The Nintendo Discussion Thread

[Shred Head]

Originally Posted by TheCanadiandrome

yeah for sure. i plan to get mostly Nintendo games, but there's a bunch of others i wanna get non-nintendo wise.

How are 'Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition' or Assassins Creed III, Batman: Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV Black Flag? would anyone reccommend these?

I got Batman Arkham Origins and while it defiantly is a unnecessary prequel that doesn't change much gameplay wise from the last game. I still say its a really good game and is very fun. Makes the wait for Arkham Knight hurt less I will say that. There is one major problem with the game they stopped supporting it with DLC so some stuff like the Mr. Freeze mission and costumes you cant get unless you buy it for the PS3 or X360.

As for Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition if you don't have it on anther console you really should get it. But if you played it before not much is changed its got all the DLC and an armored costume but thats really it. Your not going to miss anything from before.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Do you guys think that releasing the NX to replace the Wii U might possibly upset developers since the same thing happened to Sega when they replaced the Saturn with the Dreamcast?

In the U.S.A., the Saturn had already failed years before the Dreamcast's debut. The NX is still a couple of years off, so I don't think it's going to deter any 3rd party developers from Wii U software, since there's so very few of them anyway.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Originally Posted by LeotheLateBloomer

Do you guys think that releasing the NX to replace the Wii U might possibly upset developers since the same thing happened to Sega when they replaced the Saturn with the Dreamcast?

Originally Posted by oldmanwinters

In the U.S.A., the Saturn had already failed years before the Dreamcast's debut. The NX is still a couple of years off, so I don't think it's going to deter any 3rd party developers from Wii U software, since there's so very few of them anyway.

This is one of those topics that is very interesting to me. I love researching the statistics and comparing the companies' historical sales, etc. I just get a kick out of it. It can be rather difficult to find some of the sales statistics that I wanted (like how many game sales are tied into each console sale on average) but I've been wondering about the relationship/comparison of Nintendo and the Wii U to Sega and the Sega CD/32X/Saturn/Dreamcast debacle.

It's no secret that Sega really loused up on making consoles that people wanted (or even knew were a new console- I'm looking at you 32X). One can't help but draw comparisons from Sega and their console stacking while using old Genesis controllers to the Wii U and it's reliance on Wii Remotes, etc. It's also no secret that Nintendo hasn't been cutting edge as far as graphically speaking or computing power for a while now. Despite that, they sold more Wiis than PS3 or Xbox 360 (as far as any statistics I can currently find Wii- 101.44 million, PS3- 87- million, Xbox 360- 80 million). We're only talking consoles now, not how many games the average console owner purchased.

A year after the Wii U debuted (with no other "next gen" console competition) there were still consumers that thought it was just an extra add-on or peripheral. Back when the Sega 32X came out (or Sega CD, Saturn or even the Dreamcast) the average gamer wasn't so plugged into the internet, advertising new consoles wasn't as easy. There were the gaming magazines (Nintendo Power and the like) and there was signage/staff in the store, but other than word of mouth, that was about it- for the average gamer. Now, there's not much of an excuse for not being able to get the word out, I still don't understand how Nintendo didn't advertise the Wii U better. Which, to some extent is why they didn't have the sales to justify enough third party software to further justify console sales as the system aged.

I looked up statistics about Sega consoles (Sega Master System-Dreamcast), Nintendo consoles (NES-Wii U), Playstation consoles (PS1-PS4) and Xbox consoles (Xbox-Xbox One), hoping to find a more direct correlation between console lifespan/sales figures, etc to come to a conclusion about any correlations between Nintendo and Sega and other than the short console lifespan (which isn't confirmed yet at all for the Wii U) I'm just not coming up with enough data to really decide either way. What I am sure of is, after us 80s & 90s kids get a bit older and their primary audience transitions to kids that grew up with mostly digital games in an increasingly disposable society and don't necessarily have that nostalgic mentality of holding onto beloved characters from their childhood, Nintendo might not be able to rest on their laurels anymore.

I love you Nintendo, I have had so many great memories playing on the consoles over the years, but if they don't come out of the gate with this next console and just wow the pants off of us, I fear they may become a "Software" company.... not a "Console" company. This is just my view of it, I love talking about this kind of stuff.

Here are some of the links for people that like 'em!
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/library...ales_e1412.pdf

http://www.craveonline.com/gaming/ar...old-since-1994

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/1...onsole-market/

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Dawnatello Turtle Chick

I looked up statistics about Sega consoles (Sega Master System-Dreamcast), Nintendo consoles (NES-Wii U), Playstation consoles (PS1-PS4) and Xbox consoles (Xbox-Xbox One), hoping to find a more direct correlation between console lifespan/sales figures, etc to come to a conclusion about any correlations between Nintendo and Sega and other than the short console lifespan (which isn't confirmed yet at all for the Wii U) I'm just not coming up with enough data to really decide either way.

Statistics hardly show half of the story in the case of Sega. The history behind Sega's collapse is far more complex than anything you can pull from Nintendo's stumbles with the Wii U. The two situations are different on so many levels.

I have some rebuttals to the notion that Nintendo's situation mirrors Sega in the slightest.

First, Nintendo is coming off of two of the most successful pieces of game hardware in history going into the Wii U. With the Dreamcast Sega was coming off three absolutely abysmal pieces of hardware in the span of 3 years.

Sega was a company at war with itself during this entire time. The Japanese and American branches of Sega were constantly butting heads and the in-fighting led to so many crossed wires and poor decision making that the company was destroying itself from within. On the other side, Nintendo is Nintendo and they're making decisions worldwide based on what's best for them as a whole.

Sega burned bridges when they were desperate and Nintendo has done the exact opposite. Nintendo ignored their fanbase, to their detriment, during most of the Wii's lifespan, but they were doing so well that it hardly mattered. With their Wii U struggles they have directly targeted their hardcore fans, which has at least allowed them to sail the Wii U to profitability, rather than sink it completely. On the other hand, Sega beat their fans over the head with the Sega CD/32X when they desperately needed them, ensuring the Saturn would receive a less than warm welcome. Not only did they piss off and split their fan base, but they simultaneously alienated both developers and retailers with their surprise release of the Saturn. They caught developers off guard and created an enormous drought in their library on day one and they made the console exclusive to specific retailers, cutting out big guns like Walmart and Best Buy, thereby limiting their reach and killing retailer cooperation. The Saturn was also the Frankenstein's monster of game hardware, making it not only a poor selling piece of hardware, but one that was difficult to work with. This incredible sh*t storm of poor decisions created the perfect climate for the Dreamcast to absolutely bomb and blow Sega out of the hardware market.

Nintendo isn't quite fighting themselves the way Sega was. The main issues facing Nintendo are shifting market interest and a steady rise of popularity in games that are directly opposed to their design philosophy. Less people want the kind of experience Nintendo is selling, but their quality hasn't slipped. That's something far different than Sega making every wrong turn possible, while simultaneously making poor products. Nintendo has **** the bed on marketing (Wii U is seriously the worst name ever) and multiple other fronts, but they aren't shooting themselves in the foot over and over again the way Sega did.

I do think if the NX ends up being a bomb and Nintendo exits hardware that the comparisons between the Saturn/Wii U will be very very interesting to talk about. They already share a lot in common. If they end up becoming the precursor to their companies swan song console it'll be a fitting end to both legacies.

[sdp]

You can't use sales data from Sega to predict what is going to happen to Nintendo. Sega was a poorly managed company and had made too many blunders already so the situations are quite different. You also can't look at the industry in the past and compare it to now since it's an entirely different industry, you can actually find more parallels with the current film industry. Nintendo should and is definitely concerned about their future but it's probably not for the same reasons "gamers" in forums or blogs talk about in their nintendo is doomed articles. Nintendo has a lot of hardcore fans but they can't support a console by themselves. Consoles in general are likely on their way out in the next decade or so, "hardcore" gamers started avoiding Nintendo consoles since the Genesis days and they were only able to beat Sony and Microsoft because they had a casual market with the Wii and kids with the DS but those markets have moved to casual games on mobile devices and are not coming back. Sony is invested on the playstation brand not because it's one of their few divisions that is actually making money but because they see it in the same light now as Microsoft did when they got into the Games industry and it wasn't because of "gamers" but a battle for the living room. I think the industry is going to continue changing a lot in the next few years and we'll see were we are, it's difficult to make long term predictions without a lot of speculation.

But if you want my long term predictions I don't see Nintendo ever becoming a third party developer, it's just too risky and costly and one bad game can destroy your company, just take a look at all the casualties in the past ten years of this and it's only going to get worse before it gets better and companies start scaling back. I see Nintendo scaling back and becoming a smaller company with a niche audience that caters to kids going back to their roots as a toy maker instead of continuing on the risky competition for the living room with Sony and Microsoft which is also quite interesting since Sony isn't in any good shape either whatsoever and Microsoft is stuck in a rut and not being able to get into any new industries as the technology world is changing. For short term predictions they'll continue supporting Wii U as much as they can until then and continue being for good or worse the "stubborn" Nintendo that we all know. And they will likely release a new console in late 2017 at the earliest but it'll have some type of innovation/gimmick which we won't know for quite a while,

[Peanut]

Yeah, I think we're coming into the twilight years of what we know as the "traditional" video game market. I'm interested to see what it becomes, but my interest in following it to whatever end that may be is almost nonexistent at this point.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Statistics hardly show half of the story in the case of Sega. The history behind Sega's collapse is far more complex than anything you can pull from Nintendo's stumbles with the Wii U. The two situations are different on so many levels.

Absolutely, first of all we're talking 2 very different time periods, with 2 very different consumer cultures as well as differences in how the companies treat their products in the industry as a whole. The gaming industry has matured greatly in between the 2 periods we're referencing.

Originally Posted by Peanut

I have some rebuttals to the notion that Nintendo's situation mirrors Sega in the slightest.

First, Nintendo is coming off of two of the most successful pieces of game hardware in history going into the Wii U. With the Dreamcast Sega was coming off three absolutely abysmal pieces of hardware in the span of 3 years.

To be fair, the Sega CD & 32X were both pretty bad (in an almost comedic way), but I can hardly see the Saturn as abysmal. Was it what the company needed to redeem themselves? No, but it was a nice system and I can't come up with much to argue against it other than it wasn't what Sega needed. Dreamcast was definitely a much better system but unfortunately by that time, the damage was already done. I'm speaking strictly statistics here, but, like I said I wanted to see if statistically speaking, any correlations became apparent.

Originally Posted by Peanut

Sega was a company at war with itself during this entire time. The Japanese and American branches of Sega were constantly butting heads and the in-fighting led to so many crossed wires and poor decision making that the company was destroying itself from within. On the other side, Nintendo is Nintendo and they're making decisions worldwide based on what's best for them as a whole.

Sega burned bridges when they were desperate and Nintendo has done the exact opposite. Nintendo ignored their fanbase, to their detriment, during most of the Wii's lifespan, but they were doing so well that it hardly mattered. With their Wii U struggles they have directly targeted their hardcore fans, which has at least allowed them to sail the Wii U to profitability, rather than sink it completely. On the other hand, Sega beat their fans over the head with the Sega CD/32X when they desperately needed them, ensuring the Saturn would receive a less than warm welcome. Not only did they piss off and split their fan base, but they simultaneously alienated both developers and retailers with their surprise release of the Saturn. They caught developers off guard and created an enormous drought in their library on day one and they made the console exclusive to specific retailers, cutting out big guns like Walmart and Best Buy, thereby limiting their reach and killing retailer cooperation. The Saturn was also the Frankenstein's monster of game hardware, making it not only a poor selling piece of hardware, but one that was difficult to work with. This incredible sh*t storm of poor decisions created the perfect climate for the Dreamcast to absolutely bomb and blow Sega out of the hardware market.

Yes, Wii U catered to us hard core fans, as I stated the lack of third party offerings is one of the reasons the Wii U hasn't been as successful as intended. The only reason is has been profitable is due to the hard core fans playing the Nintendo branded games. Like I said, how long before the kids that are growing up in a digital age with less emphasis on keeping physical copies of everything outnumber the hardcore fans that are currently keeping the Wii U afloat. I didn't say it was going to be the next generation of gaming products, but I'm just pointing out that although the Wii outsold all the competition, gamers as consumers are over the fad that the Wii provided and Nintendo, should they wish to continue to be a long-term gaming contender, needs to step it up. If they were to release a console in the future (say 10 years from now) without enough 3rd party support it may have been a completely different story. Their beloved franchises are the only thing keeping them afloat. My point is that will only last so long unless they can make a longer lasting console that will help them gain back some of the video game market.

I'm not denying that Sega screwed up every which way from Sunday, but my point is I hope Nintendo can learn from history and not make similar mistakes.

Originally Posted by Peanut

Nintendo isn't quite fighting themselves the way Sega was. The main issues facing Nintendo are shifting market interest and a steady rise of popularity in games that are directly opposed to their design philosophy. Less people want the kind of experience Nintendo is selling, but their quality hasn't slipped. That's something far different than Sega making every wrong turn possible, while simultaneously making poor products. Nintendo has **** the bed on marketing (Wii U is seriously the worst name ever) and multiple other fronts, but they aren't shooting themselves in the foot over and over again the way Sega did.

I do think if the NX ends up being a bomb and Nintendo exits hardware that the comparisons between the Saturn/Wii U will be very very interesting to talk about. They already share a lot in common. If they end up becoming the precursor to their companies swan song console it'll be a fitting end to both legacies.

Overall, I definitely think if Sega CD/32X hadn't existed that Sega would've survived the Saturn (I still say it's a decent console) and may have even thrived with the Dreamcast, but again, they were screwing up across the board so who knows? I never said that the Nintendo branded games had become lackluster, but when your fallback for calling a console profitable is that your own franchises saved it's butt, then perhaps it's not that much of a success. If the PS4 or Xbox One had to solely rely on their own franchises the way that Nintendo is, they would have been dead in the water.

Seriously though, the guy in charge of naming the Wii U should be fired.... Dolphin was a better name, lol.

Nintendo's main redemption here is being smart about maintaining the rights to/creating so many beloved franchises that are only available by purchasing the Wii U. I hope that my hypothesis about there being any strong correlations between the two console companies is incorrect or if they are, that Nintendo does the smart thing and learn from history so they aren't doomed to repeat it.

If this next console isn't profitable enough and with the mobile gaming industry becoming a bigger market, maybe, just maybe Nintendo might see it as more profitable to just cash in on their titles, not their hardware... I hope not. I really, really hope not. It just seems like more and more, this next console may end up being a make it or break it direction that they head towards.

Just my opinion, but I love debating about this stuff!!

[oldmanwinters]

As a Sega fanboy, I actually enjoy all this reminiscing about company missteps. Ah... memories.

I was actually a proud owner of the 32X back in the day, but I waited until the Dreamcast until getting another console. Ironically, the Wii U is the first "new" console I've owned since the DC. I've been fortunate enough to pick up some used Gamecubes, Saturn, PS2, and XBox original along the way though. So for me, there's long been a strange similar appeal between the Dreamcast and the Wii U. From my perspective, both systems represent their parent companies going all-out with 1st party content while being largely ignored by 3rd party developers. And I've always respected that as a game player.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Dawnatello Turtle Chick

To be fair, the Sega CD & 32X were both pretty bad (in an almost comedic way), but I can hardly see the Saturn as abysmal. Was it what the company needed to redeem themselves? No, but it was a nice system and I can't come up with much to argue against it other than it wasn't what Sega needed.

I meant abysmal both in a technical and marketing sense. The hardware was congealed in a gutter and Sega did seemingly everything they could to ensure it failed in North America. That said the Saturn is easily my favourite Sega console by a mile.

My point is that will only last so long unless they can make a longer lasting console that will help them gain back some of the video game market.

I don't really see how this has to do with Nintendo's current situation being related to Sega's fate, which was the entire point of my post. I agree to a point either way. I don't know that there will be a market for them to gain back.

I'm not denying that Sega screwed up every which way from Sunday, but my point is I hope Nintendo can learn from history and not make similar mistakes.

I don't know that Nintendo has much to learn from the mistakes of Sega. They're in such very different positions. That was the point of my entire post.

I never said that the Nintendo branded games had become lackluster, but when your fallback for calling a console profitable is that your own franchises saved it's butt, then perhaps it's not that much of a success.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here.

hope that my hypothesis about there being any strong correlations between the two console companies is incorrect or if they are, that Nintendo does the smart thing and learn from history so they aren't doomed to repeat it.

Again, I don't think they're even close to the same thing. Sega had the industry in the palm of their hands with the Genesis. A successful followup would probably mean Sega would still be here today, but they f*cked the entire thing up and killed their console business when it was getting mainstream hot. Sega killed Sega. Nintendo isn't killing Nintendo. The shifting market and volatile nature of an industry on the verge of massive change is killing Nintendo.

[CyberCubed]

The next Nintendo console might be the last traditional home console from them. As I said previously, third parties won't be fooled again when they abandoned the Wii-U within 2 years. There's also really nothing Nintendo can do now that little kids are growing up with mobile games and stuff like Minecraft and Angry Birds. The rest of the gaming industry is with Sony and Microsoft and won't change.

Sometimes I feel like the only people still buying Nintendo consoles are 25-30+ year old adults who grew up with Nintendo in the 80's and 90's, as well as their siblings or younger family members who they introduce them to.

Why pay $300 for a Wii-U and Mario 3D World when a parent can get a kid an Ipad and let them play Minecraft? And said Ipad does more than just games so they see it as more than "just a game console."

Nintendo is not going to keep stubbornly release new consoles every 4 years now if the previous one keeps bombing. This probably would have happened even sooner if the Wii wasn't such a casual success as the Gamecube only sold 21 million consoles. The Wii-U will be lucky if it makes Gamecube numbers by the time it ends.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The rest of the gaming industry is with Sony and Microsoft and won't change.

The "rest" of the gaming industry is on borrowed time.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The next Nintendo console might be the last traditional home console from them. As I said previously, third parties won't be fooled again when they abandoned the Wii-U within 2 years. There's also really nothing Nintendo can do now that little kids are growing up with mobile games and stuff like Minecraft and Angry Birds. The rest of the gaming industry is with Sony and Microsoft and won't change.

Sometimes I feel like the only people still buying Nintendo consoles are 25-30+ year old adults who grew up with Nintendo in the 80's and 90's, as well as their siblings or younger family members who they introduce them to.

Why pay $300 for a Wii-U and Mario 3D World when a parent can get a kid an Ipad and let them play Minecraft? And said Ipad does more than just games so they see it as more than "just a game console."

Nintendo is not going to keep stubbornly release new consoles every 4 years now if the previous one keeps bombing. This probably would have happened even sooner if the Wii wasn't such a casual success as the Gamecube only sold 21 million consoles. The Wii-U will be lucky if it makes Gamecube numbers by the time it ends.

Also in the future, CyberCubed becomes the next Michael Patcher.

[CyberCubed]

Its rather obvious the direction gaming is headed in, the writing has been on the wall for a while. There were also a lot of inside rumors that Microsoft wanted to sell off the Xbox brand because getting into the living room is no longer as important as it was in the early 2000's.

10 years from now there might no longer be anything called a, "game console" and everything will just be streamed. Who knows.

I do agree that the era of classic videogame consoles is probably drawing to a close, even if it'll probably take another decade for that to happen.

[Dawnatello Turtle Chick]

So I unintentionally derailed this thread.... so.... Who's looking forward to the new Zelda game next year? Also.... why is that stupid GameCube adapter so hard to find at an actual store...?

**Edit- GameCube controller adapter for the Wii U

[sdp]

I don't think it's all doom and gloom for the future of gaming, just that it's going to be different for better or worse. I had grown out of gaming in my teens and got back because of the DS and the Wii since they offered something "new" to me, a new way to play. Mobile gaming is not going to be growing much more either so I don't think it's all just a "mobile" gaming futuer either. We'll see, oh and to clear when I said Nintendo might go back to their "toy" roots I picture something still electronic and proprietary like leapfrog, not necessarily that but I didn't mean they were going to sell plastic toys.


As far as the Gamecube adapter, I was pissed I couldn't find one but now that it's clear that it's a "Smash" only adapter and even if third parties want to support it they can't I lost interest in it. I still want some third party device that I can attach to my Wii U so I can play the VC games with their actual controllers. The Wii had plenty of these and I can technically still use them since the Wii Classic controller is still compatible with the Wii U and that's how those adapters worked by using that port. Was it really that hard for Nintendo to keep the Gamecube adapter as a niche adapter? Why even take the effort to actually announce it on a direct if they only made a few for lucky hardcore players were going to be able to get it? Hell did they expect everyone who bought the adapter to buy 4 Gamecube controllers along with it? Because my stores are filled with gamecube controllers and yet no adapters and none will be coming.

[Freeman]

This is coming out in a few days
Anyone here into Mii Plaza games?

I'm lucky to have plenty street pass in my area thanks to some local videogame and comics stores so I have the chance to enjoy these games in their fullest.
Can't understand why japanese people love fishing games so much, but zombie game looks fun and challenging at some level

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2015...15-983049.html

[Skylanders fan]

my gamecube controller adapter shouldbe in on may

[Zulithe]

Enjoying Xenoblade on my New 3DS XL I was getting frustrated because the graphics have taken such a hit that sometimes it's hard to see the quest markers above NPCs until you get pretty close to them. It's a trade-off I'm gonna have to live with... the game can still look gorgeous at times though. For a handheld game it's impressive.

And yeah I can't wait to shell out the cash and update my Mii Plaza and get the new games. I'm a sucker for fishing games sometimes... this should be fun.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Originally Posted by Shred Head

I got Batman Arkham Origins and while it defiantly is a unnecessary prequel that doesn't change much gameplay wise from the last game. I still say its a really good game and is very fun. Makes the wait for Arkham Knight hurt less I will say that. There is one major problem with the game they stopped supporting it with DLC so some stuff like the Mr. Freeze mission and costumes you cant get unless you buy it for the PS3 or X360.

As for Batman: Arkham City Armored Edition if you don't have it on anther console you really should get it. But if you played it before not much is changed its got all the DLC and an armored costume but thats really it. Your not going to miss anything from before.

awesome, awesome! thanks a bunch buddy

[oldmanwinters]

I was a little surprised when I went to Club Nintendo today and saw the notice that it was experiencing heavy traffic. I was just gonna check my points and weigh my options for one more reward redemption, but the site wouldn't even let me log in.

And then I realized that the Mewtwo reward is supposed to be handed out tomorrow. Oh, those eager Smash fans compulsively checking the site to be among the first recipients...