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View Poll Results: The scale
1 14 41.18%
2 3 8.82%
3 4 11.76%
4 4 11.76%
5 4 11.76%
6 3 8.82%
7 2 5.88%
8 1 2.94%
9 3 8.82%
10 5 14.71%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-28-2017, 02:28 PM   #21
Andrew NDB
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What's wrong with Nick or IDW's versions? They're all fairly different from one another.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:01 PM   #22
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I kind of wish they didn't exist outside of the OT and maybe IDW. They're not really all that memorable, at least to me.

When I saw the OT as a kid, I always thought Shredder/Krang's schemes would have been more successful if not for having to depend on those two.
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Mirage [is]...a comic about life and how life and the people closest to you just absolutely suck sometimes. It's "adult" in a very real sense, in that it deals with heavy themes that resonate more with adults, not that it's full of blood and titties or whatever.
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[TMNT 1990 director Steve] Barron recognized the early Mirage issues as perfect storyboards. It's a shame no other filmmaker has.
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:00 PM   #23
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I dislike ALL versions of Bebop & Rocksteady... ugh.
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Old 12-29-2017, 02:43 PM   #24
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I kind of wish they didn't exist outside of the OT and maybe IDW. They're not really all that memorable, at least to me.

When I saw the OT as a kid, I always thought Shredder/Krang's schemes would have been more successful if not for having to depend on those two.
You have a bit of a point. It's not like Robotnik keeps using Scratch and Grounder in future cartoons or games.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:35 PM   #25
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For me theyre great at what theyre supposed to do - be dumb, ill vote 10
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Old 12-30-2017, 11:02 AM   #26
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For me theyre great at what theyre supposed to do - be dumb, ill vote 10
Exactly. Times have changed, and we are past the era of incompetent bumbling idiot henchmen. Villains nowadays kill their minions for their failures, not keep them around and whine about 'being surrounded by idiots'.
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:06 PM   #27
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I don't really know how to vote. I love them in their element (the original series), but as far as I'm concerned, they should have stayed there.

That said, though I'd much prefer they not be included in new iterations, I have enjoyed all of their current versions for what they are.
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:13 PM   #28
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I don't really care for them, (not sure how many versions they are in) while I can appreciate some comic relief with the villains, not so much that.

Last edited by newfan; 12-30-2017 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:52 PM   #29
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Technically there are now 5 versions of them:

1. Original cartoon Bebop/Rocksteady
2. Archie TMNT Adventures Bebop/Rocksteady
3. Nick Bebop/Rocksteady
4. IDW Bebop/Rocksteady
5. Platinum Dunes Michael Bay Bebop/Rocksteady

They appeared in the 4kids series during Turtles Forever but those were the crossover versions rather than new incarnations. Then there's the videogame versions which were only loosely based on the cartoons.

Come to think of it all the incarnations of Bebop/Rocksteady are fairly different than each other. I don't know why people feel they're same across incarnations.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:10 PM   #30
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Well if you give me an option to vote for everything when you should only be allowed to vote for one then it's not my fault, it just tempts me. I also tend to vote for the underdog in polls even if it doesn't represent my opinion 100%.

I didn't like R&B as a kid but I grew to like them when I got back into TMNT and now I'm a big fan. I do think they can work in a more serious context, I always found them intimidating in TMNT II: The Arcade Game and in the action figures, in fact that's why I didn't like them as a kid in the cartoon, they weren't the badasses they were in my mind. Same with Slash.


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I don't really know how to vote. I love them in their element (the original series), but as far as I'm concerned, they should have stayed there.

That said, though I'd much prefer they not be included in new iterations, I have enjoyed all of their current versions for what they are.
You prefer not to have them included and yet you have enjoyed all current versions? I understand you it just didn't come out very clear.
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Old 12-31-2017, 01:10 AM   #31
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They're not even terrible, far from it.

Teribble is Ch'rell as Shredder. What a reductive Kraang wannabe disgusting blob.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:04 AM   #32
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They can't really exist in a thing we're supposed to take seriously. At all. At the very least, in a thing where we're supposed to take Shredder and the Foot Clan seriously, if they're to employ them.

"But what if we make them super gritty and serious and competant?" Then that's not Bebop and Rocksteady.

Plus, they're examples of the ooze behaving dumbly. Whether it's "touch this and then touch the ooze, then you're half of that!" or "it's your ancient animal genes come to roost after ooze exposure!"
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:17 AM   #33
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Teribble is Ch'rell as Shredder. What a reductive Kraang wannabe disgusting blob.
We barely saw Ch'rell himself since they used Oroku Saki throughout the series even after the Utrom reveal. And what difference does it make? Ch'rell is what a 2k3 version of Krang would have been like, plus we also discover there was a real human Oroku Saki from ancient Japan in Season 5 anyway.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:19 AM   #34
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They can't really exist in a thing we're supposed to take seriously. At all. At the very least, in a thing where we're supposed to take Shredder and the Foot Clan seriously, if they're to employ them.
A bunch of young mutated turtles, who fight like ninjas are a little goofy too, to be honest. That kind of contradiction between serious and funny is an integral part of the franchise. The question is more likely: how far do you wan't to go with that?

I think, the FW cartoon pushed that a little too far sometimes (for my taste at least). But I see a potential in the two characters.

I've read the IDW comics till the Northampton arc yet, and I think they have managed to present these guys as worthy opponents. Even the Nick series had moments where the two weren't that goofy.

So I don't think just because their source is in the FW cartoon, this two guys are bad characters. That would be a bit prejudiced.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:23 AM   #35
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"But what if we make them super gritty and serious and competant?" Then that's not Bebop and Rocksteady.
Bebop and Rocksteady were never very competent, but there is a precedent for making them more serious and aggressive, as it is how they were in the First (and to a certain extent, the second) season of the Original Cartoon before they became more comedic and childlike.
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The biggest villains were the censors. What they could do without being held back is my question. Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building. I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue. Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 12-31-2017, 02:51 AM   #36
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A bunch of young mutated turtles, who fight like ninjas are a little goofy too, to be honest.
If one were to follow Crisler's Law, I suppose.

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there is a precedent for making them more serious and aggressive, as it is how they were in the First (and to a certain extent, the second) season of the Original Cartoon before they became more comedic and childlike.
Maybe they were a twee more "serious and aggressive" in the first season, but they certainly were absolutely comedic and childlike even in their first appearances. It's arguably their hallmark "charm." Fine in the Fred Wolf show, radioactive in anything aiming to be taken even semi-seriously.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:35 AM   #37
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Yes, okay, Crislers Law... but you missed my point.

You say, you can accept serious stories about teenage mutant ninja turtles, but you can't imagine any possible incarnation of B&R being treated serously?

Is it possible, that you are arguing the whole time with Crislers Law - just not with the Turtles but with B&R?

Don't think about them as menacing... let's forget that. How about an introspective one? To be humiliated and dehumanised to mere animals by selfish people and forced to be hollow mercenaries, humans treated like frenzied war dogs.
To find themselfs in a state where any other chance to a socialized life is impossible, than to bow themselfs the will of their bosses, and find themselfs in battles they do not wish for. That could be something, huh?
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:44 AM   #38
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Yes, okay, Crislers Law... but you missed my point.

You say, you can accept serious stories about teenage mutant ninja turtles, but you can't imagine any possible incarnation of B&R being treated serously?

Is it possible, that you are arguing the whole time with Crislers Law - just not with the Turtles but with B&R?

Don't think about them as menacing... let's forget that. How about an introspective one? To be humiliated and dehumanised to mere animals by selfish people and forced to be hollow mercenaries, humans treated like frenzied war dogs.
To find themselfs in a state where any other chance to a socialized life is impossible, than to bow themselfs the will of their bosses, and find themselfs in battles they do not wish for. That could be something, huh?
OK. Just make them not ooze-derived (something else, anything), or connected (certainly not employed by!) to the Foot or Shredder and then they'd be remotely stomachable.

Though at that point... why even do so at all? They're not so intrinsically connected to the TMNT outside of nostalgia for the children's cartoon spinoff stuff. They didn't even appear in any films until the last one, which was a failure.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:50 AM   #39
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Don't think about them as menacing... let's forget that. How about an introspective one? To be humiliated and dehumanised to mere animals by selfish people and forced to be hollow mercenaries, humans treated like frenzied war dogs.
To find themselves in a state where any other chance to a socialized life is impossible, than to bow themselves the will of their bosses, and find themselves in battles they do not wish for. That could be something, huh?
Why yes, I would like that very much. That's a pretty good perspective to consider.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:57 AM   #40
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OK. Just make them not ooze-derived (something else, anything), or connected (certainly not employed by!) to the Foot or Shredder and then they'd be remotely stomachable.

Though at that point... why even do so at all? They're not so intrinsically connected to the TMNT outside of nostalgia for the children's cartoon spinoff stuff. They didn't even appear in any films until the last one, which was a failure.
Yeah, that's a point. But don't forget, that the cartoon is to a lot of people the definitve version of the Turtles (certainly I'm not happy with that, but that's a fact). And they were prominent characters there. So they are and remain deeply connected to the franchise.

Let's say so: what is it, that is "intrinsically connected to the TMNT"? Only the four turtles and maybe Splinter. Everything else could be thrown out and be reinvented (just think on the Mirage out of canon issues). That wouldn't make you happy either...

My problem is not what is already there, but how it is used. And if it is used well, I'm happy with it.
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