New CGI movie

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

Maybe its not good to you. But its good for me. Because i get to see more fantastical looking characters appear in this comic.

Originally Posted by 80gmrp

I mean, both of you are right in a general sense. Neatoman is right that change isn?t always a good thing, but then again, TigerClaw is also right that what?s good, in most cases, is subjective.

My personal view about the issue at hand: while I do like the idea of more mutants in moderation, I don?t want to be overwhelmed by so many characters that it?s hard to follow any favorites I do have, which I do feel is one of IDW?s flaws. Again, though, my opinion is subjective, meaning, while some people do share that concern with me, others either don?t feel it as strongly or outright disagree.

The thing is that you can still argue about excecution and potential, even if there is a level of subjectivity involved.

Now my argument is that Mutant Town will become stale if it sticks around longer than it needs to, which I'd say is longer than it takes to give a simple introduction to the mutants they want around. The reason it would go stale is the fact that it is a quarantine zone, a setting of inherently little action and areas to explore. Given that there are settings established that offer far more potential than character introduction, this also means Mutant Town is drawing attention away from potential stories that are... Actual stories, not just hanging out at a bar or something.

Now TigerClaw's arguments are that he likes the fantastical nature of Mutant Town and that he likes looking at non-human characters. Now the problem with these arguments are:

1. We are talking about a comic featuring heaven, hell, realms of gods, alien worlds, time travel and various other fantastical settings in the first place. Mutant Town effectively just takes what we've seen before (humanoid animals, the least creative non-human characters we have) and gives them a new package. That package being a slum quarantine zone, a setting that is by definition a small rundown and blocked off area. It's by far one of the settings in the series with the least amount of potential. If you want more fantastical settings, don't argue in favor of the quarantine zone, argue for a Dimension X spin-off or a Renet Spin-Off, something that offers you more than broken buildings.
2. Even if you do in fact enjoy looking at characters who are not human beings, they still have to be good characters or you'll get sick of them. And again, they're stuck in a quarantine zone so there isn't much wiggle room for actual stories here. If all you really want to read a comic about mostly anthro characters that does not shoot it's own setting in the foot, read something like Usagi, there's plenty of comics in that genre.
3. As we have established, this series also features aliens, robots and gods. Now if your argument is that non-human characters are just more interesting to look at, why would we honestly need more humanoid animals when the actual possibilities are far less limited? If you can have a scalie thing from outer space with six arms, four robotic eyes, a furry tail, leathery wings and three mouths, are you really going to argue a humanoid pig is that interesting to look at?

Saying that something is subjective (even when it's true )is not a defense and an opinion you can't defend is one that you ought to think more strongly about.

[TigerClaw]

I like when TMNT gets into the more scifi territories. I'm bored with the grounded stuff. Its no longer interesting any more. I seen way too much of that that I want to move on to the other parts of TMNT that are more fantastical.

I would like to see IDW do there take on the Future Shark Trilogy from the Archie Comics. Would love to see the Turtles teaming up with there future adult selves for some adventure set in the future.

[80gmrp]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Saying that something is subjective (even when it's true )is not a defense and an opinion you can't defend is one that you ought to think more strongly about.

All opinions are subjective, and I never said I disagreed with your opinion: on the contrary, I do agree with your just-expressed three counterarguments to various degrees, as well as it needing to have a real story (that much I'm 100% behind you on).

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I like when TMNT gets into the more scifi territories. I'm bored with the grounded stuff. Its no longer interesting any more. I seen way too much of that that I want to move on to the other parts of TMNT that are more fantastical.

This I agree with as well, but then, I always had a small thing for science fiction in general.

[PizzaPower1985]

Can we get back on topic here?

[PizzaPower1985]

Can we get back on topic here?

I have a Q:
What would anybody say to this idea...

The CGI movie gets the Turtle Prime Turtles Forever treatment?

A completely B&W movie with Eastman and Laird designed city and buildings and TMNT and characters designed like the first dozen issues?

[TigerClaw]

I would like for this movie to borrow from FW and from IDW.

What if they borrow the origin from the IDW comics in which the Turtles were reincarnated? That's different enough of an origin in some ways that they were once humans from another life. Including Splinter. They still mutated from the Ooze the same way. But there mutation resulted in memories that manifest itself from a previous life.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I would like for this movie to borrow from FW and from IDW.

What if they borrow the origin from the IDW comics in which the Turtles were reincarnated? That's different enough of an origin in some ways that they were once humans from another life. Including Splinter. They still mutated from the Ooze the same way. But there mutation resulted in memories that manifest itself from a previous life.

I would adore that BUT then the narrative would have to heavily involve their former lives in Feudal Japan to justify it, no?

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I would adore that BUT then the narrative would have to heavily involve their former lives in Feudal Japan to justify it, no?

That can be done with a series of flashbacks.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I would like for this movie to borrow from FW and from IDW.

What if they borrow the origin from the IDW comics in which the Turtles were reincarnated? That's different enough of an origin in some ways that they were once humans from another life. Including Splinter. They still mutated from the Ooze the same way. But there mutation resulted in memories that manifest itself from a previous life.

Yeah...that's not going to happen

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I would like for this movie to borrow from FW and from IDW.

What if they borrow the origin from the IDW comics in which the Turtles were reincarnated? That's different enough of an origin in some ways that they were once humans from another life. Including Splinter. They still mutated from the Ooze the same way. But there mutation resulted in memories that manifest itself from a previous life.

FW has been "borrowed from" more than enough, enough for a lifetime. For ten lifetimes.

Yes, a movie can borrow IDW's reincarnation angle as long as they promise that is the only thing they take from it.

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

IDW has just never figured out how to make the TMNT shine in their own book while also balancing a giant number of characters. Admittedly it's a damn near impossible feat. To balance that kind of writing... to write a decent story like that... takes a masterful skill that no comic book writer has ever had.

Kieth f*cking Giffen says "Howdy", brah. How'd you miss that one?
C'mon, man... it wasn't MY favorite run of "Justice League", but seriously... tell me a TMNT book written by Giffen wouldn't work better than Extenze. That'd be awesome.

But yeah, it's tough. A few guys could do it, though. That's the first one that came to mind.

Originally Posted by PizzaPower1985

I see Neatoman is being his usual self.

He's generally pretty f*ckin' neato.

Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy

Everyone here thinking Jennika will ever go back to being human isn't considering the base politics of the issue and public reception.

C'mon, guys. This is 2020. C'mon.

When you're right, you're right. Just like April's gonna be black in at least the next three movies/TV shows/misc. Same thing.

Originally Posted by TigerClaw

I'm no furry or anything. But I often find human characters boring to look at. Beings that look animalistic and so on look way more interesting and cooler to me then your average looking human.

See, here's my problem: I 100% don't believe you. I've paid attention to your posts on various topics for years and years and years. If you're NOT a furry then you do a great impression of one. And I'll lead in by saying, furries absolutely don't bother me at all. So don't think I'm insulting you, because I'm not. Not even a little. Just observing the evidence.

BUT, just like the message board "shippers" who ruin perfectly good TV shows and other entertainment by projecting what THEY want to see over what would actually be good for the story, furries have a habit of doing the same thing. "Oh, great, more things I can wank to! That's awesome, that's ALL I want and care about!" And those things are usually bad for the characters and story at large. Then perfectly good shows or comics or whatever else get "hijacked", because the shippers/furries make themselves so overwhelmingly vocal that the pen-holders have no choice but to cater to them, and everyone else just gets annoyed because they KNOW that what's being done is NOT what's best for the story or the characters at large.

I personally would have a LOT more respect for you as a poster and a person if you'd just say, "Okay, I'm a furry, I want more furry bait in everything, because it tickles me." That would at least be honest. I respect honesty even if I don't agree with the position a person takes, if they're sincere I can respect it. Instead, you repeatedly advocate for objectively bad ideas, and when people explain why they're terrible, you just keep bleating, "Well, it's what *I* want." We hear you. At some point it might be time to accept that Most TMNT Fans don't agree with you and stop trying to Square Peg/Round Hole everything.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong, and again, I mean no insult in my observation. Just saying, some of my best friends are furries and I thus can generally spot 'em. If you're not, then you do a fantastic impression. And I know why you might not want to advertise it, because people can be jerks. But what tickles you individually isn't what's best for the TMNT brand at large, and it would be nice if you at least accepted that even if you continued to be defensive about it.

If need be, I can recommend some books that would cater more directly to your personal tastes, although I'm not aware of any that are currently in-print. But they'd probably speak more to you than TMNT does, based on what you seem to like best. And we can let TMNT be TMNT without mucking it up with things that are only going to be bad for the brand over the long haul. The things you want to see are bad for TMNT, but they've been done elsewhere plenty of times. So if it's really about what you say it is, "I'd just rather look at animal-people than People-People", then there's ways to scratch that itch without sending a perfectly good brand down the toilet. Just saying.

The things you wanna see are bad for THIS brand, though, and saying "Well it's what *I* want!" over and over again doesn't make anyone want to agree with you. It just makes you look entitled. And that's no way to make friends.

Originally Posted by Andrew NDB

FW has been "borrowed from" more than enough, enough for a lifetime. For ten lifetimes.

Yes, a movie can borrow IDW's reincarnation angle as long as they promise that is the only thing they take from it.

I agree with you on Point 1.

Point 2 would get them banned in China, and possibly Japan as well. Can't do it, G.

Although frankly, devoting 20+ minutes of a sub-120 minute movie to explaining the whole reincarnation deal would be a lousy idea, anyway. It's not like in comics where they've got "unlimited" pages to tell the story. That'd be asking the audience to swallow a lot all at once, and we still have a lot more movie to get through. I don't know, I don't think it would work.

As I've said elsewhere, every TMNT version has its own One Thing that should never be carried over. Nick has Every Single Thing About April, 4Kids has Utrom Shredder, IDW has reincarnation. These ideas work well in their OWN TMNT universe but aren't good enough to be justified anywhere else. They're just not really good ideas, they're merely ideas that make their own version of TMNT "unique". And as others have pointed out in this thread, "Different" or "Unique" do not equate with "Good". In a vacuum, these ideas are all pretty cheesy and terrible, to put it bluntly.

[Wildcat]

Ive always loved Utrom Shredder. Always thought it was a clever way to incorporate Shredder/Krang without just making them partners again. Plus it made for a unique backstory and more sinister villain.

I think people would be ok with that in a movie. Well mostly. Im sure some would complain they just turned-Krang-into-Shredder and call it lazy or something.

[Leo656]

It was literally only done for two reasons:

- "We need a 'Krang' or people will ask why there's no Krang, especially since we're going heavy on Utroms and they all look exactly like Krang, but Peter won't sign off on Krang. So let's do this and it'll be Just Different Enough to make him agree to it."

- "We'll show Leo cut Shredder's head off, so everyone will think we're edgy! And then we'll immediately walk it back and dilute the entire thing by pretty much giving the entire plot away in the next scene, when he calmly picks up his head and walks away. But for five seconds, everyone will think we're edgy! And that'll be cool!"

It's an "acceptable" idea within That Specific TMNT Universe. It makes sense within the world they built for THAT story. In any other TMNT story at all, it would be a terrible, horrible, borderline insulting idea.

Shredder's "just" some Japanese guy with an ax to grind, not an alien overlord who's thousands of years old. The biggest problem with that whole entire show - and I DO love that show, just not everything about it - is that WAY too often as it went on it became Generic Super-Hero Fiction that you just as well could have plopped the JLA or Avengers into. And that super-hero type stuff overwhelmed the entire latter part of the series. Even Yoshi and Saki's feud couldn't "just" be about pride and revenge, it had to be part of an intergalactic conspiracy with Aliens and Guardians and other dimensions and it's all just way too much.

KISS Theory. It's the first thing they teach you in writing class, and yet when they get writing jobs, so many people are all like "Well *I* know better."

Again, Utrom Shredder is fine for 2K3 but I don't ever want to see it again, and I think the vast majority of people feel the same. It didn't really go over too well with many people when it happened, either. I remember much crying and ballyhoo about it. But stuff like that definitely keeps 2K3 from being anything close to "definitive" in people's minds. And it really deserves more respect, and it probably would have it, if only the entire story of the show wasn't such an over-stuffed, over-cooked mess. It's a very good TMNT show but it needed a lot of trimming.

[Wildcat]

Oh. Well I never read up on that decision. I do not remember peoples reaction to it here either.

I see what you mean about them going more and more grand with things. I personally like when shows or movie series do that. As long as they start out simple enough and build up to it.

Although I never cared much for Fast Forward or Back to the Sewers. I know thats the common agreement already but should have been a separate show.

Although depending on what they did with it it might have been a perfectly fine direction for 4kids to do as 1 season. I dont know. I should rewatch it.

[newfan]

If they do use Shredder here I hope he is Saki and written to be compelling and a threat without needing to be some giant monster or alien robot. I thought Ch'rell was a good character to introduce in 2k3 and this was something different, but I would not like to see this become a norm for Shredder.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

It's time for a TMNT movie to just be about the five mutants fighting small time crime. Whether it's a street gang, the mob or the foot. None of this 'save the world/city from generically written villain #12723438'.

Go back to the scale and tone of the original 1990 movie. Establish characters, have them interact. Have some jokes and then throw some proper martial arts fight scenes in without any gimmicks.

It's really not that hard Hollywood.

[Leo656]

I'd like to buy you a drink! What's yer poison, stranger?

Say... d'you like Huey Lewis and the- NO! NO! Not THIS guy, dammit... not this guy.

Alright, I'm okay.

[PizzaPower1985]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

It's time for a TMNT movie to just be about the five mutants fighting small time crime. Whether it's a street gang, the mob or the foot. None of this 'save the world/city from generically written villain #12723438'.

Go back to the scale and tone of the original 1990 movie. Establish characters, have them interact. Have some jokes and then throw some proper martial arts fight scenes in without any gimmicks.

It's really not that hard Hollywood.

[Andrew NDB]

Originally Posted by Whatswiththeheadbands?

It's time for a TMNT movie to just be about the five mutants fighting small time crime. Whether it's a street gang, the mob or the foot. None of this 'save the world/city from generically written villain #12723438'.

Go back to the scale and tone of the original 1990 movie. Establish characters, have them interact. Have some jokes and then throw some proper martial arts fight scenes in without any gimmicks.

It's really not that hard Hollywood.

I agree with you except on one point, the fighting of the "small time crime." They aren't supposed to be crimefighters or vigilantes, really.

[Leo656]

And yet.......

Look, man, people aren't supposed to kick out of Superkicks or DDTs, either. But they do. Like, all the time. 30 years ago? Fired. Now? Five in one match, f*ck it.

...Not in my match, obviously, I'll smack ya for that sh*t. But the point is... sometimes having a case of the "Sposed'tas" just gives ya heartburn.

The world has moved on from such simple and pure ideas. We can catch up, or get left behind.