Ninjutsu or Japanese martial arts?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

While practicing Japanese martial arts may be part of ninjtsu techniques, it's easy to end up seing the turtles as just practicing Japanese martial arts combined with some hiding in the shadows and using some old Japanese weapons.

When the UK censored TMNT, they sometimes did a good job replacing words like "Splinter was skilled in ninjutsu" with "Splinter was skilled in Japanese martial arts".

Real ninjas may have used firearms, something the turtles usually use just on their van. (even if fictional ninja may be based on a combination of real ninjas, and the myths about them)

So, do you care much for all aspects of the "ninja", or are you fine with the turtles using "Japanese budo" (karate chops and judo swings) and hiding in the shadows and using Japanese martial arts.

[PApagreg]

I kind of like the idea of the turtles doing a mix between Ninjustsu for when they need to be tactful and sneaky and more traditional Martial arts(Karate,Judo,and Akikido) when they need to fight.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Let's face is; what the turtles do (and what the fans want) is Hollywood Ninjitsu; budo, magic stealth, and their weapons, all used to kill people- what westerners pretend ninjas are.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

I kind of like the idea of the turtles doing a mix between Ninjustsu for when they need to be tactful and sneaky and more traditional Martial arts(Karate,Judo,and Akikido) when they need to fight.

If it had been "Teenage Mutant Budo Turtles" combined with some hiding, I would still probably be a fan.

[Ulisa]

I always assumed the turtles were supposed to reflect modern ninjutsu, which seems to be a mixture of various different kinds of martial arts, though that seems to depend on who you talk to. The art may have started as espionage and gueriella warfare but it’s evolved over time. At least, that’s my understanding of it. There’s martial arts schools around here that teach ninjutsu and they all claim that it is really taking bits and pieces from different schools of skills and thought and using them together as a form of self defense with a code of conduct

[IndigoErth]

It's just a "modern" (and Hollywood) version. Because they're known as ninjas, I take it as ninjutsu as the basis, but no harm, and probably a plus I'm sure, in having training in additional forms.

Though even the Turtles themselves of course kind of lean toward different strengths within it, or in their use of it, in some way or another. Esp with Leo leaning toward a samurai-like mentality and fighting style, and then there's Raph with his more brawler type personality and, of the four, I could easily see him making more use of martial art styles that involve a lot of grappling and modern MMA type stuff. (I could see him loving getting involved in MMA competitions! Though is oldest brother may be among those who don't count is as "real" martial arts. lol)

[Candy Kappa]

Ninjutsu isn't fisticuffs, it's the art of espionage, subterfuge, survival, acting and manipulation. Which doesn't translate well in a action adventure story abut humanoid creatures that's outside of society.

We simply don't see a lot of "ninjutsu", and any stealth we often see fails so that the Turtles can end up in fights with their enemy, because it's cooler then what a ninja would do; avoid fighting, and take down a enemy with a tripwire bomb instead of a super duper awesome sword fight.

Even in anime we hardly see any Shinobi no Jutsu, we see ninjas as inhumanly fast and effective fighters or straight up magic users from folklore and pop-culture.

the Turtles dressed in tre hcoats and human rubber masks passing as humans are far more ninja then being in a huge showdown with hordes of Foot members cutting them down. But one is usually more exiting then the other.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

I wonder if in some future TMNT version Splinter would be just a martial arts master of Koryu martial arts in general, and not have Splinter a ninja. And he taught the turtles these martial arts, and the turtles are actually mixed martial artists who everyone just calls 'ninja' because in the U.S Japanese martial arts are just so associated with ninjitsu; in other words, the TMNT are ninja in name only. Then no bandana color problems, and no heroic turtle problems.

[PApagreg]

Originally Posted by Panda_Kahn_fan

I wonder if in some future TMNT version Splinter would be just a martial arts master of Koryu martial arts in general, and not have Splinter a ninja. And he taught the turtles these martial arts, and the turtles are actually mixed martial artists who everyone just calls 'ninja' because in the U.S Japanese martial arts are just so associated with ninjitsu; in other words, the TMNT are ninja in name only. Then no bandana color problems, and no heroic turtle problems.

So how are they going to stay out of the public's eye without stealth.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by PApagreg

So how are they going to stay out of the public's eye without stealth.

Other martial arts have stealth, as well. They're not as focused on it as ninjitsu, but they don't need to learn that particular martial art to be stealthy.

[Candy Kappa]

Another thing. It's a bit silly to assume the Turtles (and the Foot) only knows 1 martial arts style.

2 of the Turtles use Okinawan weapons that's not traditionally Japanese, so they must be trained in karate or other Okinawan martial arts to properly use nunchaku and sai.

Leonardo near exclusively dual wields two blades (set aside the stupidity that is twin katana and focus more on daisho) which means he's gotta be trained to do it, and while most Japanese sword schools have a technique or two using two blades, Niten Ichi-Ryu is the one most famous for dual wielding and it's confirmed Leo uses Niten ichi in the Nick show.

We've seen the Foot use Indian weapons such as the later (Fist dagger) which also was a part of the Turtles arsenal in the vintage toyline, Raph even have a holster for it on his belt with the 1988 figure. So Indian martial arts is a possibility. We also see The Foot use polesrms that are not naginatas, but could be a bisento, but it's often depicted more like a Chinese guandao so there could be some Chinese martial arts mixed in as well.

Which makes sense, a modern ninja would explore other martial arts when going international. Krav maga, khali, kung fu. If the ninja was too locked in it's time, they'd still be using muskets and waterproof torches.

I think it's also hard to write the Turtles as Shinobi beyond kick-ass shadow warriors from ninja movies.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

This is why I believe it best to have Hamato Yoshi be one of those modern day ninja reinactors, who practices mixed martial arts.

[Candy Kappa]

Not a fan of the thought of making Yoshi a hobby ninja, that just seems to cheapen Yoshi.

Unless it's a lead-up to the revelation that real ninja still exists when confronted by the Foot.

[PizzaPower1985]

It is interesting that the TMNT are called ninjas given what ninjas actually are. They are closer to just martial artists with some ninja techniques and some Samurai methodology.

They can't actually be ninjas or they would be villains not heroes. And they certainly would have a lot harder time being kiddified for all of those fans that like the watered down versions.

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Originally Posted by Candy Kappa

Not a fan of the thought of making Yoshi a hobby ninja, that just seems to cheapen Yoshi.

Unless it's a lead-up to the revelation that real ninja still exists when confronted by the Foot.

I think it's better than the foot miraculously surviving the Meji restoration in secret, but that's just my opinion. All you need is yoshi and saki taking an interest in ninjitsu in their youth, studying under a reconstructionist sensei, Saki betraying yoshi and the sensei and starting the footclan, then yoshi coming to america.

[Candy Kappa]

It's not too far fetched in a comic book universe that ninjas survived in some capacity, despite the decline of usage since Tokugawa took over, guerrilla warfare and espionage is still useful skill sets either as government employees or mafia work

[Panda_Kahn_fan]

Eh, I suppose so. This is why I did away with them being ACTUAL ninjas in my TMNT reboot, but having ther foot being a secret ninja clan that survived into the modern world isn't too far out there, in comic book terms.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Making the Foot officially becoming a club for Japanese martial arts (like judo and karate) around 1869 is the best way to allow it to survive the Meiji Restoration.

But in practice, parts of the ninjutsu tradition are still always there.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

I prefer for Splinter and the Turtles and the Foot to practice "genuine"(for their universe) Ninjutsu rather than just practicing random Martial Arts and calliing it Ninjutsu.

But, I think it's actually part of the Turtle's characters that they're good fighters, but not necessarily good "ninja". They rely too much on their Taijutsu and Melee Weapon skills (which are top-notch) and not enough on Ninja stealth and trickery (which they're not as good at, to Splinter's dismay). They supposedly know enough stealth to hide form the public, but they live in a city where people would just assume they were cosplayers or street performers and wouldn't pay much attention anyway. Splinter and Shredder on the other hand are meant to make more use of "true" Ninja tactics.

That said, at this point in my life, I don't find straight up fight scenes all that exciting anymore, and would rather see clever strategy and mind games win the day. So, I would welcome a version of TMNT where they dispatch their foes with sneak attacks and traps more often and only occasionally find themselves in direct combat.

Or better yet, split the diff. I would love to see a version that explores what I said above. Have the Turtles start off young and reckless, relying on their fighting skills to win every battle while Splinter nags them to work on their stealth and strategy.

Splinter by contrast could go back to being truly elderly, unable to hold up a physical fight like the Turtles, but is far more dangerous than them by being a genius at deadly sneak attacks, clever traps, Kuji Mystic Arts, and being able to disappear completely into the shadows.

Then when the Turtles face Shredder and/or Elite Foot for the first time, they get their asses kicked and barely make it out alive (perhaps due to Splinter's intervention). And, it humbles them and they start to take their Ninjutsu training seriously and become more Ninja-like as the story goes on.

[Kendamu]

It mostly comes down to the fact that the majority of people working on the fighting and stealth sequences in TMNT aren't educated in Koryu Bujutsu or Ninjutsu in either its historical context or in its modern Ninpo context. Even then, the modern Ninpo guys learn both Bujutsu and Ninjutsu so it's not weird that the Turtles know how to fight face-to-face. Even the historical Ninja did some face-to-face fighting once an ambush was set in motion and there was chaos everywhere.

Most people working on TMNT know mostly the comic book ninja and movie ninja stereotype. That's okay, though. Most fans don't know the difference, anyway.

There was a little bit of an effort in the first season of 2k12 to put in some authentic modern Ninpo (stuff mainly derived from an offshoot dojo of the Genbukan based in Los Angeles), but the writer responsible for most of that left the show after Season 1. Even then, it wasn't trying to go to ATLA levels of authenticity.

There was also the "Healing Hands" stuff based off Kuji-In, but that wasn't used in an authentic manner at all. Still entertaining, though!!

I was impressed with what was done leading up to Issue 50 of the IDW TMNT, though. Shredder and Krang's meeting on the ship had some pretty interesting ninjutsu in it. The planning of and the assault on the Technodrome had some interesting ninjutsu as well. It's just that, when you're playing it straight, strategies like those can't be used all the time or they stop being cool twists in the story and start to become expected.

I suppose the Turtles could always learn Ninja magic, I guess. A lot of people would think the Turtles were ripping off Naruto, but that style of Ninja magic in Japanese film has actually been around for a really long time. It's not like Kishimoto invented it.