Why was Rise cancelled?

Mugic · 09-18-2020, 09:37 PM

I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise?

*Coola Yagami* · 09-18-2020, 09:53 PM

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.

*Andrew NDB* · 09-18-2020, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.

Yeah, that right there. If it was selling it would still be on shelves.

*IndigoErth* · 09-18-2020, 10:35 PM

Agree.

I can understand people who liked it wanting it back, but when they're watching it on Nick for free...why is Nick going to invest time and money into a show that isn't pulling a big enough audience and profiting enough to be worth it to keep it going.

Now, to be fair, they weren't exactly giving people that much product to buy, and the Turtle figures in particular were not that great looking and didn't translate well to real life toys. (Some of the non-Turtles were better, but too scarce?) That said, well, I guess Rise fans should have gone crazy cat lady mode and bought irrational quantities of it to support it and make them think it was popular. But that sounds a little unreasonable.

The last Rise products I saw, and beyond the end of the toy line, was some kid gift set for probably Valentine's Day (or Easter?) and they weren't exactly flying off the shelf. I still see Rise gift bags in Dollar Tree currently (at the one I visit for my job every week) and they aren't exactly selling fast either.

But hey, if any Rise fans what any remaining memorabilia, check the gift bags. And if not for a gift, well... I dunno, cut out and frame a side of it for art?

*Powder* · 09-18-2020, 10:37 PM

The toys were trash. Really, just awful. The articulation was easily Playmates' best, but the likenesses were God-awful. Especially for Raph & the Donnie which came packaged with a drone vehicle of sorts. Toys largely fund these cartoons, as I understand it, so their failure may be the most simple answer, sure. I saw a lot of guys who didn't like the show support the toy line, out of brand loyalty. I also saw many express that they'd have liked to, if only the toys didn't look so bad, bias against the actual episodes aside. Even 'haters' like to pepper their shelves with a new set of turtles, if only to sort of represent their evolution over time. I bought them despite my own criticisms, but largely on clearance, & out of desperation. They/we deserved better figures, for sure. At least concerning the turtles themselves, anyway. Others, like Meat Sweats & other baddies, were great!

Obviously, the series making dramatic changes in style, tone, & character turned off the majority of longtime fans (not me, I loved it, but I'm not blind to the fact). Those changes seemed to scare off the majority of companies who otherwise would have wanted to license these characters for the merch, too. Remember, 2012 had people saying Turtlemania was back. You couldn't go ANYWHERE without seeing tons of goods with CG renderings of those turtles on 'em. That's a lot of revenue to drum up, or in this case, not see. I saw Rise party favors & stickers, not much else. They made it impossible to support this iteration financially, honestly.

Nick also treated it very poorly. Odd scheduling, hiatuses, lackluster updates, shoving it into obscure time slots & ultimately the Nicktoons channel, etc.

*neatoman* · 09-18-2020, 10:58 PM

There could be any number of reasons:

Low toy sales (most likely)
Low TV ratings (second most likely)
Not enough people watching it digitally (wherever that was, if anywhere)
Too expensive (I'm willing to bet Aussies cost more than Koreans)
Not enough buzz on twitter (no, really, that's a thing these days)
Another pitched show (possibly TMNT related) was projected to have better chances

There's also the possibilty that Rise was never meant to last more than two or three seasons in the first place. There are thirteen Transformers cartoons (twenty-two if you count Japanese exclusives and online ****) and hardly any of them lasted more than seventy episodes, most don't even exceed fifty-two. So it is indeed possible that TMNT cartoons from now on may not last one hundred plus episodes.

*Andrew NDB* · 09-18-2020, 11:03 PM

Rise always struck me as a quick, temporary experiment to keep something TMNT out there while they work on the next "real" TMNT cartoon.

*IndigoErth* · 09-18-2020, 11:46 PM

Did anyone ever even see a t-shirt, at least a kid one, for this show? I saw them online, but never a single one in person.

Also, pulled out my wrestling Leo, one the few Rise figures I bought. Why did they give him a shirt that's basically wearing him? Compared to my 'in disguise' PD Leo (honestly a fav variant figure among recent incarnations), I just don't get it. Playmates clearly knows how to do a good sculpt of a Turtle in clothing, so why did they make the choice they did with the Rise figure, just putting a rubbery plastic "shirt" on over top of the figure? Was it a cheap shortcut to not bother with a new sculpt?

Tried to get a pic of these two. (Though too lazy at this hour to post it for reference.) Annoys me that the Rise figures don't even stand up well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neatoman

Not enough buzz on twitter (no, really, that's a thing these days)

I keep seeing people now claiming that it's popular on Twitter... but well, where was that popularity when it mattered, and it kind of needed to be popular on television, too, not just a minority of people online after the fact.

D-ray · 03-12-2021, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.

I don't get why they keep gambling with this kind of economical moves.
The turtles community changed, ALOT, but they keep doing things for kids, un-interested ones.

I still hope that Nick and Viacom give up the deed of the TMNT to a
wiser company.
I know that "kids" make you sell more stuff, because they have more free time, they are
willing to waste hundreds of dollars on playmates, but now is like trying to sell a plastic hammer to an ironmongery.

nintendo2600 · 10-05-2020, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mugic

I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise?

Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-05-2020, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nintendo2600

Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

Why would they apologize to a demographic not even remotely close to what they intended for the show? This was for 5 year-olds. If the 50 or so TMNT fans in their 30s or 40s want to tune in, they're not going to turn them away but they're also not going to listen to them.

*Leo656* · 10-05-2020, 02:00 AM

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the f*ck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right?

I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense.

*Andrew NDB* · 10-05-2020, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo656

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

The answer is that TMNT has "worked" to hook about 3 generations of kiddies just by virtue of the "basic formula." They aren't banking on or caring about any carry-over.

*Leo656* · 10-05-2020, 03:11 AM

I'd love to see the numbers that back up that supposition.

I think kids were *mildly* excited about the 2003 reboot, but got over it pretty quick. I've seen little to no evidence that anyone under 30 paid much attention to anything since.

Sure, a few people our age sat their kids down and "encouraged" them to watch the new Ninja Turtles gimmick every couple years... but how many of those kids stayed on, and how many of them immediately got bored after 5 minutes? That's my question.

They haven't created "new fans" in large numbers. They've periodically managed to hold a younger audience's attention briefly, before they go back to their other pursuits. But that's not at all the same thing. They haven't kept those younger fans on, AND they've pushed older fans away, a few more with each new version.

Only ONE audience of children ever watched any iteration of TMNT and subsequently stayed with it as lifelong fans: Our Generation. For us, it was more than a passing fancy and that's why we're still around.

How many millions of people who were 6 years old in 2003 still pay attention to the brand? In 2007? 2012? I'm not talking anecdotal "Well MY kid likes it" stuff. Obviously there are figurative handfuls of people. I mean, what's the Hard Data that proves that legions of "new fans" are ACTUALLY being created with every new version of TMNT?

If they're NOT actually creating passionate, lifelong fans with their increasingly bizarre and off-putting creative choices - and I have to believe they are not until proven otherwise - then I have no choice but to question their commitment to the "New Fans, Not Old Fans" business model.

It'd be a different story if their plans to create millions of fans out of thin air every three to five years actually worked. Toy sales, TV ratings, ticket sales and internet chatter, though, strongly suggests otherwise.

The people who cared in 1990 still care. That won't change. The kids who watched the first Season of "Rise" are already onto the next fad. The 2012 kids, too. Again, it's odd and frustrating to me that anyone would spend all of their time and resources catering to such a notoriously fickle demographic when there's a whole group of people Right Over Here who already want to give you their money as long as you don't try and insult their intelligence.

You can razzle-dazzle anybody out of their time and money One Time with a few fast words, but you can't make long-term profits that way. You have to actually create lifelong fans and keep them satisfied, or it's all for naught.

WWE is in the same boat. They've publicly said that they don't care about older fans because they fully believe that they can invent a whole new audience every 5 years. But that hasn't been the case and despite all the money they make from advertisers and action figures, wrestling is by far less popular right now than it's been in 40 years. Same problem as the TMNT brand: Older fans stop watching because they find the product insulting, and the kids don't stick around because they're fickle and easily bored.

Same thing. "We can lose people, it's fine; we'll just create a new audience." Doesn't work. Hasn't worked. Dangerous game. You can only run the same con so many times before people smarten up. You can't abuse your hardcore audience and expect to simply make up the difference on the back end. It's all very presumptuous and it always backfires eventually.

superstaff · 12-05-2020, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

Why would they apologize to a demographic not even remotely close to what they intended for the show? This was for 5 year-olds. If the 50 or so TMNT fans in their 30s or 40s want to tune in, they're not going to turn them away but they're also not going to listen to them.

Heh. The 5 year olds didn't seem to like this one much either.

*CyberCubed* · 12-05-2020, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superstaff

Heh. The 5 year olds didn't seem to like this one much either.

I think it's mainly because it aired at such weird times and then half the eps debuted on their website first or on Nicktoons that no kid could even keep up with the series.

superstaff · 12-05-2020, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I think it's mainly because it aired at such weird times and then half the eps debuted on their website first or on Nicktoons that no kid could even keep up with the series.

When I was a kid, I was able to keep up with shows that the networks would bounce around their schedule. But then again, I was a weird kid.

*The Fifth Turtle* · 12-17-2020, 05:00 AM

So, I haven’t been following Rise and this may be posted somewhere else but...how many seasons and episodes did this show conclude at? I’d like to try and watch them all. Thank you for your help!

*CyberCubed* · 12-17-2020, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Fifth Turtle

So, I haven’t been following Rise and this may be posted somewhere else but...how many seasons and episodes did this show conclude at? I’d like to try and watch them all. Thank you for your help!

It has 2 seasons total.

I used this guide for the episode list since most eps are only 11 minutes and have two different episodes in each 22 minute episode:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/...rtles_episodes

There's also a movie coming out next year that will take place after the series ended.

Ioz · 12-31-2020, 11:22 AM

Bad ratings and bad toy sales, which this show seemed to have both of, doomed it. It just didn't capture the imagination of both kids and old fans like the previous ones. They made too drastic of changes.

09-18-2020, 09:37 PM	#1
Mugic Thug Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Dimension X Posts: 96	Why was Rise cancelled? I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise? __________________

09-18-2020, 09:53 PM	#2
Coola Yagami Overlord Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 14,009	I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore. __________________ "I was down with TMNT once, but then they changed what TMNT was. Now what I was down with is no longer TMNT and what TMNT now is seems weird and scary. And it'll happen to YOU." Check out my blog for Comic Reviews and other things. https://markepicblogofrandomness.blogspot.com/ I also started The AEW Crew, the All Elite Wrestling Fan Club! https://www.facebook.com/groups/637508120044168/

09-18-2020, 10:37 PM	#5
Powder So tired of this place Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Shell Ri La Posts: 26,809	The toys were trash. Really, just awful. The articulation was easily Playmates' best, but the likenesses were God-awful. Especially for Raph & the Donnie which came packaged with a drone vehicle of sorts. Toys largely fund these cartoons, as I understand it, so their failure may be the most simple answer, sure. I saw a lot of guys who didn't like the show support the toy line, out of brand loyalty. I also saw many express that they'd have liked to, if only the toys didn't look so bad, bias against the actual episodes aside. Even 'haters' like to pepper their shelves with a new set of turtles, if only to sort of represent their evolution over time. I bought them despite my own criticisms, but largely on clearance, & out of desperation. They/we deserved better figures, for sure. At least concerning the turtles themselves, anyway. Others, like Meat Sweats & other baddies, were great! Obviously, the series making dramatic changes in style, tone, & character turned off the majority of longtime fans (not me, I loved it, but I'm not blind to the fact). Those changes seemed to scare off the majority of companies who otherwise would have wanted to license these characters for the merch, too. Remember, 2012 had people saying Turtlemania was back. You couldn't go ANYWHERE without seeing tons of goods with CG renderings of those turtles on 'em. That's a lot of revenue to drum up, or in this case, not see. I saw Rise party favors & stickers, not much else. They made it impossible to support this iteration financially, honestly. Nick also treated it very poorly. Odd scheduling, hiatuses, lackluster updates, shoving it into obscure time slots & ultimately the Nicktoons channel, etc. __________________ I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy

09-18-2020, 11:03 PM	#7
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 29,274	Rise always struck me as a quick, temporary experiment to keep something TMNT out there while they work on the next "real" TMNT cartoon. __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]

10-05-2020, 02:00 AM	#12
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question. Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the fck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right? I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know."* nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

09-18-2020, 10:35 PM	#4
IndigoErth Team Blue Boy Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: U.S., East Coast Posts: 15,242	Agree. I can understand people who liked it wanting it back, but when they're watching it on Nick for free...why is Nick going to invest time and money into a show that isn't pulling a big enough audience and profiting enough to be worth it to keep it going. Now, to be fair, they weren't exactly giving people that much product to buy, and the Turtle figures in particular were not that great looking and didn't translate well to real life toys. (Some of the non-Turtles were better, but too scarce?) That said, well, I guess Rise fans should have gone crazy cat lady mode and bought irrational quantities of it to support it and make them think it was popular. But that sounds a little unreasonable. The last Rise products I saw, and beyond the end of the toy line, was some kid gift set for probably Valentine's Day (or Easter?) and they weren't exactly flying off the shelf. I still see Rise gift bags in Dollar Tree currently (at the one I visit for my job every week) and they aren't exactly selling fast either. But hey, if any Rise fans what any remaining memorabilia, check the gift bags. And if not for a gift, well... I dunno, cut out and frame a side of it for art?

10-05-2020, 03:11 AM	#14
Leo656 The Franchise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,696	I'd love to see the numbers that back up that supposition. I think kids were mildly excited about the 2003 reboot, but got over it pretty quick. I've seen little to no evidence that anyone under 30 paid much attention to anything since. Sure, a few people our age sat their kids down and "encouraged" them to watch the new Ninja Turtles gimmick every couple years... but how many of those kids stayed on, and how many of them immediately got bored after 5 minutes? That's my question. They haven't created "new fans" in large numbers. They've periodically managed to hold a younger audience's attention briefly, before they go back to their other pursuits. But that's not at all the same thing. They haven't kept those younger fans on, AND they've pushed older fans away, a few more with each new version. Only ONE audience of children ever watched any iteration of TMNT and subsequently stayed with it as lifelong fans: Our Generation. For us, it was more than a passing fancy and that's why we're still around. How many millions of people who were 6 years old in 2003 still pay attention to the brand? In 2007? 2012? I'm not talking anecdotal "Well MY kid likes it" stuff. Obviously there are figurative handfuls of people. I mean, what's the Hard Data that proves that legions of "new fans" are ACTUALLY being created with every new version of TMNT? If they're NOT actually creating passionate, lifelong fans with their increasingly bizarre and off-putting creative choices - and I have to believe they are not until proven otherwise - then I have no choice but to question their commitment to the "New Fans, Not Old Fans" business model. It'd be a different story if their plans to create millions of fans out of thin air every three to five years actually worked. Toy sales, TV ratings, ticket sales and internet chatter, though, strongly suggests otherwise. The people who cared in 1990 still care. That won't change. The kids who watched the first Season of "Rise" are already onto the next fad. The 2012 kids, too. Again, it's odd and frustrating to me that anyone would spend all of their time and resources catering to such a notoriously fickle demographic when there's a whole group of people Right Over Here who already want to give you their money as long as you don't try and insult their intelligence. You can razzle-dazzle anybody out of their time and money One Time with a few fast words, but you can't make long-term profits that way. You have to actually create lifelong fans and keep them satisfied, or it's all for naught. WWE is in the same boat. They've publicly said that they don't care about older fans because they fully believe that they can invent a whole new audience every 5 years. But that hasn't been the case and despite all the money they make from advertisers and action figures, wrestling is by far less popular right now than it's been in 40 years. Same problem as the TMNT brand: Older fans stop watching because they find the product insulting, and the kids don't stick around because they're fickle and easily bored. Same thing. "We can lose people, it's fine; we'll just create a new audience." Doesn't work. Hasn't worked. Dangerous game. You can only run the same con so many times before people smarten up. You can't abuse your hardcore audience and expect to simply make up the difference on the back end. It's all very presumptuous and it always backfires eventually. __________________ "I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/

12-17-2020, 05:00 AM	#18
The Fifth Turtle Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Chicago sewer Posts: 2,488	So, I haven’t been following Rise and this may be posted somewhere else but...how many seasons and episodes did this show conclude at? I’d like to try and watch them all. Thank you for your help!

12-31-2020, 11:22 AM	#20
Ioz Foot Soldier Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 103	Bad ratings and bad toy sales, which this show seemed to have both of, doomed it. It just didn't capture the imagination of both kids and old fans like the previous ones. They made too drastic of changes.