Did Kavanaugh do it?

[Leo656]

Ahem.

I've repeatedly said, I'm sensitive to why some people feel they "can't" speak up when these things are fresh.

That doesn't change the FACT that it's still the right thing to do, and IF events had happened as Ford claims, and IF she had tried to do something about it then, there'd at least be a trail of evidence to follow.

Doing what's right is ALWAYS harder than closing your eyes and suffering in silence. It's STILL the right thing to do. No amount of "I feel so bad for you" is ever going to change that. Silence enables the abuser to hurt other people, which frankly is pretty evil in and of itself. "Well, I *WISH* I could have done something, and I know they've hurt many more people since then... but I just couldn't say anything, because Reasons." I'm sure that's great consolation to the other people who get abused by the exact same person; knowing they could have been stopped way earlier by someone else but it was "just too hard".

I do have empathy, but there's a place where empathy stops and common sense takes over. So please, don't try and pull that victim-blaming stuff with me. That's not who I am. I'm just a pragmatist.

Meanwhile, Juanita Broaddrick has been telling her story for DECADES, complete with people who completely swear to the details, but she's been victim-shamed and called all kinds of names because... well, because people like Slick Willy, despite the overwhelming pile of evidence that he's a monster for many reasons. "But he's so CHARMING!"

It never fails to amuse me how partisan politics play such a big role in shaping peoples' supposed "morality". People don't actually care about justice being done, you just want your side to get ahead and for the other side to all be "Bad Guys." It'd be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

[Prowler]

As someone who hasn't followed this controversy, I cannot say if he is guilty or not. I'm no judge and I don't know the guy, so there's no way I know or not if he did it or not. At most I could believe he did it or not, but what I think is irrelevant since I'm no judge. So no, I'm not taking any side on this case. I have no dog in this fight either, since I had no clue who Kavanaugh even was until I saw this thread.

As mentioned before, a lot of powerful and rich men get this type of accusations at some point in their lives. Many times it's just a woman lying in order to get a big sum of money out of the man, and other times it's actually legitimate but the guy gets away with it for being a celebrity. I mean, let's face it, we as a society deify celebrities a bit too much and often forget they're as human as we are and that, just because they're famous doesn't mean they're necessarily good people.

All of this stuff just makes me lose even more faith in humanity. The fact that a lot of people in power abuse said power in a certain away and the fact that some people would be willing to make such a serious false accusation against someone.

[Leo656]

Like, "Why would she make something like that up?" I don't know... even though they finally nailed Cosby, it's long since been proven that out of alllllll those accusers, at least a couple of them were lying even if most were telling the truth. Maybe it was money, maybe it was just seeing their name in the news, maybe they're just nuts, I don't know. Either way, they lied and said he raped them when he didn't. Luckily for them, he'd actually raped a ton of other women. But those small few were lying, for reasons unknown, and that's nuts. It's why we have the system in place that we do.

You hear the claim, you investigate, you do what you can, and in a case like this, you really have no choice but to shrug and say, "Well, we hear you... but there's nothing we can do , it's all just words at this point." What's left, with no evidence?
----------------------------------

I forgot to mention, a few friends of mine were assaulted by Larry Nassar, if anyone followed that case at all. So I'm 100% understanding of all the Hows and Whys and such about why women stay silent, and all of that. But there's a growing echo of, "I should have spoken up sooner" in that group, and it's exactly because of things like this case. Nassar's only going to die in jail because enough women DID say something - after many others didn't - to lead to an overwhelming mountain of evidence that finally nailed him. And a lot of the ones who didn't report, or gave up after they weren't believed initially, now mostly wish they had been more persistent when they had the chance.

It worked out in the end, but still... imagine if people REALLY went after him when the very first incidents happened? If instead of the parents taking a payoff and moving their kids to a different gym, they'd settled for nothing less than full prosecution?

My friends were assaulted by him in the late-90s, several years after Nassar's "indiscretions" became an open secret in the gymnastics community. Knowing what they went through, and how it changed them, it's hard for me not to think about things like, "Well, if someone had done something sooner, they might have been spared." Mathematically, it's a fact.

Now, too many of the girls DID try and come forward, and were disbelieved, and that's a huge problem. Many balls were fumbled over many years by many people. But the people working in the gymnastics community knew, because the accusations had followed Nassar from one gym to another for years already; if there had been solidarity among the kids and parents, the organization would have been forced to take action... rather than wait until it became a PR nightmare. Too many people for far too long just shrugged and let it go.

I mean, if you have like 500 girls who actually came forward, or whatever the number was, you have to assume that there were at least a thousand victims, if you round up for all the ones who either never spoke up or killed themselves. A thousand kids, over 20-odd years, because too many people kept quiet.

Those girls coming forward now had the benefit of, enough people DID report it back in the day to establish a paper trail. That's the crucial difference between that and the Ford case. With Nassar, you look back and go, "WOW, this is... this is a LOT of reports and evidence going back decades!" and it's an easy slam dunk. With Ford's accusation, there's just words, and nothing else.

Believe me, I get it. I DO. But people can't sweep stuff under the rug like this, or it becomes a cancer.

I'll tell you this for nothing: If Kavanaugh DID do it, right now Ford is wishing she could go back in time and file a police report, even if nothing came of it. It would make all the difference.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

you boys can discuss 'til you're blue whether or not this former drunken fratboy assaulted Ford, but he sure didn't handle the situation well and clearly isn't fit with his temperamental on the supreme court. But we all know why the republicans want him in despite by now he shouldn't even be touched with a 10' long pole dunked in holy water and Tabasco sauce by anyone that have a political career.

So, like Hilarity?

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

There’s a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didn’t come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*

The only thing this thread shows is a hypocrisy of lefties and that they are sore losers.

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

There’s a reason why Ramirez, Ford and Swetnick didn’t come out about Brett until now and this very for thread shows it oh so very nicely. *shrug*

Because it never happened? In order to be charged for sexual assault, there needs to be evidence. There wasnt any.

[BartAllen]

I just want to clarify something. I don't condone or tacitly promote rape at all. If it is proven that Kavanaugh committed these acts (even after he is given the position of a supreme court justice) then he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

My problem is the timing and the way Ford has been used as a pawn for political gains. This information was known almost 2 MONTHS before the information was brought to the general public. The second it was known they should have gone public with it. They did things the way they did because ultimately the left doesn't really care about victims of rape (Booker) they just care about maintaining their power. This was a tactic they used to hold up and/or stop the confirmation hearing. They desperately wanted this to happen after this November because they think they're going to be able to impeach Trump.

Add all that to some of the stuff that has happened more recently (Ford's ex boyfriend) and I find her less than trustworthy.

Ultimately this farce has all been about power. The Democrats have ruined a man's reputation solely because they're afraid of losing theirs.

[Sumac]

When it comes to politics - it's all about power.

If you seriously believe that those fatcats from democratic party SERIOUSLY give a **** about progress or equality you are deluding yourself. They just use whatever fad in the people's collective consciousness at the moment, to make a power grab.

And it doesn't matter if said moves go completely opposite of democratic or progressive principles and values. They always will find a way to frame their actions as progressive, like saying: "our enemies forced us to do that" even though it's a traditional excuse of an abuser and a person who does nefarious **** and wants to have 0 consequences for it.

The whole lefty ideology has become solely about control. Which is sad since it should be completely opposite of that. But it's just another prove that when movement has enough followers it stops being about principles and becomes all about totalitarian control and power.

[The Deadman]

https://twitter.com/abc7newsbayarea/...32310579548160

Apparently she isn't going to push the issue any further. Probably because they were false.

[ProphetofGanja]

Originally Posted by The Deadman

https://twitter.com/abc7newsbayarea/...32310579548160

Apparently she isn't going to push the issue any further. Probably because they were false.

Or maybe because it feels like trying to tear down a wall by bashing your head against it, to no effect. But I think you're too dumb to get it

[The Deadman]

Originally Posted by ProphetofGanja

Or maybe because it feels like trying to tear down a wall by bashing your head against it, to no effect. But I think you're too dumb to get it

Only thing I dont get is why a letter was hidden for 2 months, only to surface when this dude was going to be confirmed, and as soon as he IS confirmed, she no longer wants to pursue it. If she was truly assaulted, she keeps going after it. You dont change your mind on whether or not to keep the issue alive after something happens.

[Autbot_Benz]

Welp we got a man child as president and now an easily angry beer loving fratboy as Scotus what a time to be alive

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by ProphetofGanja

Or maybe because it feels like trying to tear down a wall by bashing your head against it, to no effect.

Agree probably this.

Supposedly she didn't want it all to go public to being with, it isn't like she sent that letter to the media, someone else leaked it and forced her into the spotlight. So yeah, she might not have wanted to go through all this to this extent to begin with, simply wanted insiders to be aware of what she supposedly knew of him. If it's an uphill battle that isn't going to go anywhere I can't blame a person for deciding it isn't worth continuing to disrupt their life, family, etc when it is to the point that the other person was pretty much handed immunity.

It's probably a lost cause at this point even if he did do what she said... What more is there at that point then for her to probably just try to go back to her life and try to put it aside again as she's presumably already been doing all these years.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Welp we got a man child as president and now an easily angry beer loving fratboy as Scotus what a time to be alive

Sad thing is, we deserve nothing more.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Sad thing is, we deserve nothing more.

Originally Posted by Autbot_Benz

Welp we got a man child as president and now an easily angry beer loving fratboy as Scotus what a time to be alive

Can't argue with either of you here.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

Sad thing is, we deserve nothing more.

People with mindset like this are one of the worst things humanity has to offer.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by Sumac

People with mindset like this are one of the worst things humanity has to offer.

People's actions and choices deserve consequences.

We the people make the choices, we the people deserve nothing more than those same choices.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

^What he said. Pretty much sums it up. Or to put it another way, this country made its bed, now it gets to lie in it.

[Leo656]

Without evidence, accusations are just words.

People lie every day, so any person repeatedly saying "This happened. I keep saying it did, so you have to believe me!" doesn't wash.

False accusations ruin lives.

Thousands of people have served jail time for rape accusations that they were falsely accused of; many of whom were later exonerated and set free thanks to DNA evidence conclusively proving that they were falsely accused.

That's why evidence is important, not just words.

It's like people aren't getting it. Those people had best hope THEY don't find a finger pointing at them one day, and that the finger pointer doesn't buy the whole "Accusations are proof of guilt" logic.

There wasn't any proof, end of story. There was a chance, a long time ago, to establish a credible trail of evidence, if her story was true, and she declined to do so. End of story. She's either lying, OR, she made a poor decision 40 years ago based on emotion rather than common sense. Should have reported it, if it happened. That will never NOT be true, I'm sorry.

It's like Johnny Depp and Amber Heard; there's some smoke to the fire but ultimately, nobody can prove anything. I'm convinced he hit her, my wife thinks he couldn't possibly have - because she has a crush on him, mostly - but either way, only the two of them really know. So even though I *think* he hit Amber Heard, without any proof I say he should be allowed to keep his job until the time when there is enough proof to say for certain that he's a bad guy. We simply don't know enough to make that judgment.

If proof comes out about Kavanaugh, then absolutely, string him up. Until then, oh well. No sense being mad about stuff that nobody can prove. That's why empathy is supposed to not factor into these kinds of decisions. You're supposed to give people the benefit of the doubt unless there IS no more doubt of their guilt.

Have any of the people who are furious even once considered the idea that maybe he's innocent? I've had people tell me, "There's NO way he's innocent," but you weren't there, were you? What are you basing that on? Right, emotion. "Feelings". Horrible.

If this were a court case in which he were threatened with jail time, he still probably would have been found Not Guilty, by way of reasonable doubt. That's what "reasonable doubt" means; "Reasonably, I don't have enough evidence to convict this person, and it would be wrong to punish them based solely on words. I have doubts of their actual Guilt; thus, Not Guilty."

I mean, I'unno how well some folks did in Criminal Justice class. I did okay; I know we spent a whole big chunk of time on how you can't rush to judgment without any evidence. Granted, we're talking 20 years ago or so, but I doubt things have changed much.

I agree with those who say this whole thing has seemed highly political from the start. It felt way more like a "Stop the Evil GOP" thing than an actual thing about empathy for women. AND it gave me flashbacks to the mid-90s, when all the accusers and mountains of evidence against You-Know-Who was just a "dirty trick" of the Republicans. Funny how things play out when all the roles are reversed, isn't it? Did "All women NOT need to be heard and believed" back in '96? Because I was pretty pissed off about it back then, and even my teachers were like, "Yeah, but he's a Nice Guy. And besides, they all do that stuff." Even my female teachers were making excuses for the guy! Which is why I find the current teeth-gnashing and caterwauling on the Dems side kind of... well, I won't lie, it's funny. They threw women under the bus when one of their own was accused, NOW they're Champions of Women's Rights. It's "interesting".

Anyways. On to the next conspiracy, folks. This one's out of gas.
-------------------------------------

On a side note: When exactly is "everything" supposed to start falling apart? People keep telling me the country's a mess and everything is a disaster, but I've been on a pretty hot run the last few years. So far so good on my end. What's the problem? I think some people spend all their time counting down the days waiting for an Apocalypse that isn't coming, all because the Guys In Suits that they like aren't the ones sitting in the right chairs. Relax. It's all theater.

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

People's actions and choices deserve consequences.

We the people make the choices, we the people deserve nothing more than those same choices.

Punishing everyone for decisions of the few is stupid and unjust. It's infantile mindset.
Collective responsibility is one of the most idiotic ideas that had ever graced mind of the human being.

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

^What he said. Pretty much sums it up. Or to put it another way, this country made its bed, now it gets to lie in it.

Thanks Bobama!

Originally Posted by Leo656

On a side note: When exactly is "everything" supposed to start falling apart? People keep telling me the country's a mess and everything is a disaster, but I've been on a pretty hot run the last few years. So far so good on my end. What's the problem? I think some people spend all their time counting down the days waiting for an Apocalypse that isn't coming, all because the Guys In Suits that they like aren't the ones sitting in the right chairs. Relax. It's all theater.

Just fear-mongering of the losing side.

When things go bad for the ideology, start scaring people with wars, disasters and whatnot to unite them. It works, sometimes.

The problem here is that lefties lost connection to reality so much that their preaching comes as nothing more than a paranoid rumbling.

The fact of the matter is that left ideology doesn't work, when applied to the modern world. Multiculturalism - doesn't work. Intersectionality - doesn't work. More and more often than not, stalwart Social Justice Warriors come as paranoid conspiracy theorists or hypocritical manipulators themselves.

Their appeal for morality doesn't work, because, due to the spread of post-modernism, which in part was made possible by lefties themselves, people don't trust them and their ideology, seeing them as phony as other politicians, for a good reason, I must add.

So, all in all, this situation was created by lefties too, who were unable to win, who were unable to accept their lose with grace, and instead has radicalized and become scream bunch of paranoid conspiracy-ridden hateful idiots.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Punishing everyone for decisions of the few is stupid and unjust. It's infantile mindset.
Collective responsibility is one of the most idiotic ideas that had ever graced mind of the human being.

I frankly have to agree with this 100%. I'm quite fond of saying, "When I do good, give me all the credit; when I do wrong, give me all the blame." One thing I don't like to do is share, so I don't share either credit nor blame; it's all on me, either way.

Like, an entire race isn't to blame for what some people did a few hundred years ago, and people living right now shouldn't be lumped in with them. An entire corporation full of people isn't to blame for the words of a CEO or an employee. All men (or all women) shouldn't be painted with the same brush for the actions of a few. Etc. etc.

The entire reason I don't vote, is because I believe in INDIVIDUAL Responsibility. If I vote for someone, and they win, and then they "turn heel" and start screwing sh*t up, I'm kinda partly at fault for that because I helped put them there, by a certain point of view. Ultimately, only they are at fault for their own actions and misdeeds, but I still endorsed them, and I don't want anyone pointing fingers at me like "YOU helped cause this", as we see people love to do. "F*ck you, I was home jackin' it, don't try and get me involved."

Which is why I snicker at people who do vote, because they then abdicate ALL responsibility when Their Guy does something bad. Well, didn't you say they were qualified? Maybe we should yell at you a little, eh? It's so selective, anyway; when someone they hate does something bad, they're a monster and so is anyone who supports them. When someone they like does something bad, they're "A victim of circumstance" or whatever. It's all stupid.

But yeah, "We all made a mess and deserve to be punished for it!" is horse sh*t. Most people truly don't give a sh*t and are too busy going to work every day to even care. Seriously; find someone working 6-7 days a week to feed a family and ask them what they think of The President, or Congress, or who sits on the Supreme Court, and 9 out of 10 times you'll get an answer along the lines of "Who gives a sh*t?" Maybe with a little "F*ck 'em, they're all crooks" thrown in. But they're absolutely not invested to the unhealthy degree some people seem to be. And it doesn't make them bad people, it just means they have better priorities and don't feel like being miserable constantly. Try telling them some of this "We all deserve to be punished" stuff, they'll laugh at you. They may even call you a nut and say that everything's fine from where they sit.

Sh*t's fine, relax.

Originally Posted by Sumac

So, all in all, this situation was created by lefties too, who were unable to win, who were unable to accept their lose with grace, and instead has radicalized and become scream bunch of paranoid conspiracy-ridden hateful idiots.

I can't disagree with this, either. I mean, when you start refusing to allow invited speakers to speak at college campuses, threatening them with physical violence, and saying things like, "The First Amendment doesn't matter if you say...", or "It's okay to harass people who are out to dinner with their family because they work for the White House," or "We all should riot, burn and break sh*t if...", or "I hope somebody shoots the President"... you're NOT the Good Guys. And even if we agree on some things, I'm definitely not going to support or associate with you.

Nobody likes a zealot. Once you turn three, banging your rattle and throwing a tantrum isn't supposed to be an acceptable way of making yourself heard, and it definitely doesn't make you right. Even if your heart IS in the right place, as it usually is with these types. Based on what they claim to believe in, they definitely mean well, they just have no self-awareness. "I'm SUCH a Good Person that if you don't agree with me I'LL KILL YOU."