Star Wars Episode 8

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Oh. I forgot that part, I think. They literally mention that, don't they?

I think so. It's been about a month though and I've had a lot on my mind, though, so I can't remember for sure.

Which wasn't contradictory. The midichlorians were explained as markers to see who had the most likelihood of having Force potential from a testing standpoint. Which makes sense in pre-Empire, Jedi Council days. It would be pretty exhausting for the Jedi Council to spend weeks training millions of people how to lift rocks, only to find out 10 guys in the bunch ever had any chance at being able to do so. Ergo, they made a test.

You have a lot of midichlorians, it doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be Force sensitive, it means you have a higher likelihood of turning out to be Force sensitive over someone with less.

I don't see it as a big deal and it didn't change a thing from the OT. Yoda wasn't talking about screening Padawans when he was telling Luke about the Force.

When you lay it out, you're right, actually. I never thought the midichlorians were a big deal anyway. But for some reason that got a lot of people bothered.

I do think the force has always been vaguely defined enough that it can fit whatever you need it to, philosophical underpinnings aside. As it is, you can move stuff with your mind, persuade people, speed up, jump high and project lightning with it, all varying powers. It's kinda like space magic.

It's like the freaking Alamo with Star Wars fans. Dumb.

And every one of them thought they were Davey Crockett, waging a long, lonely battle over something of great importance when it was the most minor of details that changed almost nothing. It's always been an interesting hill for Star Wars fans to die on. Interesting and frustrating, because it's one of those things that always came up and made talking Star Wars insufferable for years.

[plastroncafe]

One person's Dumb Detail is another's Pivotal Character Moment.
Which, let's face it...is pretty much the crux of the hate the new movies are getting.

I liked Han shooting first, because it said to me a lot about his character without him actually having to SAY it. Sure we find him in the den of scum and villainy, and yeah we know that he's smooth...or at least he thinks he's smooth, and that he thinks can talk himself out of any situation.

But then he actually kills a dude when it's clear Greedo isn't seeing things his way.

He's a literal loose canon.
And I liked that about him.
I think it makes his attachment to the Rebellion, and to Leia, more powerful.

You disagree.
Okay. Yay?

I prefer The Force to be more space magic than space science, because I have a background in science...so I find crap science to be distracting.
That's why I find midichlorians to be unsatisfying.

You disagree.
Okay.

[Andrew NDB]

I would agree with people that, of all of the OT changes in the special editions, the Han and Greedo business is the most unnecessary of the changes. Does it bother me, though? No.

[plastroncafe]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

I would agree with people that, of all of the OT changes in the special editions, the Han and Greedo business is the most unnecessary of the changes. Does it bother me, though? No.

Congratulations.

I would like to touch up on the speed at which information travels in the new movies, and how the slave kids can be talking about Luke's final fight on the Salt planet.

Those kids are slaves on the Casino Planet. It was made clear in the poorly paced casino scene that the folks on that planet are making money by exploitation and war profiteering, by selling to both sides.

I don't think it's beyond the realm of the possible for people on that planet to have heard about the stand off with Kylo and Luke.
Especially if the Resistance is reaching out to all their allies for help, and telling that story.
And the First Order, who was also present, tells that story.

That whole planet makes money off both sides of this conflict, and it's juicy damn gossip.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, if the kids were literally talking about Luke's sacrifice (and I guess they were) then there's really no arguing that something like that is what happened.

[dl316bh]

I feel like it was never really an issue of the argument itself and more that, grand scheme of things, it didn't really matter much. But everyone made it out like it was sacrilege and the worst thing that could ever have been done. It feels like every Star Wars discussion for years devolved into whether or not Han shot first, like the entire movie hinged on it. I think that, more than anything, soured me on the whole thing.

[plastroncafe]

It's been years since I've seen the re-releases, but...do any of the other upgrades in the movie actually change the narrative?

Wasn't it mostly just adding more creatures and ships to scenes, and then returning that deleted Jabba shake down?

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

It's been years since I've seen the re-releases, but...do any of the other upgrades in the movie actually change the narrative?

No.

Wasn't it mostly just adding more creatures and ships to scenes, and then returning that deleted Jabba shake down?

Mostly. And then things they shot new like Vader boarding his shuttle in Empire, actually getting the actress who the Rancor eats to come back and shoot some new stuff, showing the whole Wampa on Hoth, redoing some of the X-Wing stuff in ANH with CGI X-Wings to make it more dynamic. The whole added epilogue to RotJ with Coruscant and Naboo probably counts. Blinking Ewok eyes, making Jawa eyes not look like toy eyes, fixing matte boxes, improving the Death Stars' explosions, etc., etc.. I can't really point to any changes I didn't like. I wish they'd have gone even further.

[dl316bh]

Yeah, most of the changes were cosmetic. Special effects stuff. Plenty of it I like. Oddly, they seem to be a sticking point with fans too. I still see jokes in Youtube series poking fun at the things inserted. Though I don't know if that's by association with the stuff they have a major beef with.

I think only one scene per film had any significant retools. The added Jabba scene in ANH, the Wampa in Empire Strikes Back and the dance number in Return of the Jedi.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

No.



Mostly. And then things they shot new like Vader boarding his shuttle in Empire, actually getting the actress who the Rancor eats to come back and shoot some new stuff, showing the whole Wampa on Hoth, redoing some of the X-Wing stuff in ANH with CGI X-Wings to make it more dynamic. The whole added epilogue to RotJ with Coruscant and Naboo probably counts. Blinking Ewok eyes, making Jawa eyes not look like toy eyes, fixing matte boxes, improving the Death Stars' explosions, etc., etc.. I can't really point to any changes I didn't like. I wish they'd have gone even further.

I would argue han shooting greedo SECOND. does. it COMPLETELY changes his character from possible villain, to...maybe I'll give this guy a second to get off a shot and give him a small fighting chance.
It doesn't make sense of course, since it would almost have to be them doing a holster draw old west style sitting down...but that is what I think the edit does to han solo. it softens him up just a little.


they should have stopped at the second set of changes.

Wampa stuff, OK. Jedi Rocks, OK. Improved CG xwings, OK. better looking monsters not got from a stucky's costume supply shop? OK.

Blinking ewoks? erased darth vader eyebrows? super giant jabba door? blinking ewoks?

now we are getting into ocd territory where no matter what you change, it won't make it perfect.

in other news..smh. looks like the ignore list gets a little workout. Make one little comment that the movie literally did nothing to advance the plot.... and the argument that there is no way, by what we see in the movie, that the slave kids would have been able to hear about what went down..and out come the insults. I guess we have to use the plant joke with caution, not everyone gets it ;o)

see my comment to andrew on why i thought that ending made no sense. you didn't discuss it, you basically said 'cause it's in the movie, it's ok'. hence the plant joke.

[plastroncafe]

One of the things I liked about the original special effects was that they weren't perfect. I don't make films, and so getting to see how an effect works was always a treat. To a certain extent it made me feel like part of the process.

And so while I love deleted scenes, and additional content, I could really do without most of the cosmetic touch-ups.

[sdp]

Just imagine, if this had been a success, they would've thought they had "their" Star Wars and Bob Iger wouldn't have convinced Lucas to sell yet. Maybe Disney would've ended up buying it anyway since Iger/Lucas are friends but not before the Sequel trilogy was already in place.




I know I'm alone on this one but I loved the movie and I'm sad it didn't get a sequel.

[dl316bh]

Originally Posted by plastroncafe

One of the things I liked about the original special effects was that they weren't perfect. I don't make films, and so getting to see how an effect works was always a treat. To a certain extent it made me feel like part of the process.

And so while I love deleted scenes, and additional content, I could really do without most of the cosmetic touch-ups.

I can understand that. Some of the old effects really were kinda rough, though. But it's also a product of the time and the budget they had so you give it some leeway. I appreciate most of the changes though.

I know I'm alone on this one but I loved the movie and I'm sad it didn't get a sequel.

That image is from John Carter of Mars, right? I'd always meant to see that, but it just kind of slipped away from me. I've heard it was underappreciated.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by dl316bh

I can understand that. Some of the old effects really were kinda rough, though. But it's also a product of the time and the budget they had so you give it some leeway. I appreciate most of the changes though.

The special editions, and moreso the special-special editions on the blu-rays brought the OT up from something you can't show to kids/the younger crowd (without them rolling their eyes every few minutes something hokey is on screen or obviously FAKE) to something you... kind of can show them.

That image is from John Carter of Mars, right? I'd always meant to see that, but it just kind of slipped away from me. I've heard it was underappreciated.

John Carter of Mars is a funny thing. I watched it, and it just seems so boring, so derivative of other, better movies... which is ironic, because the source material actually is what inspired a lot of those movies to begin with.

[NinjaPug]

Originally Posted by sdp

Just imagine, if this had been a success, they would've thought they had "their" Star Wars and Bob Iger wouldn't have convinced Lucas to sell yet. Maybe Disney would've ended up buying it anyway since Iger/Lucas are friends but not before the Sequel trilogy was already in place.

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.c...hon-carter.jpg


I know I'm alone on this one but I loved the movie and I'm sad it didn't get a sequel.

You're not alone. I'm a big fan of John Carter and like it more than the 3 new SW movies we've gotten.

[Vegita-San]

It looks like a He-Man Spin Off from the 1987 movie.

With Teela by his side.

[Vegita-San]

in mark hamil we trust. the FIRST friggen draft? anyone else need any more proof Rian is full of crap and doesn't know a thing about star wars beyond the basics?

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by Vegita-San

in mark hamil we trust. the FIRST friggen draft? anyone else need any more proof Rian is full of crap and doesn't know a thing about star wars beyond the basics?

Rian Johnson has been a fan since he was a kid, he's read the comics/novels and based Luke's Jedi projection off one of the books from the Extended Universe. So yes, he does know about Star Wars.

[sdp]

Figures and merchandise in general for the last jedi has not been selling well and all the female line absolutely bombed. I think we will see some change, not because of whiny fans but because of financials.


The Last Jedi isn't bad because of Rian Johnson, any mistakes he made are forgivable, it's the direction JJ took the franchise and also Lucasfilm were the guilt lies.

[plastroncafe]

There was a female line?
Wait, no seriously...where?!