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View Poll Results: Which series did you like most?
Next Mutation 11 28.21%
Platinum Dunes Movies 13 33.33%
Rise of the TMNT 9 23.08%
I liked all 3 or at least 2 of the 3 (specify) 6 15.38%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-25-2020, 02:56 PM   #21
neatoman
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I'm surprised that TNM is leading in the poll, especially by such a wide margin. Maybe the distance of it softens the view on it? Easier to forget what it was really like maybe?

Anyway, I watched all of it for the first time not too long ago. If you consider it the least offensive of the three, I don't really think it is. Maybe not rage inducing as OotS, but it is certainly insultingly unwatchable.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:15 PM   #22
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I’ll be shocked if there is ever an incarnation of TMNT that I hate more than Platinum Dunes.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:21 PM   #23
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I've never seen the Next Mutation.

When comparing Rise and Bayturtles though, Rise easily comes out on top. Its not even a close comparison, with Rise's 2D animation being much more pleasing to the eye than the hideous CGI of PD, the characters being much more likeable overall, and there being a much more endearing story in the end.

And being original doesn't automatically equal to being better, but Rise gets props for sticking to its original vision while the Bayturtles films pandered to other versions, even if it cost them in terms of quality (for e.g. the first film ditching its ridiculous alien concepts and becoming a dull/forgettable film in return, and Out of the Shadows heavily pandering to Fred Wolf nostalgia).
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The biggest villains were the censors.
What they could do without being held back is my question.
Shredder could've done more than blow up the Channel Six building.
I don't mean as far as murdering Splinter, but think of the possibilities if censors were not an issue.
Shredder and Krang combined had the biggest arsenal of any villains in all of the cartoons.
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Old 11-25-2020, 03:28 PM   #24
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The Platinum Dunes reboot might be trash and all, but atleast was kind of enjoyable and a little bit "consistent".
The next mutation is just weird and ugly, not even the funny weird of the movies. The fifth turtle (Venus) never made any sense to me.
I liked the idea of adding more things to the show, but how it was made didn't really went good for me.
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Old 11-25-2020, 04:51 PM   #25
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I'm surprised that TNM is leading in the poll, especially by such a wide margin. Maybe the distance of it softens the view on it? Easier to forget what it was really like maybe?.
Probably nostalgia. It aired in 1997 so a lot of us who watched it when it aired were kids/young teens.

I don't care for Next mutation, but the show would be 100% more watchable without the sound effects.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:00 PM   #26
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I never even saw it back then, was out of the TMNT loop at the time (and a fresh high school grad with my attention on other things), but I guess watching it as an adult a few or so years ago knowing it was already past history made the failings of it less offensive.

I guess Rise could have been similar had I watched it 10 years from now instead, rather than now and setting expectations too high hoping for something more than what it was and not the present incarnation.
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:47 PM   #27
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I can at least give TNM some leeway on account of the franchise was still fairly "new", in that there hadn't been a bunch of different versions of it yet, thus "they" didn't know just how far yet they could bend the premise without breaking it. What they could get away with before it got "too stupid", etc. etc. They found out - and frankly, should have already known - but something that bad was bound to happen eventually. It's inevitable with any franchise.

BayTurtles and Rise, however, were made in an era where people god damn should have known better than to try and push that kinda sh*t on people. So it's a lot less forgivable. Plus, TNM didn't make big waves when it was out and many people who identify as "TMNT Fans" don't even know it exists, and it's more of a forgotten camp relic than anything, like the Filmation Batman cartoon. "Not good, but mostly-harmless". Without the internet, nobody'd even remember or talk about it.

Whereas BayTurtles and Rise were pushed as a pretty big deal, and "thanks" to the internet even bad things have a much wider reach than ever before, so instead of being cast off and forgotten they stand to pollute the brand in some form or fashion for decades to come, whether it's through their awful character designs or terrible story choices or whatever else. It's like, nobody really wants anything from TNM to come back, BUT a few people of questionable taste will inevitably push for stuff from BayTurtles and Rise to stick around. NONE of it should be kept, but you already see a few people insisting on exceptions for ______.

So yeah, all three are bad but BayTurtles and Rise did far more damage, in my opinion, and they most likely will be doing damage for a long time to come. It's amazing to me how in the current era, every time I think I've seen the worst TMNT has to offer, someone just has to go and top themselves. I really wish they'd stop doing that.
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:16 PM   #28
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It's not really been confirmed but I do think that the reason 2K3 was so good was because, by the early 2000s, Laird was so disgusted by 1987 and Next Mutation that he took great care with the next project.
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #29
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I'm disgusted by all the FW crap we'll be getting forever. I love me some Rocksteady and Beebop but 2k3 feels so refreshing just because it doesn't have any of those FW mutants.
Laird took the "no references" to an extreme and we missed them, but we've been hit over the head with FW ever since Viacom got it, I miss the "Nothing from FW" years now.
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Old 11-28-2020, 05:53 PM   #30
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Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.
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Old 11-28-2020, 06:47 PM   #31
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Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.
Because, like FW, it's largely for very young children and adults who refuse to be... adults.
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:29 AM   #32
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Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.
That is true, there are no characters originating with the Fred Wolf cartoon or the toyline it was marketing. However, it is once again a show that prioritises goofy comedy, mutants that are whatever just because, a ton of characters clearly meant to build up a toyline, vehicles meant to market even more toys and pizza obsession. It may not carry on the characters or most of the core concepts, but much of the approach does carry over.
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Old 11-29-2020, 11:10 AM   #33
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Well we'll never have a new series without a ton of mutants. It's how it is. What I find interesting is each incarnation tries to make a new pair of major mutants (Nick originally with Dogpound/Fishface and then Tiger Claw, IDW with Koya and Bludgeon, and Rise with Meat Sweats, Hypno, etc), and then they just wind up falling back on classic characters again.
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Old 11-29-2020, 11:41 AM   #34
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Personally, maybe it’s that I never watched TNM, but having watched OOTS, I didn’t think it was terrible, and I fail to see how it’s extremely different in mood from the better selling 2nd Avengers movie (which I was peer pressured to watch in theaters). The designs of the turtles, especially Michelangelo, are valid concerns to me, but otherwise...

Then again, I did not watch the first Bay movie yet, which, apparently, has an even worse reception.
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:39 PM   #35
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Personally, maybe it’s that I never watched TNM, but having watched OOTS, I didn’t think it was terrible, and I fail to see how it’s extremely different in mood from the better selling 2nd Avengers movie (which I was peer pressured to watch in theaters). The designs of the turtles, especially Michelangelo, are valid concerns to me, but otherwise...

Then again, I did not watch the first Bay movie yet, which, apparently, has an even worse reception.
Personally it's difficult to really compare the two Bay movies as the first movie really suffers from how obvious it is that chopped and changed the movie was two or three times. Every scene with Tohoru Masamune feels very different to the rest of the movie, then you have two different purposes for the mutagen and then two different motivations for the villains. Add to that the usual Bay nonsense and learning ninjutsu from a book and it all adds up to terrible.

By comparison they are no real big plot holes with Out Of The Shadows. It all makes sense but it falls short of even being a good inoffensive popcorn-fest or a nostalgia trip. The action is pretty sub par and Shredder gets iced before he does anything and the frankly bizarre choice of having the Technodrome assemble slowly piece by piece only to disassemble straight away really hurts its main selling point of being the Fred Wolf show in live action.

They are both horrible in different ways.

I'm somewhat puzzled by the comparison to Avengers 2. If anything it tries to ape the first Avengers movie at least in my opinion. At least Age of Ultron had the theme of the dangers of technology, how our fears affect us, family (Hawkeye and his, Vision and Ultron, Bruce and Natasha not being able to have one). There's a good movie in there somewhere it just wasn't quite out together quite 'right'. OOTS doesn't attempt anything other than trying to sell toys.
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:56 PM   #36
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Personally it's difficult to really compare the two Bay movies as the first movie really suffers from how obvious it is that chopped and changed the movie was two or three times. Every scene with Tohoru Masamune feels very different to the rest of the movie, then you have two different purposes for the mutagen and then two different motivations for the villains. Add to that the usual Bay nonsense and learning ninjutsu from a book and it all adds up to terrible.
Yeah, I did hear that about the first Bay movie even while it was being made, which is one reason why I've been taking so long to watch it for myself already.

As for the comparison to Avengers, both it and OOTS seemed cheesy to me in their own ways. Beyond that statement, it seems we'll just have to agree to disagree there.
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Old 12-02-2020, 04:45 AM   #37
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I love Rise & The Next Mutation. Both have a lot of redeeming qualities & unique, original characters/plots.

PD is a steaming pile.
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Old 12-02-2020, 03:39 PM   #38
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I actually like Rise for what it is. It can put a smile on my face anyway.

I never gave the Next Mutation a chance to be honest. Venus and the costumes are just too much for me. Who knows, maybe some day. I'll probably at least watch one episode some time. It is on Netflix after all.

I didn't like the first PD movie. It wasn't unbearable but I've never had any urge to watch it a second time and I hate the designs. There's also the mess with Eric Sachs and the Shredder, learning ninjutsu from a book and April getting so much focus. I still have to watch the 2nd one. I saw one scene and Leo came across as a jerk in it so not a great incentive for me. I definitely will before the year ends though since it's on Amazon Prime.
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Old 12-07-2020, 08:37 PM   #39
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OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me.

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.
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Old 12-07-2020, 09:37 PM   #40
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Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.

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OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me.

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.
Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.
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