Turtles wear red masks again

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

What you consider unimportant people have fond memories of and like Turtles because it has those elements. And calling the 80s series a cheap toy commercial is taking potshots the same way I could call your beloved IDW series a cheap comic series. My opinion and people will disagree but I feel that's out of order man.

Well there's of course the difference that even if you can call what IDW does cheap, you can't really accuse them of producing it for the sole purpose of selling toys (there isn't even any type of merch for it, not even t-shirts), it's made with the purpose of being genuine entertainment.

I mean sure, I have fond memories of the Pokemon anime but I have to admit it doesn't really hold up nor would I really defend the quality, and part of the reason it doesn't hold up is because it wasn't really created for the purpose of being entertaining but rather for the purpose of marketing video games.

[oldmanwinters]

If any Mirage purists yearn to see the red masks on the Nick Turtles, you can always pick up a copy of the "Mix & Match" book!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Muta...zQLrT-FTDzJJPw

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

If any Mirage purists yearn to see the red masks on the Nick Turtles

I do not. There is no reason.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

If any Mirage purists yearn to see the red masks on the Nick Turtles, you can always pick up a copy of the "Mix & Match" book!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Teenage-Muta...zQLrT-FTDzJJPw

I do not see why I should be labeled a 'Mirage purist' for being interested in seeing at least one other version where they wear read masks.

[Powder]

I do not see why you should think he was labeling you or anyone else in this thread.

[oldmanwinters]

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

If anything I would think that would be a reason NOT to. Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from the Foot and it's sullied honor? Even after rejoining, shouldn't they want to forge a new path by giving it a new image and letting Shredder's symbols die with him? Makes more sense than clinging to a past that only tarnishes their reputations.

That's kinda hard to do... even their own fighting style is essentially... the Foot Clan fighting style. Their lives are too tied to the clan to just ignore and distance themselves from it.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Depends on which version we are talking about. AFAIK Yoshi was never IN the Foot EXCEPT in FW (and now IDW and Nick I guess). In the 90's films he was apparently not part of it, nor in 2K3 or even Mirage from what I understand of his backstory there. So no, they would not have been using ANYTHING of the Foot in any of those versions. Thus no reason out of OR in-story for the red masks. It is literally just an arbitrary color choice by the artists.

FTR I have nothing against the red masks. I just don't see why anyone gets so hung up on something so trivial that only confuses things. It's a bit like conplaining that Batman doesn't wear the old 60's outfit anymore.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

I do not see why I should be labeled a 'Mirage purist' for being interested in seeing at least one other version where they wear read masks.

I don't mind them wearing the red masks, I just want them worn for the right reasons.

[snake]

Is this the most Drome-Relevant video of all time?

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Depends on which version we are talking about. AFAIK Yoshi was never IN the Foot EXCEPT in FW (and now IDW and Nick I guess)...

Splinter was never a Foot Clan member in the Nick show. "Vengeance is Mine" and "Tale of the Yokai" establish that he belonged to the Hamato Clan. Shredder was the last survivor of the Foot Clan (which was an enemy of Hamato Clan). As an adult, Shredder rebuilt the Foot, officially starting on the day he attacked Splinter and his family, which leads to the events of the TV show.

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

FTR I have nothing against the red masks. I just don't see why anyone gets so hung up on something so trivial that only confuses things. It's a bit like conplaining that Batman doesn't wear the old 60's outfit anymore.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Well there's of course the difference that even if you can call what IDW does cheap, you can't really accuse them of producing it for the sole purpose of selling toys (there isn't even any type of merch for it, not even t-shirts), it's made with the purpose of being genuine entertainment.

I mean sure, I have fond memories of the Pokemon anime but I have to admit it doesn't really hold up nor would I really defend the quality, and part of the reason it doesn't hold up is because it wasn't really created for the purpose of being entertaining but rather for the purpose of marketing video games.

No that's not right. If you were being insensitive or cynical you could easily say the IDW is as much a cash grab as the Fred Wolf series because the purpose of the IDW series is to bring Viacom money, the same way the 80s cartoon did for Mirage. That's the whole point of a franchise, to make money.

[Candy Kappa]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

even Mirage from what I understand of his backstory there.

.... Not sure what issues you've read, but Yoshi was a member of the Foot Clan in Mirage comics.

[Powder]

Originally Posted by pferreira

No that's not right. If you were being insensitive or cynical you could easily say the IDW is as much a cash grab as the Fred Wolf series because the purpose of the IDW series is to bring Viacom money, the same way the 80s cartoon did for Mirage. That's the whole point of a franchise, to make money.

No, it's definitely right. They literally said we're gonna make a series to sell toys. It being good independent of that fact is a bonus.

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by Powder

No, it's definitely right. They literally said we're gonna make a series to sell toys. It being good independent of that fact is a bonus.

Of course they made it to sell toys but the IDW comic series is meant to make money the same way. They're both exactly the same, there to make money which is why it's a franchise.

After neatoman's last response I asked original series writer Brynne Chandler about fans criticism of the lack of story arcs and the fact it was meant as nothing more than a 'cheap toy commercial'. This is my comment and then what she had to say:

"I know, I hate fans feeling it's inferior to the other Turtles cartoon series, that it lacks depth and was made just to sell toys. I understand you can make that argument with some cartoon shows but I really don't get that at all with this series. Okay the 80's cartoon lacked massive story arcs, gritty action and drama but while I had nothing to do with the Fred Wolf series I take great offence to people saying we can't take it seriously because it has no depth and the writers didn't care." - Me

"It wasn't really possible to do massive story arcs in 80s cartoons because there was no guarantee that the episodes would always be shown in order. Especially in syndication. So, fans complaining about this might want to educate themselves a bit about how the medium worked at that time, yah?" - Brynne Chandler

That's the best response I could get, take it as you will. Personally I happy with it.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by pferreira

Of course they made it to sell toys but the IDW comic series is meant to make money the same way. They're both exactly the same, there to make money which is why it's a franchise.

After neatoman's last response I asked original series writer Brynne Chandler about fans criticism of the lack of story arcs and the fact it was meant as nothing more than a 'cheap toy commercial'. This is my comment and then what she had to say:

"I know, I hate fans feeling it's inferior to the other Turtles cartoon series, that it lacks depth and was made just to sell toys. I understand you can make that argument with some cartoon shows but I really don't get that at all with this series. Okay the 80's cartoon lacked massive story arcs, gritty action and drama but while I had nothing to do with the Fred Wolf series I take great offence to people saying we can't take it seriously because it has no depth and the writers didn't care." - Me

"It wasn't really possible to do massive story arcs in 80s cartoons because there was no guarantee that the episodes would always be shown in order. Especially in syndication. So, fans complaining about this might want to educate themselves a bit about how the medium worked at that time, yah?" - Brynne Chandler

That's the best response I could get, take it as you will. Personally I happy with it.

Yes, it's true that there was a demand for syndication friendly television back then and that the episodes couldn't really form a strong connected narrative, nobody is disputing that. However, in such a scenario the episodes need to work on their own and therein lies the problem.

You're creating a strawman here, the problem isn't that aren't any arcs but that the self contained episodes don't work. Deus ex Machina, padding and contradictions, all common problems in the FW cartoon and you'd probably consider them problems in any other show. Even episodic writing needs to be well paced and make some narrative sense, sorry.

As for your comment on the IDW series being made for profit, there is a rather important difference. The comics themselves are where the profits for IDW lies, the comics are the product so there has to be something keeping the reader interested in buying the book, like a good story. For Fred Wolf it was different, the show was just a means to sell the toys which meant that as long they sold the company could receive funding for the cartoon, as a result it was deemed more profitable to cut corners and the show itself suffered from it.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Yes, it's true that there was a demand for syndication friendly television back then and that the episodes couldn't really form a strong connected narrative, nobody is disputing that. However, in such a scenario the episodes need to work on their own and therein lies the problem.

You're creating a strawman here, the problem isn't that aren't any arcs but that the self contained episodes don't work. Deus ex Machina, padding and contradictions, all common problems in the FW cartoon and you'd probably consider them problems in any other show. Even episodic writing needs to be well paced and make some narrative sense, sorry.

As for your comment on the IDW series being made for profit, there is a rather important difference. The comics themselves are where the profits for IDW lies, the comics are the product so there has to be something keeping the reader interested in buying the book, like a good story. For Fred Wolf it was different, the show was just a means to sell the toys which meant that as long they sold the company could receive funding for the cartoon, as a result it was deemed more profitable to cut corners and the show itself suffered from it.

Word of gospel.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Splinter was never a Foot Clan member in the Nick show. "Vengeance is Mine" and "Tale of the Yokai" establish that he belonged to the Hamato Clan. Shredder was the last survivor of the Foot Clan (which was an enemy of Hamato Clan). As an adult, Shredder rebuilt the Foot, officially starting on the day he attacked Splinter and his family, which leads to the events of the TV show.

Yes I know that Yoshi wasn't technically in the Foot there. However, one could argue that neither was Saki. He was adopted into the Hamato clan, making it one of the FEW places they were ever in the same clan. That was my point sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

.... Not sure what issues you've read, but Yoshi was a member of the Foot Clan in Mirage comics.

Was not aware of that. I had always thought they wrre from rival clans like in the movie. It was never mentioned in any of the issues I have so I just assumed they were from different clans. However, Splinter himself was never part of ANY clan technically. Unless they were into adopting pets into their clan. In any case Splinter raised the turtles as HAMATOs and not Foot. So no, they really had NO association with tbe clan outside of some techniques. Which is kind of my point about not wearing Foot colors. Why would they if they are not even directly associated with it?

[mrmaczaps]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Was not aware of that. I had always thought they wrre from rival clans like in the movie. It was never mentioned in any of the issues I have so I just assumed they were from different clans. However, Splinter himself was never part of ANY clan technically. Unless they were into adopting pets into their clan. In any case Splinter raised the turtles as HAMATOs and not Foot. So no, they really had NO association with tbe clan outside of some techniques. Which is kind of my point about not wearing Foot colors. Why would they if they are not even directly associated with it?

Except that Yoshi was Foot and his techniques are of the Foot... and what the Turtles use for a fighting style is the same as the Foot...

Really it just makes no sense for them to wear the bandanas at all... if you start there, you can end there. Lol.

It also makes no sense to wear red ones vs different colored ones too... Are turtles color blind?

[pferreira]

Originally Posted by neatoman

You're creating a strawman here, the problem isn't that aren't any arcs but that the self contained episodes don't work. Deus ex Machina, padding and contradictions, all common problems in the FW cartoon and you'd probably consider them problems in any other show. Even episodic writing needs to be well paced and make some narrative sense, sorry.

Well I wouldn't say the self contained episodes were bad so what's the problem? The show never had an issue really with pacing bar maybe a couple of episodes and ok some stories were crazy but within those crazy stories they made sense.

Originally Posted by neatoman

As for your comment on the IDW series being made for profit, there is a rather important difference. The comics themselves are where the profits for IDW lies, the comics are the product so there has to be something keeping the reader interested in buying the book, like a good story. For Fred Wolf it was different, the show was just a means to sell the toys which meant that as long they sold the company could receive funding for the cartoon, as a result it was deemed more profitable to cut corners and the show itself suffered from it.

Now that sounds like a strawman argument. From what I understand the cartoon was only funded by PlayMates for the first season. Season 2 onwards was funded by Fred Wolf or his investors. Please feel free to correct me if this is incorrect info. I'm not saying the IDW comic book is trying to sell toys, I'm saying it's not different to the Fred Wolf cartoon in keeping the brand alive by making money. You're trying to separate a cartoon you don't like from something you love and it isn't working. I can understand why writers like Brynne Chandler get annoyed with fans who think they weren't making an effort when they were.