Sony's Spider-Man 3 (Out of the MCU, Back In Again, and BEYOND)

[sdp]

The rules of antitrust laws have changed a lot because of tech giants FAANG, basically the reason why AT&T was able to buy Time Warner and is a much bigger company than it was when it got broken up both times before in history. Disney buying Sony Pictures could be a problem, buying the Playstaiton brand? Maybe not so much. Either way I don't see it happening anytime soon.

This could still be interesting based on Tom Holland's posts, so basically Sony could continue making pseudo MCU movies, not connected but same actor playing what seems to be the same character but now without any Disney control so Venom and the other Sony movies will technically be in continuity, at least more than the pre Disney + Marvel Netflix / TV shows.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by sdp

This could still be interesting based on Tom Holland's posts, so basically Sony could continue making pseudo MCU movies, not connected but same actor playing what seems to be the same character

That was never in question.

[CyberCubed]

I don't see why people are confused about this. Spiderman 3 (and 4) will be direct sequels to the first two movies, with Tom Holland and assumingly his classmates all reprising their roles. They're all in continuity with each other, you just won't see Spiderman talk about Tony Stark anymore or mention things from the MCU.

Which could actually be a good thing, because they accepted Tony is now gone and now its time for Spiderman to stand on his own as his own hero. If anything it happened at the perfect time.

Nick Fury won't appear in the next movie either but he doesn't have to, they'll resolve whatever storyline they were doing with the Scrawls in some future MCU movie

[AquaParade]

The only way for the MCU to "shake" the Sony Spider-man universe from appearing to take place in some sort of psued-MCU, would be to attempt a major earthwide upheaval that Sony could not copy. Like the five-year gap they just did.

That seems like it could be a challenge that is more trouble than it's worth, so it should be quite interesting to see how Sony move forward in this world, while avoiding referencing the MCU. I suppose it could be done in a way that works. I essentially just don't want to be thinking about it as I watch the film. That is the challenge. If they can do that, there are a lot of other interesting characters and stories to play with in the Spider-Man universe.

But it's really strange, the idea of them essentially pretending they are in the MCU.


Could definitely be a **** show as well. I'm still holding out hope that negotiations will resume.
If not though, I'm most anxious to hear about the Kraven script that was intended to include Spider-man. I believe the writer mentioned it late last year.

[Sumac]

I am more interested how they gonna control that the stories in Sony's pseudo-MCU won't contradict stuff in real MCU.

Or is this is impossible at this point?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

The only way for the MCU to "shake" the Sony Spider-man universe from appearing to take place in some sort of psued-MCU, would be to attempt a major earthwide upheaval that Sony could not copy. Like the five-year gap they just did.

That seems like it could be a challenge that is more trouble than it's worth, so it should be quite interesting to see how Sony move forward in this world, while avoiding referencing the MCU. I suppose it could be done in a way that works. I essentially just don't want to be thinking about it as I watch the film. That is the challenge. If they can do that, there are a lot of other interesting characters and stories to play with in the Spider-Man universe.

But it's really strange, the idea of them essentially pretending they are in the MCU.

Why do people think its so hard to make a new Spiderman movie without mentioning stuff in the MCU? Spiderman can stand on his own, he "got over" being the next Tony Stark in this movie.

I find it strange online in other places I keep seeing people say, "It'll be impossible to make a Spiderman movie not mentioning stuff in the MCU" and I'm like...why? Spiderman doesn't have to mention any other characters, just make a Spiderman movie with the next villain and continue from there. Just like Spiderman cartoons/comics don't mention anything about the Avengers when its just his stories.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Why do people think its so hard to make a new Spiderman movie without mentioning stuff in the MCU? Spiderman can stand on his own, he "got over" being the next Tony Stark in this movie.

I find it strange online in other places I keep seeing people say, "It'll be impossible to make a Spiderman movie not mentioning stuff in the MCU" and I'm like...why? Spiderman doesn't have to mention any other characters, just make a Spiderman movie with the next villain and continue from there. Just like Spiderman cartoons/comics don't mention anything about the Avengers when its just his stories.

Well like I said, it's the challenge of a new Sony Spidey film but it's not impossible by any means. It will be natural for people to wonder where the Avengers are if there is a world-endangering threat. And then of course you remember that they don't exist in this universe...anymore. Or something. And it's just a bit awkward.

I don't think anyone believes that there isn't enough material to pull from without the MCU, but it's about creating a world that feels cohesive and doesn't tempt you to question the reality of it. It is the inherent awkwardness of the situation - this is the MCU but it isn't. For me, at least.

Like I said, I think they can avoid any glaring inconsistencies if they are mindful.

I mean, it would have been fun as hell seeing a group of MCU Thunderbolts or small time heroes hunting down Spider-Man, after Far From Home's cliffhanger, but now if they follow up on that, we might be wondering where all the other heroes are at, if Spidey is being hunted down by the government or latest incarnation of Shield or whatever it might be. "Why doesn't Spider-Man go to Nick Fury for help??" Etc
Whether or not these are great examples, they illustrate the type of questions that the audience might run into, leading to general confusion or awkwardness.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I am more interested how they gonna control that the stories in Sony's pseudo-MCU won't contradict stuff in real MCU.

Or is this is impossible at this point?

I'm sure there will still be some kind of tepid relationship between Sony and Marvel/Disney. I'm sure both sides will be interested in "playing it safe" in making things "fit" on either side of the fence "just in case" something develops again.

Like, I dunno... when Spider-Man 3 dramatically underperforms and gets critically savaged.

Also, apparently Sony named their price for Spider-Man and Disney said no:

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...v1hohIVL_8cX8g

10 billion. I think that's a reasonable price. Disney should have paid, if this is true.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I'm sure there will still be some kind of tepid relationship between Sony and Marvel/Disney. I'm sure both sides will be interested in "playing it safe" in making things "fit" on either side of the fence "just in case" something develops again.

Like, I dunno... when Spider-Man 3 dramatically underperforms and gets critically savaged.

Also, apparently Sony named their price for Spider-Man and Disney said no:

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/...v1hohIVL_8cX8g

10 billion. I think that's a reasonable price. Disney should have paid, if this is true.

If the X-Men and Fantastic Four hadn't just reverted to the MCU, I think these negotiations would have played out very differently.

Spiderman isn't as important going forward now that all these other new players are on the board.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

If the X-Men and Fantastic Four hadn't just reverted to the MCU, I think these negotiations would have played out very differently.

Spiderman isn't as important going forward now that all these other new players are on the board.

You'd think so, but if I'm not mistaken, Spider-Man merchandise is still Marvel's largest source of revenue. Keeping that character intact should be a high priority.

[Andrew NDB]

I was looking forward to Avengers Tower becoming the Oscorp Building. I hope that can still happen, somehow.

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I was looking forward to Avengers Tower becoming the Oscorp Building. I hope that can still happen, somehow.

With all the rumors of a possible "Dark Avengers" film, I was getting really excited at the idea of Norman Osborn taking the Iron man armor, pretending to be a hero, and making a mockery of the whole thing. Probably too many expectations to have, but yeah, I want Osborn in the MCU.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

You'd think so, but if I'm not mistaken, Spider-Man merchandise is still Marvel's largest source of revenue. Keeping that character intact should be a high priority.

That's definitely true. But I think Marvel is banking on Sony getting into Spidey trouble again a few years down the road, and then reacquiring the rights.

Why pony up $10 mil when you can wait 8 years and hopefully get them for much cheaper, after Sony screws the pooch with a failed film or two?

It's a risk, of course; Sony could exceed all expectations.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

That's definitely true. But I think Marvel is banking on Sony getting into Spidey trouble again a few years down the road, and then reacquiring the rights.

Why pony up $10 mil when you can wait 8 years and hopefully get them for much cheaper, after Sony screws the pooch with a failed film or two?

It's a risk, of course; Sony could exceed all expectations.

my thought as well. Sony does NOT have the best franchise track record property.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

It's a risk, of course; Sony could exceed all expectations.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

my thought as well. Sony does NOT have the best franchise track record property.

Like AquaParade has been saying, Sony holding the rights again is the biggest risk/reward path. I personally expect the worst... for things to go okay for a film or two, and then crash and burn horribly.

But who knows?

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Like AquaParade has been saying, Sony holding the rights again is the biggest risk/reward path. I personally expect the worst... for things to go okay for a film or two, and then crash and burn horribly.

But who knows?

Totally. It's popular to drag Sony Pictures over the rakes for their mistakes, but there's plenty of reason to believe they could knock it out of the park.

The picture you see when you look at the landscape of these comicbook films, mainly produced by Sony, Fox, and Marvel, over the last ten years is of high ups and downs.

From "Wolverine Origins" to "Logan", From "Spider-Man 2" to "Spider-Man 3", from "Avengers" to "Thor: the Dark World" to "Captain America: Winter Soldier". From "Infinity War" to "Ant-Man and the Wasp".

MCU has the most output and is most consistent, but you can see winners and losers all the way down the line, for each studio. Recently Sony had a major fumble on "ASM 2" and then a huge win with fans and critics in "Into the Spider-Verse". Who knows what could happen next?? Studios learn from mistakes, get cocky, have major shifts in leadership, etc.

Anyways, I'm being a broken record, but Sony is definitely a case of higher risk/reward compared to MCU.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by AquaParade

Anyways, I'm being a broken record, but Sony is definitely a case of higher risk/reward compared to MCU.

No. And again, SPIDER-VERSE DOES. NOT. COUNT. it has Nothing to do with Holland. It only proves that Sony should leave the live action Spider-Man to Marvel and just do animated films instead.

I don't want Sony ****ing up the cliffhanger that FFH ended with .

[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

No. And again, SPIDER-VERSE DOES. NOT. COUNT. it has Nothing to do with Holland. It only proves that Sony should leave the live action Spider-Man to Marvel and just do animated films instead.

I don't want Sony ****ing up the cliffhanger that FFH ended with .

By that logic, ASM 1 + 2 don't count either, because "they have nothing to do with Holland".

It does count, even if you'd like to overestimate the difference in roles between the producer of an animated Spider-Man film and the producer of a live-action Spider-Man film. "Into the Spider-Verse" is a win for Sony. It's a feather in their hat. It counts as a successful film they have produced. There is no way of getting around it.

I'll reiterate that it doesn't mean the next film will be as good, but I use it to combat the argument that the only real possibility is that Sony ****s up the next film. It's an overly cynical take, and not realistic. Things could go either way. Obviously.

[CyberCubed]

People feel cartoons don’t count because it’s just animation and voice acting.