The Technodrome Forums

Go Back   The Technodrome Forums > TMNT Universes > 4Kids TMNT Cartoon Discussion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-14-2020, 09:18 AM   #1
Groverman62
Foot Soldier
 
Groverman62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Thats Classified
Posts: 114
Is the 4kids the least contentious turtle cartoon?

The 80s show gets heat because people feel that the franchise relies too much much on the nostalgia folks have for it.

The 2012 show gets flak because it didnt really develop its characters or plotlines well. And not doing enough original stuff

The Rise show gets people mad because its silly nature doesn't cut it with people who like the Turtles to be a little more serious as well as making too many changes.

What about the 4kids show. Do people have any serious issues with it?
Groverman62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 10:39 AM   #2
The Turtle Terminator
Mad Scientist
 
The Turtle Terminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groverman62 View Post
What about the 4kids show. Do people have any serious issues with it?
Not particularly, apart from the complete change of pace of the last 3-4 seasons
The Turtle Terminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 11:05 AM   #3
Wesley
Mad Scientist
 
Wesley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Republic of Ireland
Posts: 1,589
I?d say yes. Probably helps that it?s the least well-known of all the cartoons.

I rewatched it all recently and I loved it even more than I did when it was originally airing.
__________________
Donatello: The tracker! It might work.
*Donatello goes to the back of the Turtle Van*
Raphael: Shrewd move, Donatello. If we ignore the problem, it might go away by itself. (from The Mean Machines)
Wesley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 11:10 AM   #4
80gmrp
Foot Soldier
 
80gmrp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley View Post
Probably helps that it’s the least well-known of all the cartoons.
While I feel like The Next Mutation is less known, this may very well be true otherwise, sadly, as much as I hate to say it about my own favorite series. Granted, I have heard the argument that it’s because of uncertain licensing status with that series now because of 4Kids having more ties to Fox (which is now owned by Disney) than to Viacom, though I’m not sure if it’s completely true in light of Pluto.TV.
__________________
80gmrp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 12:45 PM   #5
neatoman
Emperor
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 9,427
Least contentious might be a contentious statement itself.

While it is true that on it's own, there isn't much to get annoyed with. It's a children's cartoon with a reasonable storyline, decently written characters, some neat fight scenes and some (expected) toy marketing. It is fairly inoffensive. Where some issues may creep in is in the decision to adapt a signifigant portion of the Mirage comics while still being mostly for kids. While I don't really have a problem with it, I commend the series for actually trying instead of just ******** the bed trying to be it's own thing and missing the point in the process, I do see two camps who have a problem with it:

The first is Mirage fans who are a little annoyed at the changes that were necessary to make it work for children. While it is true that those comics were never really meant for children, I wouldn't agree the stories just stopped working because they were changed to be more suitable to children. But yes, there is certainly something of an edgeloss.

The second camp would be the sort of people who want the Fred Wolf cartoon to be the primary source of inspiration going forward. This show was pretty much the biggest middle finger to that idea in the franchise's history, the six year run is also evidence that emulating the Fred Wolf cartoon might not actually be the best approach going forward. Knowing that the franchise can move beyond the characters, tone and concepts of the Fred Wolf cartoon doesn't exactly look good for the advocates of sticking to them.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTH View Post
Turtles is basically the red-headed stepchild of Nick.
Hahahaha!

Last edited by neatoman; 08-14-2020 at 05:18 PM.
neatoman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:20 PM   #6
The-Shredder
Hench Mutant
 
The-Shredder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by neatoman View Post
The second camp would be the sort of people who want the Fred Wolf cartoon to be the primary source of inspiration going forward. This show was pretty much the biggest middle finger to that idea in the franchise's history, the six year run is also evidence that emulating the Fred Wolf cartoon might not actually be the best approach going forward. Knowing that the franchise can move beyond the characters, tone and concepts of the Fred Wolf cartoon doesn't exactly look good for the advocates of sticking to them.
Well, to be fair, some concepts from the Fred Wolf cartoon did carry over into the 4Kids cartoon, and even more so in Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer. The multi-colored masks, the wide assortment of vehicles and gadgets, character traits, April wearing yellow sometimes, etc. It's more subtle rather than obvious, but it would be pretty difficult to completely escape the influence of the Fred Wolf cartoon when it's probably what the production staff at the time grew up with.

I guess it's kind of like how concepts from the 1966 Batman series influenced later adaptations of Batman, even in The Animated Series. Although Batman is now known more for being dark and serious like in the original comics instead of light and campy, elements from the 1966 show remain and there have been spinoffs that went in that direction as well. Maybe TMNT needs something like a Tim Burton treatment to firmly bring it back to it's roots.
The-Shredder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:35 PM   #7
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
The colored bandannas has become the standard, so that's fine. But a lot of the other stuff the 4Kids show did in "homage" or reference to the FW cartoon felt like it was through gritted teeth.

Like at first they only teased Mikey saying "Cowabunga", Raph would always cut him off or otherwise it would be played up as something stupid. Before too long, it was just his regular catchphrase again, most likely by executive decree. But I preferred how it originally was. Really drove home the point that this was a COMPLETELY different show, which was much of the point of Season 1.
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:37 PM   #8
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
Annalist
 
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by The-Shredder View Post
Well, to be fair, some concepts from the Fred Wolf cartoon did carry over into the 4Kids cartoon, and even more so in Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer. The multi-colored masks, the wide assortment of vehicles and gadgets, character traits, April wearing yellow sometimes, etc. It's more subtle rather than obvious, but it would be pretty difficult to completely escape the influence of the Fred Wolf cartoon when it's probably what the production staff at the time grew up with.
As far as vehicles and gadgets, I wouldn't blame that on Fred Wolf; I'd blame it on Playmates.

Which is kinda splitting hairs, but I think it's a valid point. ANY cartoon exists to sell toys. Fred Wolf did a lot of things wrong (and from a business point of view, and a "creating a generation of TMNT fans" point of view, it did a lot of things right). But I wouldn't blame the merch on FW.
__________________
ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:39 PM   #9
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
I felt the vehicles etc. were at least way more toned down in 4Kids Season 1, also. Again, I've only seen up through S3, and have watched S1 the most times. So I don't know/don't remember how overboard they went later. But S1 was very restrained with that gimmick. There was the Battle Shell and... well, to be honest I really don't remember them doing anything else blatantly just to shill a toy vehicle or playset during that Season. Action figures, sure, but they get the show made in the first place.

And I mean, you gotta have a vehicle. I'unno, like you said that's a total Playmates thing.
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:44 PM   #10
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
Annalist
 
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
I felt the vehicles etc. were at least way more toned down in 4Kids Season 1, also. Again, I've only seen up through S3, and have watched S1 the most times. So I don't know/don't remember how overboard they went later. But S1 was very restrained with that gimmick. There was the Battle Shell and... well, to be honest I really don't remember them doing anything else blatantly just to shill a toy vehicle or playset during that Season. Action figures, sure, but they get the show made in the first place.

And I mean, you gotta have a vehicle. I'unno, like you said that's a total Playmates thing.
They always had one van / armored truck. And "Darkness on the Edge of Town" was blatantly toy shilling, with the rollerblades/skateboard/scooter/blah blah blah. And in Season 4, there was the Monster Hunting gear...

So it's definitely been a part of 4Kids.
__________________
ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:44 PM   #11
Whatswiththeheadbands?
The Weed of Crime
 
Whatswiththeheadbands?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: The Shadow's Sanctum
Posts: 3,006
Season 4 had a modified helicopter (which I think was the one from the end of Return to New York) and another battle shell disguised as a moving truck

Season 6 had the hover shell and hover bikes (it WAS the future after all)

Season 7 had ANOTHER battle shell, only this one could fly.
__________________
Who knows what Evil lurks in the hearts of Men?
The Shadow knows...
Whatswiththeheadbands? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 02:55 PM   #12
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
Again, I wasn't watching anymore after Season 3. Personal reasons, nothing to do with the show. We didn't have TV. Long boring story.

Refresh my memory, though; I only got the main toys in the series; did they DO anything with the scooter, rollerblades, etc. as far as toys go? I don't own them if they did, but I'm drawing a blank as to whether or not they went there in toy form.

Even if they did, that's not as offensive to me as some of the other "variants" and stuff they did. Those would more or less just be "accessories".

Re-watching it recently, I didn't immediately think "toys" when they showed that bit. I just though, "Man, what a tragic and desperate attempt to be 'hip', and also, why the F*CK does poor Leo get stuck with a damn SCOOTER?" What, they felt like a unicycle would be too emasculating? Only by inches, folks.
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 04:15 PM   #13
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
Annalist
 
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 16,435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands? View Post
Season 4 had a modified helicopter (which I think was the one from the end of Return to New York) and another battle shell disguised as a moving truck

Season 6 had the hover shell and hover bikes (it WAS the future after all)

Season 7 had ANOTHER battle shell, only this one could fly.
Remember, though, in Season 4, Karai attacks everyone while Leo is off pouting and the OG Battle Shell was blown up. And the helicopter... they stole that off Bishop, somehow. Oh, and Don stole Bishop's train at some point, too.

Never did actually see toys for the train or helicopter, that I remember...

Season 6 was nothing BUT toys. Oof.

Season 7, I didn't even pay attention. Flying Battle Shell? Why not. Ugh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo656 View Post
Refresh my memory, though; I only got the main toys in the series; did they DO anything with the scooter, rollerblades, etc. as far as toys go? I don't own them if they did, but I'm drawing a blank as to whether or not they went there in toy form.

Re-watching it recently, I didn't immediately think "toys" when they showed that bit. I just though, "Man, what a tragic and desperate attempt to be 'hip', and also, why the F*CK does poor Leo get stuck with a damn SCOOTER?" What, they felt like a unicycle would be too emasculating? Only by inches, folks.
I don't THINK they did toys. And it could also feel "hip" instead of "sell dem toys." Either way, it was pretty cringy. Scooters are for children that are knee high. Nothing cool about scooters.
__________________
ALL THEIR DAYS ARE NUMBERED
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 05:01 PM   #14
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
I don't THINK they did toys. And it could also feel "hip" instead of "sell dem toys." Either way, it was pretty cringy. Scooters are for children that are knee high. Nothing cool about scooters.
It felt VERY much like some out-of-touch person's idea of "What's 'cool' with kids and tweens right now? Razor scooters? Alright, DO that!"

Nevermind that the only people I knew who rode those things in 2003 were office workers who were too lazy to walk down long hallways. That was HUGE at that time. I was doing moving at that time and I moved a ton of offices, and there was always some joker who'd be zipping down the hallways wearing a full suit on a goddamn razor scooter. Goofiest f*cking thing I ever saw.

But yeah, so if they didn't do toys then that bit wasn't about toys, simple as that. It was about "Out of touch people trying to seem hip and cool in their creative choices, but instead fall flat because these people aren't Hip or Cool, they're people who literally spend all their time in meetings," which is a persistent but unrelated problem all its own.
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 05:33 PM   #15
sdp
-
 
sdp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tokio, Italy
Posts: 9,999
This forum existed when 2k3 started airing, all you have to do is go back to the threads and the complains were that it wasn't like the FW show, where is Krang, where is Rockstead/Beebop, why isn't April a reporter, why is Baxter black, why isn't he a fly, why is krang Shredder, why don't they say cowabonga, why don't they eat pizza, where is *name of mutant*?.

After a while those fans realized they were 30 year old losers and left to hide until geek culture got popular in the late 00's and we got to discuss the show but by then it's when Fast Forward started and people complained for the last few seasons for not being as good as the first few.

Imagine if geek culture was popular around the time of 2k3 and social media was around with a bunch of casuals, 2k3 would've been cancelled faster than Rise because it wasn't like FW. Thank god. It's a show that is not well known because the people who grew up with it are just starting to become adults, give it 5 more years and more nostalgia for the show will arise, I mean it aired on saturday mornings for many years and on CN and the toyline was very successful the first few years.
sdp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2020, 06:04 PM   #16
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
I think they were more "20-something year old losers" (I was barely 20, personally). And I was more active on the mailing list than here, originally. Actually it went "Mailing list -> Undermanhattan.com -> Here", in that order.

I do always spin the tale about not being able to get any of my friends who liked the old show into the 2003 series, though, and it was indeed very frustrating. In one group, there were the "young 20-somethings" who spent their Friday nights on whiskey and cocaine and thus weren't going to wake up early on a Saturday for a cartoon show, no matter if they were Mikey for Halloween back in 1990 or not. But even among those who showed mild interest, "No Krang/Bebop/Rocksteady/etc." turned them completely off. No exceptions. I had a ton of friends back in the 80s/90s who loved TMNT and couldn't get enough of it. Yet I could not PAY them to give the 4Kids series a chance.

Some of them dipped back in with the BayTurtles movies, which they mostly liked because "It's stupid like TMNT should be!" and had all their favorite dopey characters involved. So I'm pretty sure they simply had terrible priorities in the first place and never actually cared about Ninja Turtles.

For my part, I learned how to program a VCR for the first time in my entire life for the 4Kids show. Just in time for the entire format to die completely.
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2020, 01:20 PM   #17
Coola Yagami
Overlord
 
Coola Yagami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,993
Well.... actually *adjusts glasses*

The reason they had the roller blades and scooter and whatnot was to tie to the sports-themed turtles they had out at the time, I believe it was their very first variant. The only thing is in the cartoon they didn't go all the way and make them wear all that gear and just gave them the vehicles, so it felt more odd and out of place for them to suddenly just.... rock out on roller blades and scooters once and never again.

Later seasons would try to find any excuse to dress the turtles up in any variant clothing they had out.

It's one thing I gave the 80's cartoon credit for, yeah they had the goofy toy vehicles, but they never dressed up like any of the variants. Any toy variants were based off the cartoon after the fact.
__________________
"I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU."

Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/
I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/
Coola Yagami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2020, 02:25 PM   #18
MikeandRaph87
Jedi Master
 
MikeandRaph87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: JLA Satellite Headquarters
Posts: 11,123
No version is perfect. This is my second favorite show and iteration. However it like any TMNT version has its faults. What I perceive as faults my be universally agreed or maybe not. I argue that Peter Laird not allowing any of the of other three turtles to have a humorous side and throw it all on Michelangelo hurt his character going forward. He is the youngest, as dumb as Donatello is smart, made into an easy punchline based on lack of intelligence and hyperactivity that annoys anyone and everyone. The 2012 cartoon took this too and seems rooted in the 2003 cartoon. Some might argue the lovable laid-back surfer of the 1987 cartoon, but honestly it cannot be to blame for how irritating my favorite character became in the 2003 cartoon.

Also, the lack of incorporating characters that were not directly taken from the Mirage comics. TMNT is a success because it build so much beyond the original comics. I don't mean ignoring Shredder's allies, namely Krang, Bebop, and ROcksteady, but the welath of characters overall. Sure it brought in some original characters that seemed to be characters that will continue on most notably Agent John Bishop and Hun. It's just ignoring a wealth of characters for the sake of where they originated hurt potential in the series. Some agree while others do not. Now, Nick did tap into the full well, but so many times it was slapping an old name on a new character, something that is even worse than outright attempting ot incoporating older characters.

Also, it has the controversy of making both The Shredder and Rat King non-humans. I understand a way to get around comic adaptations of The Shredder's three stories in Mirage they went with the Chr'ell concept, but I never liked the idea of merging Shredder and Krang into one character. I know some of this was backtracked to make Oroku Saki the Shredder and possed by a demon that would later inspire Ch'rell, but still Oroku Saki the human is The Shredder. Rat King may be mysterious in nature, but making him Agent Bishop's imperfect clone was a bad idea. It may work for the story of a single interation, but I don't want either's humanity taken away longterm. The Turtles need human adversaries that are not a random street gang or a mob boss.

The first five of the seven seasons were great in tone and continuity. It was solid in plot and direction and something that overall is unfortunately underappreciated to this day.
__________________
Michelangelo: This looks like a job for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles!
Raphael: Sheesh, Mikey this ain't a cartoon!
MikeandRaph87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2020, 03:12 PM   #19
Leo656
The Franchise
 
Leo656's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,696
Frankly, given how different they aimed to make the show and how much of it was a direct rebuke of FW, I was glad they didn't try and squeeze in any of those characters. I didn't need or want to see REX-1, Metalhead, the Punk Frogs and what have you. Definitely no Bebop and Rocksteady. For one thing, all it really would have done is invite even more Compare/Contrast with the old cartoon, and that's already a huge problem, that being people often refusing to judge 4Kids on its OWN merits because they're too busy comparing it to something it's not trying to be. It's a big problem I had with the Nick show, when I bothered to watch it; a lot of the time it felt like they were trying to "piggyback" on refurbished FW ideas because they couldn't come up with any new ideas of their own. And in my opinion, most of the "new ideas" the Nick show did have were terrible, so yeah, for lack of having a strong identity of their own they tried to get a shine off of something "better" that more people remembered. Understandable, but I wasn't a fan of the approach. For better or worse, TMNT 2003 was its OWN show, and the further it got away from FW, the more I appreciated it. I know some people dislike that exact same thing, but tough. Let 'em rewatch FW if they NEED Neutrinos and Mr. Ogg so bad. I'm fine without 'em.

I definitely didn't like how Mikey gradually got dumber as 4Kids went on, though. Even by Season 3 (which is still all I've gotten through) it was getting pretty bad, I'm actually afraid to watch "Fast Forward". It's definitely very lazy. I really kinda feel like the Turtles' personalities are all rather spot-on in Season 1 but you could tell they just gave up on trying to give Mikey any depth at all and settled on making him the butt of every joke. Very disappointing.

The Shredder stuff is all things that I think are fine in THIS version, but I wouldn't want to see them put into any other ones.

I don't see any TMNT show in the future ever replacing it as my favorite of the bunch, but no, it's not perfect. I just think it gets a lot closer to it than anything before or since. FW was fun, but inarguably dumb (and sometimes plain brick-stupid). Nick was shiny, but poorly-written. This was right in the "sweet spot".
__________________

"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder...
I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..."

"But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."
nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA
https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/
Leo656 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2020, 03:51 PM   #20
D-ray
Foot Soldier
 
D-ray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Italy
Posts: 219
I never really found any BIG complains on that adaptation.
Some characters didn't receive a proper backstory, and some events are abit "pushed".

And yes, maybe even the weird change from the 4th season to the 5th.
But apart from that, I can't say anything to this serie.
It has aged EXTREMELY well, since I can watch it with no problem and with the same fun as before (I'm 19 now) thanks to the "growing up" type of plot.
__________________
"Fighting for our comrades, for the Republic, for...

VICTORY!"
D-ray is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.