02-14-2018, 09:00 PM | #41 | ||
Stone Warrior
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02-14-2018, 11:56 PM | #42 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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That's at least a sentiment that, while I don't agree with, I can relate to. What I don't understand is how all of these obviously well read fanboys can so easily ignore the history of the medium.
To actually believe the thesis that Comics are only now espousing a political viewpoint, is to ignore the very history of superhero comics itself. Captain America punching Hitler. Heck, even Raphael punched Hitler. The very existence of the X-Men themselves. I get the frustration, because I feel it too, but I disagree on what the problem is. We have too many people making editorial decisions based on profit margins and not on storytelling. Exec's want more bang for their Buck coming out of the gate, and they're not willing or patient enough for a Slow Burn. It's like Fox cancelling show after show because they don't manage to capture the lightning-in-a-bottle The X-Files did in the first five episodes.
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02-15-2018, 12:22 AM | #43 | |
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This is the same reason why some people don't see OT Star Wars trilogy as political, despite it being commentary about Vietnam War. Because, who gives a **** about Vietnam War nowadays? No-one. It's just "something that had happened long time ago from history books". So naturally, for people who never lived through this time, relevancy of the commentary is lost. Because, it's hard to put yourself on the place and time of the past. Current Status Quo is the only thing people know right now and it's hard to see how it was several decades ago. |
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02-15-2018, 12:41 AM | #44 |
Y'all need Jesus
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Is punching Hitler really a political thing, though? Like, political statements can be disagreed with. Who doesn't think Hitler should be punched in the face?
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02-15-2018, 12:49 AM | #45 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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In America today?
A lot more people than I'm strictly comfortable with. I realize that being from the tail end of Generation X that maybe my experiences aren't quite as common place as the rest of my online cohort, however my parents were alive and drafted for the Vietnam War. I have family members still suffering the effects of post-traumatic stress from the Vietnam War. If the people behind ComicDorf are ignoring tangible aspects of history, that at most they would only have to ask their parents or grandparents about and for some inexplicable reason haven't done that, then why is anyone entertaining anything they have to say in the first place?
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02-15-2018, 01:05 AM | #46 | ||
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When most people think of Hitler, they don't think of him as "real person", or rather they don't comprehend him as a "real person", they think of him in vein of a comic book villain. And because of that when Hitler is involved, it's less about some issues and more about using some evil dude from the past. Message is lost due to mythologization. Or rather "memezation". Quote:
And I don't think a lot of them will ask about this stuff, because, of that reason. Last edited by Sumac; 02-15-2018 at 01:10 AM. |
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02-15-2018, 05:26 AM | #47 |
Dub Professor
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(sorry, I couldn't resist) But for real, I agree. Lessons learned by society get lost in the annals of history, and even in their heyday they don't reach every group of people. People can live in the same place at the same time and be in two totally different worlds
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02-15-2018, 08:07 AM | #48 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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Okay, let's assume that this is all the case, what's the best course of action to reach these Hit List building kids?
Because my knee-jerk reaction is to ignore them, but given that I live in Boston, the birthplace of GamerDorf, I know first-hand that ignoring them leads to future threats of harm and violence.
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02-15-2018, 11:08 AM | #49 | |
See You Next Mission
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Would there be a hit list of creators if they didn't engage these people the way they do?
I guess Waid attempted to have this "Diversity & Comics" guy banned from a con? Some butthurt creators have reduced themselves to the level of the worst trolls, and that's what's kept the conflict alive. They weren't hired to virtue signal on Twitter and Facebook; they were hired to write and draw comics.
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02-15-2018, 11:23 AM | #50 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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Yes, I think there would be.
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02-15-2018, 03:41 PM | #51 | ||
Stone Warrior
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Worth noting threats, death or otherwise, have increased a lot, especially these days with the influx of minority talent, so if you're wondering why comic personalities are getting more combative, there you go.
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http://www.newsweek.com/nazi-video-g...-slogan-679530 https://www.forbes.com/sites/curtiss.../#189d72f02554 Great game, by the way. I really appreciate it for taking a hard look at the past and America at the time and how a good portion of the country might have reacted if we'd lost, even if it's dressed with crazy Nazi mechs and airships. It got a little more real than I expected and had something to say. Quote:
So, you know, now having that context, f*** 'em.
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02-15-2018, 07:29 PM | #52 | |
Spooky ghost
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I could put forward a case as to why I disagree with a comic book character punching Hitler, but it wouldn't really be a political thing so much as a question of good taste. Hitler and his cronies caused so much pain and suffering that including him in a cheese-ball superhero comic feels a bit crass to me. It's also a tiny bit pathetic. It's easy to write 'invulnerable muscle-man punches Hitler', while you’re sitting in a plush chair, drinking coffee, and listening to Spotify. In reality, Hitler jaw was beyond the reach of the average person, and posturing as though you would totally knock him out is a little bit disrespectful to the people who died trying, and the people who died and suffered because they were powerless to do anything. We are powerless to do anything. Hitler died before we were born – we cannot effect the outcome, and dreaming about doing so is just an impotent, self-aggrandising power fantasy. You could also argue that it is very important to remember history as it actually happened – especially catastrophic events like the world wars. That old line about “Those who do not read history are doomed to repeat it” is pertinent here. The problem is that once we start fictionalising history, the facts and the fantasy start to blur together. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from WWII; about failures of politics, economics, communication… and it’s very complex. Nobody’s going to learn anything reducing it down to ‘an evil guy and his minions tried to take over the world and we kicked their asses! Oh and buy the way I heard that he had supernatural powers and invented UFOs!!!’
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02-17-2018, 12:14 PM | #53 | ||
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...And it's no wonder why older generations mock and criticize the sensitivity, shallowness, and arrogance of younger generations, when the first 2/3s the 20th century experienced unprecedented enormous political, social, and economic instability and change, with Laissez-faire industrialization (no workers' rights or safety protocols) and monopolization of the Gilded Age, World War 1, the Russian Revolution/Civil War, The Dust Bowl, The Great Depression, the rise of Nazi Germany in the 1930s, World War 2, the Chinese Civil War, the Communist regimes of the USSR (i.e with Stalin in the Great Purge) and of China (i.e. the Cultural Revolution in China), and the Cold War era. That period experienced hundreds of millions of casualties, and a cumulative magnitude of suffering (individual and societal) that is inconceivable for generations of today. |
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02-17-2018, 12:28 PM | #54 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
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I think Hitler has only become a boogey man of some long forgotten age for people who weren't really directly affected by his regime.
But I don't think it's wrong to say that the average American doesn't share that cultural memory, which is pretty much how similar levels of authoritarianism and cultural supremacy have been allowed to once again take root.
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02-17-2018, 12:43 PM | #55 |
The Agenda of Existing
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This is why in Norway 9th graders goes on school trips to Poland to visit Auschwitz. And in my home city we've kept a building named the Archives intact and restored to how it looked during the occupation, it's a building the Secret Police used to imprison and torture people.
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02-18-2018, 04:53 PM | #56 | |||
Stone Warrior
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Anyway, this article is pretty relevant to the Comicsgate debacle.
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02-18-2018, 06:21 PM | #57 | ||
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Aside from Jews and Germans, for whom it's more personal than for anyone else, of course. Even Russians think of WW2 more in line of some fantasy tale, which not in the least helped by modern Putin's propaganda. Quote:
Another Lefty bulldang and fear-mongering. Some people are lacking perspective so much... If you want real authoritarianism, go to North Korea. Or even Russia. In general, this talk about "American authoritarianism" seems like a fear-mongering and overreaction of fragile lefties, because, in America someone dare to have different opinion from you. Which, ironically enough, makes you authoritarian, not a country. Last edited by Sumac; 02-18-2018 at 06:32 PM. |
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04-02-2018, 11:36 AM | #58 |
Stone Warrior
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In-depth article on Comicsgate: https://amp.thedailybeast.com/comicsgate-how-an-anti-diversity-harassment-campaign-in-comics-got-uglyand-profitable
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04-02-2018, 11:28 PM | #59 |
Spooky ghost
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Interesting, but I'd suggest some alternative titles...
I confess that I have no skin in this game, so perhaps from the perspective of a comic book fan it is an important discussion and I'm being flippant. Sorry if that's the case, but this whole thing just seems like bull bating to me. Publishers thought they could resuscitate a dying industry by causing controversy, and new media opportunists found a way to needle the mob and exploit it for a quick buck. I find it difficult to believe that any of these parties actually believe in what they're selling.
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04-02-2018, 11:50 PM | #60 | |
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