05-20-2018, 01:17 AM | #41 | |
The Franchise
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,694
|
Quote:
And a lot of THAT had a ton to do with Guliani's crackdown on gang violence and street crime, along with a parallel increase in Stop-And-Frisk, which is both a highly controversial but highly effective deterrent. Controversial because it disproportionately targets minorities, but effective because A. A huge number of people who were frisked in NYC for "being shady" turned out to be carrying - often ILLEGALLY carrying - regardless of why they were stopped, and furthermore often turned out to be violent career criminals on top of that, and B. People who would be highly likely to get frisked under those circumstances - i.e., gang members and drug dealers - either made it a point to not carry or simply did "business" elsewhere, and in either case they and their guns would no longer become a NYC-related statistic. Point being, stories can be complicated. See, here's another "problem" we have as people: Policies like "Stop-and-Frisk" do INFINITELY more tangible, measurable good to lower gun violence, and get illegal guns off of the streets and out of the hands of criminals and lunatics, than "Gun Control" in the generally spoken sense does. One involves Action, the other involves Words. Problem is, it's kind of inherently racist as a policy. BUT, it works, which is more than can be said about marches, protests, or Congressional chest-thumping. So what to do? Ignore a proven-effective method for combating crime and lowering gun violence, because it's "mean" or "inconvenient" to certain groups of people? Lots of people say Yes, but I personally think this is a case where the ends would totally justify the means. Because again, a LOT of those stop-and-frisk types may have been stopped "mostly" for being a minority, but ALSO turned out to be dangerous, violent criminals who would otherwise have slipped through the cracks. Shouldn't we just be grateful someone caught them before they hurt anyone else? Should be cut-n'-dry, but it's not. This sh*t's crazy complicated. People will point to a place like NYC and say, "Look, it used to be a sh*thole, they cleaned it up a bit." Yeah, but ONLY by doing things that a lot of people have ethical objections to, even though the end result is much better for everyone. It's not like all the gangs and drug dealers just got jobs at the YMCA or something. The city only got "cleaned up" because the NYPD more or less started treating it like a war zone, with black people as "enemy combatants" until proven otherwise. Personally, I acknowledge the racial bias inherent in the policies, but can't argue that the end result was a safer NYC environment for everyone, which should ultimately count for more, if we're seriously keeping score. Were they right? Wrong? Right on points, but Wrong on principle? Depends what you grade on. This is why these conversations are complicated. You can say, "Well, if people have to own a gun, they should have to be screened, be trained, pass a test, and keep their guns under lock and key," and mostly everyone agrees because that's all pretty good. But if you say, "Well, just make Stop-And-Frisk a nationwide policy, it's statistically proven effective," that's a whole other can of worms, because now you have people questioning if "safety" is worth the hardship, prejudice, inconvenience, sacrifice, and hurt feelings that other groups of people would endure for the end result. Any place where things are "better", somebody had to eat sh*t to get everyone else to that point. It's unavoidable. And nobody wants to be the group that gets sh*t on, discriminated against, forced to relocate, or give up their Constitutionally-protected rights, just so things get better for Everyone Else. Which is totally understandable. Again, it's a complicated conversation. And it's all conversation worth having, if we're ever going to see anything get better. But the "Guns are bad, just make 'em go away and everything else gets better" thing is fairy-tale horse sh*t. You can't, and it won't, so people need to shift gears to another angle, it's as simple as that.
__________________
"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/ |
|
05-20-2018, 07:39 AM | #42 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,926
|
That's a correlation you're turning into a causation there.
But I have to admit, it's one I would be curious to explore when it comes to school/mass shootings. The perpetrators of those are predominantly young white men. I still think done [strike]Phantom[/strike] fandom should step in and do something, but maybe the white male Community should Step Up as well
__________________
------------------------------------------------------ Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by plastroncafe; 05-20-2018 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Thanks a heap, autocorrect. |
||
05-20-2018, 09:02 AM | #43 | |
Devil's Advocate
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,121
|
Quote:
__________________
Thanks evan2000 for the sig! |
|
05-20-2018, 12:59 PM | #44 | |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,828
|
Quote:
Last edited by PApagreg; 05-20-2018 at 01:10 PM. |
|
05-20-2018, 02:54 PM | #45 |
Team Blue Boy
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: U.S., East Coast
Posts: 15,170
|
So supposedly one of the first people he killed was a girl he'd pursued for four months and wasn't interested in dating him. Much like that other recent incident.
Why isn't this being addressed more. Had CNN on this morning and forget what anchor it was but he TRIED to bring up this topic to address it, but of course one of the guests on the show (a women no less) said nothing of it and jumped right back to talking about congress. Come on! Yes, guns need to be discussed, but there is this other aspect that is far too common in many of these incidences. |
05-20-2018, 03:55 PM | #46 |
I Married a Duck!
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The bowels of Hell, Texas(otherwise known as Decatur)
Posts: 8,772
|
You mean entitlement? Or "nice guy" syndrome? Or lack of being able to accept disappointment/rejection? Yeah, that needs to be addressed with these creeps.
__________________
"You IDIOTS! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -from "Spaceballs" "Where Science ends, magic begins." -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491 My various stories and fan-fics are now here- https://m.fanfiction.net/u/4770494/#end |
05-20-2018, 04:24 PM | #47 | ||
PerfectlyTunedFightEngine
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Upsidedown
Posts: 7,926
|
That would be very nice, yes.
A lot of the people who do this kind of thing have a history of domestic violence.
__________________
------------------------------------------------------ Quote:
Quote:
|
||
05-20-2018, 04:33 PM | #48 |
Team Blue Boy
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: U.S., East Coast
Posts: 15,170
|
Yeah, all of the above.
Egos as weak as wet toilet paper, entitlement, no sense of responsibility for one's own feelings or actions, taking it out on a woman... That's the kind of crap that goes on in parts of the Middle East that as a culture we're really so convinced that we're better and more civil than, and yet there's a lot of similarities. |
05-20-2018, 04:55 PM | #49 |
The Franchise
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,694
|
The main two things I keep hearing about this one are, he was practically stalking some girl for weeks and she finally embarrassed him in class to make him stop, and also, that the football players and coaches picked on him all the time.
So again... why are these kids nowadays so f*cking brittle that some of the most common and benign disappointments life will ever throw their way put them right into a "Kill Everyone" mindset? Yeah, that's rational. It's almost like they have no idea how to cope with things not going their way. This is what happens when you lie to kids and tell them every feeling they ever have is "valid" and they'll get everything they ever want as long as they "just keep trying" (which in their minds will read, "Stalk and harass a girl until she gives in," for example). Maybe we ought'a start toughening 'em up way earlier in life by telling them the truth: MOST things in life aren't going to go your way, you CAN'T get everything you want in life, MOST things are beyond your control, MOST of your dreams won't come true, MOST people aren't going to like you, NO, they don't need a reason, NO, you won't change their minds, and YES, you're going to be judged more for your looks, money, and social status than anything you ever do as a human being. If being a "Good Person" or making a "Contribution to Society" meant anything at all, doctors would make more money than football players, but they don't and never will. ALL LIFE is about "Injustice", disappointment, and how you react to it defines who you are as a person. The measure of a human being is not how they act in victory, but in defeat. And so on. All of that was made perfectly clear to me before like, Age 5. Yes, I grew up cynical, bitter, and kinda mean, BUT I also became so familiar with disappointment that I've come to expect it, and thus am far better emotionally-prepared to react to it. It's almost better to just expect things to go wrong, and be pleasantly surprised when they go right, than to expect everything to go your way and be completely unprepared to handle it when it doesn't. I mean, you don't have to be mean about it, just be honest with kids. Maybe if they grow up NOT expecting to get everything they want and ask for, they won't start shooting people when they don't get it. Seems like a way to go. It certainly hasn't been tried in a long time.
__________________
"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/ |
05-20-2018, 05:15 PM | #50 |
Resident overthinker
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: what is going on..........
Posts: 5,318
|
I think there's also the issue of not having a lot of emotional maturity - or empathy - for that matter. This brat happened to have the terrible combination of not only having no strength for not getting what he wanted, but also no ability to understand the way his victim was feeling. No understanding that she was starting to be afraid of him.
It's not just that he was brittle - and he absolutely is. There's also the factor that he can't put himself in his victim's shoes or muscle up the will to think "Oh sh*t, I am making this girl terrified of me, I should back off". That is what makes a good person. Though, a "good person" wouldn't be a stalker to begin with. He's selfish and he's insensitive. The deadliest combination there is.
__________________
|
05-20-2018, 05:26 PM | #51 |
*The King of Nothing*
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: No comment -_- ...
Posts: 2,755
|
Although entitlement and sexism are important factors that should be heavily considered, I think racism somehow also played a role.
Racism still exists today, and it would be absolutely ignorant to deny that fact. Last edited by Papenbrook; 05-20-2018 at 05:36 PM. |
05-20-2018, 08:08 PM | #52 | |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,828
|
Quote:
|
|
05-20-2018, 08:10 PM | #53 |
Foot Elite
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: WA
Posts: 2,507
|
So I guess a sexist, racist, entitled person with a mental illness committed this crime. Sad. His parents done screwed up big time. I wonder what the point was that set him on this path? I doubt his mom looked into his little baby eyes and could have predicted a future like this.
|
05-20-2018, 08:25 PM | #54 |
So tired of this place
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 26,801
|
There has been nothing to come out suggesting the shooter was racist.
__________________
I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy
|
05-20-2018, 09:10 PM | #55 | ||
The Franchise
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: nWo Country
Posts: 27,694
|
Quote:
And of course mass shootings and other killings don't JUST happen at schools... only MOSTLY. That means it's predominantly a Young Male problem. As in, "Young Males of the current generation can't handle not getting their way, and respond by hurting people." That's a common denominator, if nothing else. People have always had a hard time coping with disappointment, yeah, but in past generations, "disappointment" meant getting drafted into a war right out of high school and coming home missing a body part. And most of THOSE people still went on to live healthy and productive lives, PTSD and all. Mass shootings ANYWHERE have never been as rampant, even when it was far EASIER for angry people to get guns than it is today. It's almost like people's values changed since then! "The girl I liked won't talk to me, and the football coach said I smell. Better get a gun and shoot them all dead!" is a f*cking brand new idea. Less than 20 years old. Disprove it. Kids nowadays, for some reason, think this kind of response to "disappointment" is appropriate. Or else it's cutting/self-mutilation, or whatever. All of this is relatively new, and it's being taught to them somehow. For hundreds of years, people didn't act this way, and now they do. WHY? That's what I want to know. I have my own theories, and I'm PRETTY sure they're right, but most people don't even seem to care about any of that, they just want to talk about guns, the least-important link in the entire chain. I don't care about guns. I care about why we're raising a generation of maladjusted pussies who think mass-murder "fixes" people teasing you. That's the Real Problem. Their brains are broken, we need to raise them differently. Or stop having them altogether. I'm fine with that idea as well; we're obviously regressing as a species, in spite of all this technology. Hmmm... could it be that all this technology that isolates and dehumanizes us could ALSO be a factor in the current state of things? Hmmmm.... Yes. It is. If things are going to improve, people need to focus on what's actually going on and stop trying to change the subject. ------------------------------------ Quote:
On the other hand, he apparently shot at people with no racial bias at all, aiming only for people he disliked regardless of race. So it would seem that the shooter was indeed a racist, BUT, the shooting itself was not particularly racially motivated. That's how it looks, anyway. It's worth paying attention to, at least, because it means that if he didn't do what he did, he was only a few years away from carrying out a racially-motivated shooting on behalf of some white-supremacist group, anyway. That's almost a certainty, given what we know. Kid was cracked, and he was going to explode over someone, for some reason, it was only a matter of time. Someone should'a f*cking done something long before now. Where were his parents, teachers, guidance counselors, or... anyone? Texas governor says, "No warning signs", kids who knew him say differently. Evidence such as what was on the kid's Facebook page supports the latter. What a mess.
__________________
"I left some words quite far from here to be a short reminder... I laid them out in stone, in case they need to last forever..." "But hey... I'm not telling you anything that you don't already know." nWo Tech: The Official Thread Poison of the Technodrome Forums https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxr...awnHgDz1ceDcfA https://theroxxshow.blogspot.com/ Last edited by Leo656; 05-20-2018 at 09:15 PM. |
||
05-20-2018, 09:20 PM | #56 |
Dub Professor
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Dub Side of the Moon
Posts: 3,439
|
__________________
|
05-20-2018, 09:26 PM | #57 |
So tired of this place
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Shell Ri La
Posts: 26,801
|
He also wore communist & bisexual pride pins, peace signs, etc. None of it gels. He was just an edgelord using any symbology he could to ruffle feathers.
__________________
I'm convinced that none of you have ever experienced joy
|
05-20-2018, 10:09 PM | #58 | |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,828
|
Quote:
|
|
05-20-2018, 10:10 PM | #59 | |
Technodrome Technician
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: third earth
Posts: 4,737
|
Quote:
Its common sense.
__________________
GT:Reedeamer THE TECHNODROME REDESIGN 2015 http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=51594 |
|
05-20-2018, 10:18 PM | #60 |
Mad Scientist
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,828
|
No its bad example on your part because New York has strict gun laws so unless you support more strcter gun laws I doubt you want to use New York as an example. Also again its just a 2 month period and if you look at it year by year London tends to have less murders than New York so lets wait until 2018 ends before we start comparing cities
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|