why do people hate fast foward

[CyberCubed]

Many of the FF villains have a meh or average first episode but then get better in their second or third appearances. Although I liked Zixx and the Inuwashi Gunjin from the start. Darius, Viral, Shoko'nobo and the others get better as their plots get more involved as the season goes on.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Many of the FF villains have a meh or average first episode but then get better in their second or third appearances. Although I liked Zixx and the Inuwashi Gunjin from the start. Darius, Viral, Shoko'nobo and the others get better as their plots get more involved as the season goes on.

Yeah. As much as I dislike Fast Forward in its execution, all of the villains are great; really interesting designs, good concepts, lotta potential.

[srmff]

I never liked the superhero episodes except for Nobody.

[Prowler]

I wouldn't say I hate it. But I wasn't a big fan of it. Clearly the show was running out of steam and that prompted them to make the decision of changing the show's style and direction. By the time Shredder was defeated in season 3, the writers seemed to be starting to lose direction of the show. Season 4, while pretty good, cleverly didn't have much of an overall plot compared to the previous three.

Season 4 was the last truly great season of the show. The last 3 seasons of the show were 3 different attempts at changing up things to prevent the show from dying a quicker death. I guess it worked? But the show didn't have that great of an ending. If you told me back in 2003 that the later seasons of the series were going to turn into what they did, I'd not have believed you.

It's strange. The FW series became. A bit more serious near the end, while 2k3 became goofier.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Prowler

I wouldn't say I hate it. But I wasn't a big fan of it. Clearly the show was running out of steam and that prompted them to make the decision of changing the show's style and direction.

There's some posts on Peter Laird's blog about season 06 before it became Fast Forward.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....&by-date=false

Subj: Re: FW: Turtles Season Six
Date: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:57:59 PM
From: Peter Laird
To: Lloyd Goldfine


<<Howdy all –

Attached please find the jumping off point for Turtles Season Six. It’s got all the new stuff we’ve all been discussing, some of the old information that new writers will still need to know, and few new things to think about.

Give a read through and then let’s discuss.

Cheers!

Lloyd>>


Lloyd,


Here are my comments on your mini-bible. Thanks for putting it together, by the way!


1.) Re: the following:

"The stories this season will be fun, self-contained, and unencumbered by the complex continuity that we have built up over the past seasons. "

This is fine as long as we don't start doing stories that ignore and/or contradict previously established continuity.


2.) Re: the following:

"Or picture a turtle roll-call sequence. As their names are called out, each turtle leaps forward and spectacularly executes his “signature” ninja move with their “signature” ninja weapon! But as Michelangelo flips forward, he over rotates and winds up landing in a heap next to his battle-ready brothers! At which point, the other three, heroically posed and trying not to lose their composure, begin to chuckle and rag on their fallen brother! “Aw man!” “Dude, yer makin’ us look weak!” “Ya gotta stick those landings Mikey!”"

This kind of thing will get old VERY quickly, especially once you consider that we've had five seasons during which the Turtles have demonstrated over and over again that they are highly proficient martial artists. For them -- even just Mikey -- to suddenly turn into bumbling, inept goofballs is just silly.

3.) Re: the following:

"Lastly, if it’s a really great moment and a really great line, the Turtles are not above addressing the audience directly. For example, in the stunned-silent aftermath of one of Raphael’s hotheaded, overblown temper-tantrums, Mike might look out at us an say, “I hate when he does that…” "

NO!!! To my mind, this takes us right down to the level of the old Fred Wolf show.


4.) Re: the following:

"Casey Jones is a son-of-a-bitch"

Huh??? Maybe there is another meaning to that phrase that escapes me, but for me it has always meant "asshole". And I don't think of Casey that way.


5.) Re: the following:

"Turtle Boy
The Turtle encounter a kid who seems to know a lot about them. He’s got clippings from the Weekly Weird News, evidence from past battles, and he’s wearing a homemade shell! He calls himself Turtle Boy, and he’s their number one fan!"

This one makes me feel a bit queasy, given its similarity to the whole "Fifth Turtle" nonsense from the old Fred Wolf show. I would only approve something like this if it was done in a REALLY clever way, maybe focusing on the ridiculous aspects of extreme fandom. And it doesn't have to be a boy -- it could be a girl.


6.) Re: the following:

"Tiger Shark
There’s a new ninja in town. A highly skilled fighter with strange powers and criminal intentions. He calls himself the Tiger Shark. And the Tiger Shark is the only known natural predator of the turtle..!"

There's something a bit cliche about the name of this character (I'm almost certain that there have been other characters with the same name). And I'm pretty sure that turtles have other predators. And why is he a ninja? Is he involved with the Foot? Where are the Foot, anyway? What's happened to Karai?


7.) I am really trying to keep an open mind about this new approach to the show, but I am also really hoping that it doesn't turn out as goofy as it appears it might from some of the stuff in this mini-bible.
I understand the desire (although not the perceived necessity) to go for standalone episodes and a lighter overall tone, but I think it would behoove us to not just throw out five years of effort, during which we have created a complex and compelling universe for the characters that many fans would be very unhappy to see disappear or be demeaned. I think the attitude we should have is that this is the same show and the same characters and the same universe -- we're just focussing more closely on certain aspects of it.

[Vegita-San]

this is why we need a peter laird in charge of the franchise.

Kevin Eastman would have approved everything in that note.

Pete knows it's not right for the tone of the show. I still shudder at mike getting defeated by bubble wrap.

[Leo656]

Yeah. Jesus Christ, what were those people smoking over there? I'm amazed the 4Kids show didn't turn to crap way before it did.

I've always been upfront, I didn't like most of what Laird did by himself on TMNT. I thought his writing style is too bland for what most people expect TMNT comics to be like, in general. I still feel that way about much of it.

But damn it, I definitely respect him for being the only person who ever handled the franchise who WASN'T okay with "rubber-stamping" it for whatever stupid gag came to mind.

Guy really was the Only Sane Man in the room the whole entire time, the only one who ever tried to put any integrity into this damn franchise and not just say, "Well, c'mon... it's STUPID, so let's Get Stupid!"

Now there's nobody. Not one damn person with any power at all saying "Y'know... maybe we don't HAVE to be stupid?"

Dead Franchise is Dead.

[Sumac]

Gee, man, Laird certainly saved 2k3 from turning into hot pile of garbage.

[Vegita-San]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Gee, man, Laird certainly saved 2k3 from turning into hot pile of garbage.

problem is that the 4kids people probably saw the playmates /fred wolf profits and where hoping for some of that when the company was dying. probably thinking it'd also give the show afew more years of life left.

they all seemed to be on the same page for seasons 1-4.

[ABrown]

I've often wondered if the reaction to Fast Forward would've been different had the 12 Ninja Tribunal episodes aired in the Fall of 2006. And then the first 13 episodes of FF would've aired in Spring of 2007, leaving the final 13 FF episodes to air in the Fall of 2007.

[Sumac]

As absurd and anime-ish Ninja Tribunal was, it still was leagues ahead of FF.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Sumac

Gee, man, Laird certainly saved 2k3 from turning into hot pile of garbage.

Although he seems to go a bit too far at times, which Lloyd Goldfine calls him out on.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....4-re-tmnt.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....3-2004-re.html

[Sumac]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Although he seems to go a bit too far at times, which Lloyd Goldfine calls him out on.

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....4-re-tmnt.html

http://peterlairdstmntblog.blogspot....3-2004-re.html

Nah, I think he was right.
Yeah, he is harsh, but that is needed, when you deal with people who want to turn good series into big advertisement only (looks at 2k12).

[SaurusX]

Originally Posted by Sumac

As absurd and anime-ish Ninja Tribunal was, it still was leagues ahead of FF.

I thought the whole mystic angle for the season worked just fine. We’d already had the turtles go into outer space, fight ninjas in the street, and deal with other monster-types. Why not a season with demons and zombies? The resurrection scene of the demon Shredder was pretty badass.