew NDB]

People aren't looking at the big picture here. The core problem is that basic medicine, doctor visits, prescription drugs and all of that are about 10,000% higher than they need to be. When they bring that number down to the actual, fair numbers, we can talk about "healthcare for all," otherwise it would just be spreading out an INSANE and unjust cost to everybody who may or may not even be using it. But there doesn't appear to be any momentum on this at all.

[Vegita-San]

if the wrong people are making money head over fist, why should they?

[Andrew NDB]

And I don't get it. If I lost my job tomorrow and the medical insurance therein, then next month I break my leg and need surgery that costs $3000. Whether I have insurance or not, unless I have $3000 in my pocket to pay the cost directly or $3000 in my pocket to pay the $3000 insurance deductible, what's the difference here if I don't have $3000 in my pocket? The only difference is that I was being dinged every month for insurance payments when I had it. The idea that I need to carry insurance or face a fine just to be able to pay a $3000 insurance deductible I don't have for doctor visits I may or may not even have doesn't seem right at all.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by BartAllen

I think you think 'the right' means fascism..

AHAHAHAHA!!!

No, don't be silly.

I think the American Republican Party is shady af, cause it is. I live in a country that have diverse parties across the political spectrum, and even our most hard right-winged party that isn't straight up the Nazi party isn't close to how hard right-winged the Repulicans are.

Fairly certain I've not stated that I think the Repuplicans are fascists, although they sure have some of the dendencies.

And that's what I mean when I say both American parties are right-winged, the Repuplicans are hard right and the Democrats are at best, on a good day; center-right.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

People aren't looking at the big picture here. The core problem is that basic medicine, doctor visits, prescription drugs and all of that are about 10,000% higher than they need to be. When they bring that number down to the actual, fair numbers, we can talk about "healthcare for all," otherwise it would just be spreading out an INSANE and unjust cost to everybody who may or may not even be using it. But there doesn't appear to be any momentum on this at all.

Thats literally not even half the problem.....
Half the problem is Insurance companies price gouging people and set record profits....

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Redeemer

Half the problem is Insurance companies price gouging people and set record profits....

Maybe so. But insurance costs are largely high because medical costs are high. The very essence of insurance, whether it is car or auto or fire, is the insurance company saying, "I bet you're going to get into _____ trouble (car accident, house fire, etc.)" and you saying, "No, I'm not." And then when you have to use it (for example, you break a bone and need medical attention), the insurance company pays out for it.

The trouble now is that when all of the medical costs and drugs and malpractice insurance associated with modern medicine in the United States, even basic things cost a ton of money (i.e., the blown out costs of things like insulin and epipens). A ton of money. So these insurance companies have to pay out a ton of money. So now we have HUGE deductibles we have to pay out of pocket before the insurance companies pay anything now, and when they do it isn't much.

So forcing people to pay and carry shi**y insurance isn't doing anyone any good beyond liberals holding hands going, "YAY! Everyone has insurance now, like the 'more advanced countries'!" while saving no lives. Let's fix the core problems.

[ABrown]

There are a lot of employers (like my current employer) who have been left with no choice over the last few years other than to stop offering PPO and HMO, and now only offer high deductible, due to the higher prices that the insurance companies have left businesses with since Obamacare began.

[Redeemer]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Maybe so. But insurance costs are largely high because medical costs are high.

This would be true except.... THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING RECORD SETTING PROFITS

Medical care is out of control yes, I can completely agree with that, but people act like its a single person, practice or cause that hurts our ability to have affordable health insurance, but it's multiple factors.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Am I the only one here who has actually been on the benefitting side of it? People like me and Mr D, who would be paying 800$ a WEEK OUT OF POCKET without it, for treatments that are literally keeping him alive. And that is JUST for the dialysis itself. That's more than my entire paycheck! But thankfully, he has his ACA aid. (This includes medications- his ACA insurance and Medicare/SSDI pay for almost everything. Our OoP expense for meds are usually 1-2$ per prescription.) My job, in contrast, offers only a plan that has a 6,000$ deductible, most of which is out of pocket, before it even pays anything. I turned it down. BUT! I don't even make enough in a year to have ever been "taxed" for not having it. (This loophole for low-income families was ALWAYS there, so I don't get the hate that people have for it, unless they make over the "lower limit" income to avoid the tax penulty. It is 24,000$/yr, btw.)

[Leo656]

Nobody denies life-saving care though. My father almost died a dozen times and had I don't know how many heart surgeries. He used to open his hospital bills just to show me and laugh, before throwing them in the trash.

If a person is in life-threatening condition, they still have to treat you. They just HOPE to get paid "something", but a huge number of people simply don't pay their medical bills. That's partly why everything costs so much on paper; they have to make up the difference somewhere. Nobody that I'm aware of gets denied life-saving care, and my family is full of broke, sick, and dying people.

Now, what actually happens is, you just ruin your credit. And if a person can't afford health insurance, their credit is probably already pretty bad anyway. But you can still get care if it's that serious.

I absolutely don't think it's a "good" way to get through life, but the idea that "People die from not being able to pay medical bills" simply isn't true.

In any case, I hope things get better for you both.