Did you like Raph's leadership?

Leofan26 · 08-12-2020, 08:57 PM

Well, Leo got promoted to leadership at the very last second. What did you think of his leadership skills? He reminds me of all those anime leaders that jump into action without thinking.

*neatoman* · 08-12-2020, 09:15 PM

Doesn't matter, Blue is the leader now.

Anyway, giving the serious answer here, it seemed generally inconsistant but the idea mostly seemed to be "well intentioned but clearly unsuited". He tried to be responsible but kept making dumb choices, came up with unworkable plans and failed to react to unexpected turns in a productive manner. The fact that Leo was eventually going to end up as the leader was obvious (though not just because he typically is and it just being a last minute gag wasn't). Leo was the one coming up with the actual tactics, showed himself capable of manipulating others, often came out on top without any major scrapes and could indeed improvise in unexpected situations.

Raph only became the "leader" because he figured "I'm allegedly the oldest and clearly the biggest, therefore I should take this responsibility, right?" and Leo pretty much allowed him to think he actually handled it. The reason for the last minute gag was probably that Splinter saw through the charade.

*IndigoErth* · 08-12-2020, 10:13 PM

What I thought of it.... not much. For most eps it wasn't even a thing, and on the occasions it was even touched on he generally bumbled his way through it. Even in this ending they showed him as never really having grown in leadership skill as he was still clueless. That was a good time to have Leo just have a great plan and step up and show he has what it takes and it seemed like they might when Raph was lost and freezing up and then.... nothing, didn't happen, as if a writer got distracted and forgot.

*Powder* · 08-12-2020, 11:07 PM

I loved it. Wouldn't want it to become the new norm, but it was a fun experiment. I love the big lug teddy bear thing he had going on, it was a good angle for him being the heart of the team & a brute at the same time. He may not have been a "good" leader necessarily, but, ya know, the whole tone of the show was for goofs anyway.

*victory_angel* · 08-13-2020, 12:54 AM

I liked the idea of Raph being "A" leader or taking on the leader role. I do have reservations about it since it was largely played up as a joke to show how incompetent he was at the role.

It would have been more rewarding to have Raph personally recognize that Leo made a more capable leader and said "Your leader now bro". Rather then having Splinter say "Oh, by the way, blue is leader."

Perhaps in a future incarnation, if they have Raph as leader, they won't play up the incompetence for laughs. They might have him be passible in the leader role, but he just can't shoulder the responsibility the way Leo can.

The Great Saiyaman · 08-13-2020, 05:26 AM

Well, if you're planning to raid a museum because there's a piece of Shredder's armor in there but when actually at the site, you all but forget the mission because you're too busy taking pictures with your phone of pigeons...

Or when Donatello presents you and the others of the team with new Turtle tank and a detailed manual on how it works. But rather than treat the gesture as a serious new piece of weaponry which will be of good use, you straight ahead feed the manual into a paper shredder because it's so much fun seeing it chew the pages to shreds.

Raphael didn't have in him to demand discipline from the team most of all because he didn't have any discipline himself.

*victory_angel* · 08-13-2020, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Great Saiyaman

Well, if you're planning to raid a museum because there's a piece of Shredder's armor in there but when actually at the site, you all but forget the mission because you're too busy taking pictures with your phone of pigeons...

Or when Donatello presents you and the others of the team with new Turtle tank and a detailed manual on how it works. But rather than treat the gesture as a serious new piece of weaponry which will be of good use, you straight ahead feed the manual into a paper shredder because it's so much fun seeing it chew the pages to shreds.

Raphael didn't have in him to demand discipline from the team most of all because he didn't have any discipline himself.

As I said the incompetents was mostly played up as a joke. So this particular Raph was a bad leader. Being the oldest my make you elegiable for being leader, but if you don't have the dedication or the maturity to back it up... well as they say even the dullest sword is dangerous in the hands of a novice.

In the 2012 incarnation Raph was good at leading when he finally realized the burdain that Leo had to deal with as leader. Originally he saw Leader as just getting your way all the time, and its only when he grasped that it's also making decisions based on how to complete the mission and taking the safety of ones team mates into account that he really understood what leadership meant. As such he did take up the reigns of leader during the some of the occasions where Leo was unable, or when Donnie couldn't effectively channel his inner-Leo enough to effectively lead the team.

A future version of Raph may be a goodleader, but could possibly see Leo may be better as a leader.

dragonside · 08-26-2020, 10:37 AM

I think Raph saw leadership as an obligation of being the eldest of the brothers. I like Raph as the older brother, because his heart was in the right place. I.e. telling them training is an hour earlier because they are always late or lying them to them about something to get them to do things.

He might not be the best leader per se... but we can't say he isn't the best big brother.

I think Rise Donnie, Mikey, and Leo were all trying to get Raph to understand that they had good ideas as well. This dynamic works because they were all trying. Rather than in most incarnations where their roles are typically defined.

If anything the Rise turtles are more like youth/young kids growing together as a team. Versus angsty teenagers struggling to be a team.

08-12-2020, 08:57 PM	#1
Leofan26 Mad Scientist Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,282	Did you like Raph's leadership? Well, Leo got promoted to leadership at the very last second. What did you think of his leadership skills? He reminds me of all those anime leaders that jump into action without thinking.

08-12-2020, 11:07 PM	#4
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,803	I loved it. Wouldn't want it to become the new norm, but it was a fun experiment. I love the big lug teddy bear thing he had going on, it was a good angle for him being the heart of the team & a brute at the same time. He may not have been a "good" leader necessarily, but, ya know, the whole tone of the show was for goofs anyway. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

08-13-2020, 12:54 AM	#5
victory_angel Foot Elite Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Ca Posts: 3,103	I liked the idea of Raph being "A" leader or taking on the leader role. I do have reservations about it since it was largely played up as a joke to show how incompetent he was at the role. It would have been more rewarding to have Raph personally recognize that Leo made a more capable leader and said "Your leader now bro". Rather then having Splinter say "Oh, by the way, blue is leader." Perhaps in a future incarnation, if they have Raph as leader, they won't play up the incompetence for laughs. They might have him be passible in the leader role, but he just can't shoulder the responsibility the way Leo can. __________________

08-13-2020, 05:26 AM	#6
The Great Saiyaman Stone Warrior Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 904	Well, if you're planning to raid a museum because there's a piece of Shredder's armor in there but when actually at the site, you all but forget the mission because you're too busy taking pictures with your phone of pigeons... Or when Donatello presents you and the others of the team with new Turtle tank and a detailed manual on how it works. But rather than treat the gesture as a serious new piece of weaponry which will be of good use, you straight ahead feed the manual into a paper shredder because it's so much fun seeing it chew the pages to shreds. Raphael didn't have in him to demand discipline from the team most of all because he didn't have any discipline himself. __________________ "I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage, "Mythbusters"

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08-12-2020, 10:13 PM	#3
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,218	What I thought of it.... not much. For most eps it wasn't even a thing, and on the occasions it was even touched on he generally bumbled his way through it. Even in this ending they showed him as never really having grown in leadership skill as he was still clueless. That was a good time to have Leo just have a great plan and step up and show he has what it takes and it seemed like they might when Raph was lost and freezing up and then.... nothing, didn't happen, as if a writer got distracted and forgot.

08-26-2020, 10:37 AM	#8
dragonside Hench Mutant Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 476	I think Raph saw leadership as an obligation of being the eldest of the brothers. I like Raph as the older brother, because his heart was in the right place. I.e. telling them training is an hour earlier because they are always late or lying them to them about something to get them to do things. He might not be the best leader per se... but we can't say he isn't the best big brother. I think Rise Donnie, Mikey, and Leo were all trying to get Raph to understand that they had good ideas as well. This dynamic works because they were all trying. Rather than in most incarnations where their roles are typically defined. If anything the Rise turtles are more like youth/young kids growing together as a team. Versus angsty teenagers struggling to be a team.