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Old 11-30-2023, 11:11 PM   #1
neatoman
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Mystique is now Nightcrawler's father.

The origin Claremont proposed but was rejected by Shooter is now a thing. (For now) Nightcrawler is no longer the son of Azazel and Mystique but rather Destiny and Mystique, who shape shifted into a man to make it happen. Also, the reason Nightcrawler looks like Azazel is because Mystique used her shape shifting powers to make it happen, and any references to her being pregnant herself is explained away as her also using her powers to fake it.

X-Men Blue Origins issue 4, in case you were wondering.
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:40 AM   #2
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Maybe in the context of the setting it makes sense, but outside of it looks like another retarded retcon a-la "Iceman is Gay"
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Old 12-01-2023, 02:19 AM   #3
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I often wonder how longtime readers can still enjoy a comic book series with these endless retcons. It‘s a serious question, are the retcons exciting to you or just annoying but you just bear with them?

I mean, I still remember back when I was huge Spider-Man fan, first Aunt May died (which was great!), Peter was replaced by ‚real‘ Peter aka Ben Reilly (which many people hated but I thought it was very exciting), then Peter came back and turned out to be the real Peter (I felt cheated) and Aunt May returned because the one who died was just a genetically altered actress hired by Norman Osborn. The latter retcon felt so insulting that I never picked up a Spider-Man book again.
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Old 12-01-2023, 02:45 AM   #4
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What pissed me off was, while it did indeed take a while, all of the character development that Doc Ock endured when he was the Superior Spider-Man is gone and he did eventually go right back to being a cackling super villain.
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Old 12-01-2023, 10:54 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Barkworm View Post
I often wonder how longtime readers can still enjoy a comic book series with these endless retcons. It‘s a serious question, are the retcons exciting to you or just annoying but you just bear with them?
Once in a blue moon is something. But since 10 years ago or so, there's been a lazy Geoff Johns-like trend of constantly smacking people with, "Everything you thought you knew about ____ is WRONG!!!"

As opposed to, y'know, just writing good, memorable stories that engage people.
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Old 12-01-2023, 10:59 AM   #6
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Stunning! Stunning annnddd bra..... ehhh yawwwnnnnnnn....
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Old 12-01-2023, 11:12 AM   #7
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Every comic expert right now:

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Old 12-01-2023, 11:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkworm View Post
I often wonder how longtime readers can still enjoy a comic book series with these endless retcons. It‘s a serious question, are the retcons exciting to you or just annoying but you just bear with them?

I mean, I still remember back when I was huge Spider-Man fan, first Aunt May died (which was great!), Peter was replaced by ‚real‘ Peter aka Ben Reilly (which many people hated but I thought it was very exciting), then Peter came back and turned out to be the real Peter (I felt cheated) and Aunt May returned because the one who died was just a genetically altered actress hired by Norman Osborn. The latter retcon felt so insulting that I never picked up a Spider-Man book again.
I recommend tracking down Spider-Girl, everyone knows it's the real continuation, and according to it's writer, the Aunt May that died was still the real one.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:27 PM   #9
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I'm impressed there's people still buying Marvel/DC comics at this point.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:38 PM   #10
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I'm impressed there's people still buying Marvel/DC comics at this point.
Right? I dipped out what must have been 7 years ago now because I hit a rough patch but boy, it seems like I did just at the right time.
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Old 12-01-2023, 12:40 PM   #11
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I'm impressed there's people still buying Marvel/DC comics at this point.
The Comixology omnibus sales on older collected issues are really tempting, I must confess.
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Old 12-01-2023, 01:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew NDB View Post
Once in a blue moon is something. But since 10 years ago or so, there's been a lazy Geoff Johns-like trend of constantly smacking people with, "Everything you thought you knew about ____ is WRONG!!!"

As opposed to, y'know, just writing good, memorable stories that engage people.
When it comes to Marvel comics, this must have been going on for even longer. I haven't bought any Marvel comics in at least 15 years but the horrible Spider-Man examples are from way before that. And the mid-90s were also full of that stuff, like the X-Men Onslaught crossover (which had its moments) and all the awful Heroes Reborn books.

Thanks to Zarius for mentioning Spider-Girl which I know of course. At the time I was a bit turned off by their use of Norman Jr who became Green Goblin III but it was cool to see a continuation that ignored the Aunt May retcon. Mayday even wore Ben Reilly's costume, didn't she?
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Old 12-01-2023, 04:11 PM   #13
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I'm impressed there's people still buying Marvel/DC comics at this point.
I think the state of the comic industry right now is disasterous - by a variety of evidences.

Industry pros ranging from respected Mark Millar to social-scum like Kellie Sue Deconnick has made the rounds about concern about the entire industry. You have huge resellers not even offering ratio variants anymore because their routine orders can't hit them (that is a tremendous sign). DCBS doesn't even offer the ratio variants anymore - instead they send out an email a month after the fact that confirms which ones they were able to get and you then go to order them. The point? Even huge national subscription services can't order in enough volume to guarantee a 1:25 variant. Consider all of that for a moment - a national reseller might not order 25-50 copies of a book to land a ratio variant.

Hell, Chuck Rosanzki, owner of Mile High Comics doesn't even mass order new comics anymore. He is even publicly saying what anyone with a brain has known for a long time now:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck's Mile High 11/08/23 Newsletter
In other news, I have been continuing to hear cries of distress from some of my fellow comics retailers, especially those who linked their futures heavily to the sale of new periodical comics. Simply put, new comics are not selling in sufficient quantities these days to allow many comics shops to cover their overhead, so even the most experienced and canny of my retailing friends are starting to feel the economic sting.
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Originally Posted by Chuck's Mile High 11/08/23 Newsletter
So how are we doing now? Pretty darn well. Our overall gross sales are down since abandoning new comics, but our operating margins are way up. Of even greater importance is that our newly-generated increase in margins comes without the horrible hidden cost in unsold product that is currently pandemic within the new comics world. To be clear, we are still selling several hundred thousand dollars per year in new comics, but only on a guaranteed sale basis, with very few speculative copies being purchased for our new comics racks.
And there is even more I could post in a "state of the comic industry" thread. Ultimately though, making Mystique Nightcrawler's father in the same vein as every weird "sexual/gender obfuscation" agenda that we've seen weirdos push for years now is only going to diminish the audience even more.

Said it before and I'll say it again - all of society's stupidity works on some form of a gaussian-style curve but when the bottom finally drops out it does instantly and very badly (hello Disney?). We are going to wake up one day and there will be more "suddenly overnight" style IDW-disaster announcements. Go woke go broke.
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Old 12-01-2023, 04:34 PM   #14
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I peeked at the issue in question (X-Men Blue Origins #1). It seems well written and all and I wasn't going to say much about it... but oops, there it is right after the reveal. Mystique in the present goes off on a big tirade on Nightcrawler about gender identity and so on in a manner you can probably imagine.

But still, this is really the best way to explore these kinds of issues. Like with Star Trek, classic Trek would explore racism by, say, encountering one planet refusing to trade with the race on a neighboring planet, then gets into the nuts and bolts of why and you can see both sides. Modern Trek, it'd just be, literally a black lady screaming about racism from one of the few white males even there on the ship at all. Better and more clever the former, of course.

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Old 12-02-2023, 12:30 PM   #15
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This origin story made more sense than the newest one:

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Old 12-03-2023, 10:23 AM   #16
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This origin story made more sense than the newest one:

And just point it out, they had already retconned the father from Baron Wagner to Azazel in 2003, meaning this most recent origin had to try to explain that away too. It's quite literally a retcon on top of a retcon.
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Old 12-03-2023, 11:55 AM   #17
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I can imagine some self-important "author" writing this issue in a yuppie coffee house somewhere and leaning back in an armchair with some kind of self-satisfied sense of personal masturbation after writing this issue and going on about retconn'd gender identity nonsense in a comic book.



Well done.

Meanwhile places like Mile High comics are relying on back issue sales 100% to keep the lights on and pay the tax bills.
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