Official Episode Discussion S5 Ep 07: Yojimbo

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by neatoman

• Cool that you were? The FW take on the character is pretty terrible, so I don't see how anyone could see this as a downgrade from that particular version in the first place.

LOL, what? The original toon version of Usagi was pretty close to how his character is. How is it, "terrible?" Because he was a foreign person in a new world he was unfamiliar with?

[Ninjinister]

Originally Posted by THGhost

[*]Not showing the turtles for the first 8 mins of the episode. That's pretty ballsy, Nick. I'd be surprised if little kids didn't switch off due to boredom/confusion.

Why does everyone assume kids are f***ing numbskulls.

Have we never seen Leo's room?

Apparently not. I don't keep track of such things but there was an episode this season where he opened the door a crack but you couldn't see inside and people here LOST THEIR S**T

[snake]

I can only imagine how they reacted over at Turtlepedia.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? The original toon version of Usagi was pretty close to how his character is. How is it, "terrible?" Because he was a foreign person in a new world he was unfamiliar with?

It was a pretty bog standard fish out of water cliché, it was an idiotic use of the character. The episode just depicts him being unfamiliar with the world around him but what's worse is that he showed no ability what so ever to adapt to his surroundings, even going so far as to confuse a gimmick restaurant for the enslavement of rabbit-kind. I don't see Usagi in that episode, I don't even see a poor interpretation of Usagi, it feels like some lazy attempt to write Usagi based on a single sentence description (like a package blurb for example).

And they couldn't even get his name right! That's the most damning evidence to the FW crew were not familiar Usagi before putting him in the show, he was probably just another action figure that needed marketing to them.

Spoiler:

I don't want to rant about it but while I'm on the subject, **** the "person from the past completely misunderstanding the modern world" version of the "fish out of water cliché", it's the worst version of it!

"Oh no I don't understand what a [modern electric appliance] is, I'm not going to make an effort to figure out what it is or even be rational around it,
I'm just going to assume it's black magic and/or continue to be perplexed by it".

It's not funny because it makes the assumption people in the past had no reasoning skills, there's no logical connection there. Even if it was funny,
it's the same thing almost every time someone tries it, it's been done to death.

[Powder]

I enjoy the Fred Wolf Usagi episodes for what they are, but yeah, they totally bastardized him back then.

[CyberCubed]

Originally Posted by neatoman

It was a pretty bog standard fish out of water cliché, it was an idiotic use of the character. The episode just depicts him being unfamiliar with the world around him but what's worse is that he showed no ability what so ever to adapt to his surroundings, even going so far as to confuse a gimmick restaurant for the enslavement of rabbit-kind.

Usagi's entire world consists of animal people, why wouldn't he be confused when he sees some people dressed up as rabbits forced to work? Him trying to free them from servitude is exactly what Usagi would do in the comics.

Likewise other aspects of Usagi in those eps is Shredder using his honor bound status as a way to trick him, and besides that he stayed with the Japanese man and had to stop that dragon.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Usagi's entire world consists of animal people, why wouldn't he be confused when he sees some people dressed up as rabbits forced to work? Him trying to free them from servitude is exactly what Usagi would do in the comics.

Likewise other aspects of Usagi in those eps is Shredder using his honor bound status as a way to trick him, and besides that he stayed with the Japanese man and had to stop that dragon.

1. His world does have humans, he should not be that confused.


2. Their human faces were showing, clearly not actual rabbits.

3. He's supposed to be smart enough to connect the dots.

[CyberCubed]

In cartoons characters in disguises, even if they're obvious, are almost always fooled. Also would Usagi know the difference between someone with a rabbit body and a human face? He knows this is an alternate world, so he wouldn't know that's not the norm.

[Glitter Wand]

I am very new to Usagi, having only seen him in this episode and in the 2k3 incarnation (on youtube). I think they did a grate job portraying him in this version of the Tmnt.
However, at some point, he'll have to teach Kintaro a thing or two about respect.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

1. His world does have humans, he should not be that confused.

No there are not. Theres no indication in the Original toon that there are humans in Usagi's world, unless you're referring to another version.

[snake]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

No there are not. Theres no indication in the Original toon that there are humans in Usagi's world, unless you're referring to another version.

Which he clearly was.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by snake

Which he clearly was.

Why though? I think its a bit too much to be comparing Usagi's limited world in the OT (showing only 3 samurai pigs for a few seconds) to the entirety of Usagi's comics and then using that against Usagi's character in the OT which was not meant to be anything major or faithful to the original.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Why though? I think its a bit too much to be comparing Usagi's limited world in the OT (showing only 3 samurai pigs for a few seconds) to the entirety of Usagi's comics and then using that against Usagi's character in the OT.

Stop trolling. Even if FW Usagi doesn't have humans back home, he'd already seen humans on Earth. No reason he should be so stupid that he can't recognize a cheesy mask. Or are you going to argue that his world might not have masks since we didn't see them in the pig scene?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

Stop trolling. Even if FW Usagi doesn't have humans back home, he'd already seen humans on Earth. No reason he should be so stupid that he can't recognize a cheesy mask. Or are you going to argue that his world might not have masks since we didn't see them in the pig scene?

I'm not troĺling. And the answer to your question is that the FW show operates with cartoon logic where the turtle's trenchcoat disguises fool people, bebop dressed as a grandma fooled the turtles and slash fooled April as one of the ninja turtles.

This thread is going off topic unecessarily.

[neatoman]

Originally Posted by FredWolfLeonardo

Why though? I think its a bit too much to be comparing Usagi's limited world in the OT (showing only 3 samurai pigs for a few seconds) to the entirety of Usagi's comics and then using that against Usagi's character in the OT which was not meant to be anything major or faithful to the original.

Hikiji is one of the most important characters to Usagi's backstory, for as much of a disrespectful adaptation as the Fred Wolf cartoon was it didn't ignore the essentials when it came to the Turtles' origin. The whole concept of Usagi Yojimbo falls apart if Hikiji wasn't there.

Usagi Yojimbo without Hikiji is like TMNT without Hamato Yoshi, Batman without Joe Chill or Spider-Man without Uncle Ben.

[ToTheNines]

Originally Posted by neatoman

TMNT without Hamato Yoshi

Spoiler:

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Hikiji is one of the most important characters to Usagi's backstory, for as much of a disrespectful adaptation as the Fred Wolf cartoon was it didn't ignore the essentials when it came to the Turtles' origin. The whole concept of Usagi Yojimbo falls apart if Hikiji wasn't there.

Usagi Yojimbo without Hikiji is like TMNT without Hamato Yoshi, Batman without Joe Chill or Spider-Man without Uncle Ben.

Well, the FW toon didn't use Oroku Nagi and Tang Shen who I would certainly consider essential in the turtles' backstory from Mirage without whom, the turtles would've never come into existence.

I am not familiar with Usagi's original story, but I didn't mind any other of the original characters not being used because Usagi was only a guest star for 2 episodes and the turtles never went into Usagis world.

If we did get more episodes in his world though, I expect Hijiki to have beeen used since he is such an important character to the lore as you have said.

Since the current Nick toon episodes are all set in Usagi's world and go much deeper into his backstory, does that mean we can expect Hijiki to appear in the next 2 episodes maybe? I haven't seen the 4Kids Usagi episodes in a long time either so I dont know if he appears in that show.

[Ninjinister]

I remember reading somewhere that Sakai was actually regretful that he made Hijiki a human. It's apparently the reason he only shows up obscured these days when he does appear, and likely why he's never appeared in these adaptations.

Grain of salt all that, though, because I don't remember specifics or even where the source of the article was.

Originally Posted by snake

I can only imagine how they reacted over at Turtlepedia.

No idea, actually. If I read anything, I've forgotten/mentally blocked it. I try to stay out of the conversations unless I need to be there anyway usually. It's to the benefit of my psyche, really.

[THGhost]

Originally Posted by neatoman

Jei is an established Usagi character, I don't immedietly think of anything other than Jei when I see Jei.

Well I wouldn't know. He does look like Rahzar though. That's all I could think of when looking at him.

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Why does everyone assume kids are f***ing numbskulls.

I don't know, you'd have to ask them. Because that's not what I was implying at all. I was merely pointing out that leaving the turtles out of the episode for the first 8 minutes was a brave move. It wasn't a complaint, it was a compliment to Nick. So put the pitchfork down.

Originally Posted by Ninjinister

Apparently not. I don't keep track of such things but there was an episode this season where he opened the door a crack but you couldn't see inside and people here LOST THEIR S**T

Honestly, is it really that big of a deal?

Originally Posted by neatoman

The FW take on the character is pretty terrible, so I don't see how anyone could see this as a downgrade from that particular version in the first place.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

LOL, what? The original toon version of Usagi was pretty close to how his character is. How is it, "terrible?" Because he was a foreign person in a new world he was unfamiliar with?

I liked Usagi in the 80s cartoon. He didn't come across as terrible to me at all.

[IndigoErth]

I guess what I'd read a while ago about Usagi recognizing the Turtles, but these are not the Turtles he knows, must have meant the comic, not the cartoon? Little disappointed it isn't the show, it would have been interesting. (Unless Usagi brings it up later, but doubt it.)