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Old 03-23-2018, 08:35 AM   #41
Leonardo_thebest
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Superman III is better than TMNT 3.
Both are better than MOS, BVS, and Justice League and Bayturtles 1&2

Nah, just kidding. TMNT3 just blows. Superman III is gold.

Bayturtles killed my desire for more turtle films. And with Ready Player One.... yeah, double damage.

Likewise, I'm done with Superman and Batman. Aquaman will be dead soon.
I'm all nostalgiaed out. Time for fresh stuff, like, give me a Saga film, or Atomic Axe, or Squarriors!

http://squarriors.com/

New blood! but not Liefields Newblood. Youngblood? Blood pouch? Badly-drawn feet-man?
Tits to the side starvation girl. Rippedoff wolverine with a twist guy.

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Old 03-23-2018, 09:49 AM   #42
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even though Genisys was a surprisingly fun parody.
I've never heard Genisys described that way. I don't think it's that far off the mark.

Shame on them for lowballing T5 with PG-13 when T4 tried the same thing and failed, though.

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Like, that McDonald's on Main Street is terrible I won't visit that franchise again? Meaning that particular store, as opposed to McDonald's and its entirety?
Plenty of people have a bad experience at Burger King, or a Pizza Hut, or a Red Robin and swear off the franchise. Often times it doesn't last, but it's definitely a thing. "I'm never going to a Red Robin ever again after I found that hair in my damn burger!"/"... after that waitress was so rude to me!"/"... after I had to wait 50 minutes for my food!"

I mean, it makes sense. Even if you don't visit that Red Robin ever again, if you visit another one some part of that money you spend is going to end up in the franchise fee monies going to the same Mr. Red Robin at the top.
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Old 03-23-2018, 10:27 AM   #43
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The Star Wars Sequel trilogy really HAS ruined the originals.

All the struggle, all the dying all the anguish and the joy at the end is completely squashed now. you know it pretty much means nothing.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:10 AM   #44
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In my understanding a franchise goes bad when you don't want to see it continue anymore. In that case Terminator has been ruined since T3, even though Genisys was a surprisingly fun parody. Predator might be on its way to ruination, but I'll give the new one the benefit of the doubt.
I think from certain point of view Predator is beyond being ruined - AVP, AVP2, Predators. Some even consider Predator 2 being a bad movie.

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The Star Wars Sequel trilogy really HAS ruined the originals.

All the struggle, all the dying all the anguish and the joy at the end is completely squashed now. you know it pretty much means nothing.
Some people find it "meaningful deconstruction of the OT themes and that it is suppose to reflect real world". Well, those people can eat some ****. If they have ruined their own lives and become losers it doesn't mean that SW should reflect it.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:26 AM   #45
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I think from certain point of view Predator is beyond being ruined - AVP, AVP2, Predators.
I think people are able to mentally compartmentalize the two AVP movies into their own private island of suck... but they certainly didn't help at all.

"Predators" is a shame. I enjoyed it quite a lot, but #1, it had way too many forced callbacks to the original movie, many of the characters saying the same lines just because of nostalgia. Very annoying. #2, it's missing anything in the way of a satisfying ending. There should have been extra oomph there. It'd be like if Aliens had stopped with Ripley getting aboard that dropship on top of the building, and we never had the Queen battle on the Sulaco.

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Some even consider Predator 2 being a bad movie.
It didn't really move the meter when it came out, but I wouldn't call it a bad movie. It's very... comic book-like. Not in like a "comic book movie" is... it just literally feels like you're watching a comic book come to life.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:58 AM   #46
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I think people are able to mentally compartmentalize the two AVP movies into their own private island of suck... but they certainly didn't help at all.
I have somewhat enjoyed first AVP, first time characters from my childhood together on the big screen, but it's certainly a mediocre movie.
Also, it had resembled a weird Predator 3 book I've read several years prior. In it Dutch and Hurricane work together on the Arctic base to take down special Predator send to make a final verdict - is human race advanced enough to stop hunting them or not. Some of the bits of the story are very similar to the AVP movie. Predator dies the same way as alien queen and I think there are some other similarities.

AVP2 was horrible.

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"Predators" is a shame. I enjoyed it quite a lot, but #1, it had way too many forced callbacks to the original movie, many of the characters saying the same lines just because of nostalgia. Very annoying. #2, it's missing anything in the way of a satisfying ending. There should have been extra oomph there. It'd be like if Aliens had stopped with Ripley getting aboard that dropship on top of the building, and we never had the Queen battle on the Sulaco.
Yeah, the idea was good, but the movie have barely did anything with it and in general it felt underwhelming. The ending especially so.

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It didn't really move the meter when it came out, but I wouldn't call it a bad movie. It's very... comic book-like. Not in like a "comic book movie" is... it just literally feels like you're watching a comic book come to life.
I like Predator 2 almost as the first one. It has unique atmosphere and I really love how it's not just a copycat of the first movie, but tries to do something different with the concept. Mike Hurricane is badass as well as his crew and Busey's own brand of ham certainly helps.
The ending is complete WTF, but it's fun.
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Old 03-23-2018, 12:55 PM   #47
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The Star Wars Sequel trilogy really HAS ruined the originals.

All the struggle, all the dying all the anguish and the joy at the end is completely squashed now. you know it pretty much means nothing.
No, it doesn't ruin movies that came out 30 years ago. The original Star Wars trilogy is mostly self contained, same reason people could ignore the prequels or all the extended universe comics/novels that came out for 20 years before the new movies.

Likewise the new trilogy IS 30 years later. It's not like Luke/Han/Leia all dropped dead the next day after episode 6 ended.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:10 PM   #48
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The Matrix Reloaded is the better film, Revolutions is just a generic sci-fi movie. Yes, Reloaded is totally pretentious and it doesn't have the best story but it did so much world building that totally worked. Rouge Programs? Different types of programs that have specific uses in the Matrix? This seems straight out of an on going show or video game series since each of those characters have plenty of possibilities.

You're given a bunch of things to question and they don't let you know. It keeps your interest into finding out what all these secrets are and then....Revolutions throws it all away for generic answers / fight with the machines. Revolutions retroactively makes Reloaded worse off since it gives unsatisfying answers to the questions pondered by it. But if we ignore Revolutions then I find Reloaded far more watchable than Revolutions since it at least has hope of having cool answers in that third movie after all the world building while Revolutions just squanders it all for a generic sci-fi flick.


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No, it doesn't ruin movies that came out 30 years ago. The original Star Wars trilogy is mostly self contained, same reason people could ignore the prequels or all the extended universe comics/novels that came out for 20 years before the new movies.

Likewise the new trilogy IS 30 years later. It's not like Luke/Han/Leia all dropped dead the next day after episode 6 ended.

It definitely ruins future movies, the idea that you know "canonically" after the original films all those awesome adventures lead to absolutely nothing since it's still Empire v Rebels.

Yeah you can be one of those smart ass comments online "What sequel ______ never got a sequel?" But in a saga like Star Wars where you love the universe and want to watch more it just ruins the franchise for future entries and your only option is to be one of those weird nerds that ignore the prequels as not existing, so in a way he isn't entirely wrong. I know I feel less excited about Star Wars in general even if the original movies will always be there, it's hard to ignore everything else, especially for a franchise as big as SWs, these aren't cheap DTV movies.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:14 PM   #49
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It definitely ruins future movies, the idea that you know "canonically" after the original films all those awesome adventures lead to absolutely nothing since it's still Empire v Rebels.
There is that. Like, you see Admiral Ackbar leaning back in his chair, sighing in relief at the end of "Return of the Jedi"'s victory... but deep down you can't simply ignore (I mean, I guess you can, but it's still there) that you know he'll still be fighting Imperials 40 years later, and dying off-camera to help a bunch of "Rebels" that aren't rebels. And that's stupid and sucks.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:20 PM   #50
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I think from certain point of view Predator is beyond being ruined - AVP, AVP2, Predators. Some even consider Predator 2 being a bad movie.


Some people find it "meaningful deconstruction of the OT themes and that it is suppose to reflect real world". Well, those people can eat some ****. If they have ruined their own lives and become losers it doesn't mean that SW should reflect it.
You're so not self-aware.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:23 PM   #51
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The Star Wars Sequel trilogy really HAS ruined the originals.

All the struggle, all the dying all the anguish and the joy at the end is completely squashed now. you know it pretty much means nothing.
That was the point.
Nothing means anything. Welcome to reality.
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:20 PM   #52
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Star Wars totally sux now

In 10 years no one will be raving about the new trilogy or anthology films anymore
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:50 PM   #53
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The Matrix Reloaded is the better film, Revolutions is just a generic sci-fi movie. Yes, Reloaded is totally pretentious and it doesn't have the best story but it did so much world building that totally worked. Rouge Programs? Different types of programs that have specific uses in the Matrix? This seems straight out of an on going show or video game series since each of those characters have plenty of possibilities.

You're given a bunch of things to question and they don't let you know. It keeps your interest into finding out what all these secrets are and then....Revolutions throws it all away for generic answers / fight with the machines. Revolutions retroactively makes Reloaded worse off since it gives unsatisfying answers to the questions pondered by it. But if we ignore Revolutions then I find Reloaded far more watchable than Revolutions since it at least has hope of having cool answers in that third movie after all the world building while Revolutions just squanders it all for a generic sci-fi flick.
I'd say, there were not much answers to give after Neo talk with the Architect. Everything was answered more or less, the only thing that left is to advance plot.
Yeah, idea with multiple programs had potential, but you need some kind of TV show to fully explore it. I don't think interesting premise like this can be properly explored in a one single movie.

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You're so not self-aware.
You are not even trying.

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That was the point.
Nothing means anything. Welcome to reality.
Ah, yes, the most ****** justification possible.
It's good only for people with no imagination or an agenda. Or losers. So...
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Old 03-23-2018, 05:18 PM   #54
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"Let's turn all the 1s to 0s... so we're all the same and everything and everybody is equal!"

I wonder where I've heard that ideology before...
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:23 PM   #55
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As I said before, you can pick and choose what movies to watch. Every single movie franchise has had a bad sequel in there somewhere if they go on for multiple iterations. Then of course you have the inevitable reboots that happen 10 years later, sometimes those are good but sometimes worse than the originals. As I said, you can just ignore them. I don't see what is so hard about this.

Die Hard 5 which I've never watched I heard was horrible. Does that make me dislike Die Hard 1-4? No, because I never watched it. Even if I eventually did it wouldn't make me change my opinion on the older movies because I can just ignore it.

Hell there's a Home Alone 3, 4 and 5? Who gives a crap? I just watch the first 2. People ignore bad movie sequels, this isn't rocket science.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:44 PM   #56
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Die Hard 5 which I've never watched I heard was horrible.
It is horrible.
Boring and not exciting at all.
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Old 03-25-2018, 04:54 AM   #57
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None. Like I’ve said, I think some people are way too cynical about movies. It’s hard explain but I just don’t view movies through the pessimism others do.

Sequels tend to be unfairly judged. Even if you don’t have preconceived ideas your mind already expects it to live up to something. They can to a point.

The problem is people want sequels to match the same level of “wonder” every time. It can only happen once because the idea can only establish itself once.

I always give the benefit of the doubt. As long as something is plausible within the context I’m fine with it. I’ll retrace scenes or something will occur to me and I think...ok I can see that.

Plus certain stuff can always be reworked or “fixed” in sequels. I mean sequels can just as easily improve something that wasn’t well received.

I do not agree bad movies can ruin franchises. If you can’t differentiate between them that’s on you. Sometimes they’re generic enough you can ignore them since they have no serious influence on storylines.

Then there’s the crowd who just like to be against stuff and say “cash-grab, garbage etc”. That’s not a real argument imo.
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Old 03-25-2018, 05:36 AM   #58
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Die Hard 5 which I've never watched I heard was horrible.
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It is horrible.
Boring and not exciting at all.
I'd never thought about this until now... but I think Die Hard 4 and 5 are, like, the perfect comparison pieces to the AVP films.

AVP 1 was PG-13, super light and big budget and... kind of entertaining if tame in what it was showing, and seemed "big," but only sparingly delivered but delivered nonetheless. Same as Die Hard 4.

AVP 2 was R, super gory, low budget and... not that entertaining and seemed rather small. Never delivered. Maybe in parts. Same as Die Hard 5.

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Hell there's a Home Alone 3, 4 and 5?
You know, I've wondered about those movies for years. Particularly 4. I haven't even heard of 5. I say 4 only because it involves Kevin McCallister again, even if it's a different actor. 3 just had some different, random as*hole kid in a different scenario, as best as I can recall reading about it... hardly catnip to make one go and see it, even a kid.
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Old 03-25-2018, 12:07 PM   #59
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None. Like Iíve said, I think some people are way too cynical about movies. Itís hard explain but I just donít view movies through the pessimism others do.

Sequels tend to be unfairly judged. Even if you donít have preconceived ideas your mind already expects it to live up to something. They can to a point.

The problem is people want sequels to match the same level of ďwonderĒ every time. It can only happen once because the idea can only establish itself once.
I understand your point and I tend to go into sequels with this in mind, I'll use Jurassic Park as an example. The first movie hits a bunch of themes and it just doesn't lend to a sequel that can outdo the first film. But for those of us who loved the idea of having a world where dinosaurs exist in this island, we want to know more stories of what's happening in this world even if plot wise it can never outmatch the original. I enjoy The Lost World, /// and JW for what they are, fun dinosaur action but I know none of those films will be better.

More sequels to a story that don't necessarily compromise characters or ideas excessively are fine. Take TMNT III for example, it's not a great movie and has the turtles acting silly but you can ignore it easily and if they had made a TMNT 4 it would've been fine.

The point in the OP is more of a series of movies that has messed up characters for so long that no matter what they do in a sequel they can't fix it or that they've tried rebooting the idea so many times and keep failing that you just don't care to check out that franchise anymore.

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You know, I've wondered about those movies for years. Particularly 4. I haven't even heard of 5. I say 4 only because it involves Kevin McCallister again, even if it's a different actor. 3 just had some different, random as*hole kid in a different scenario, as best as I can recall reading about it... hardly catnip to make one go and see it, even a kid.
Damn, now I feel inclined to watch the Home Alone sequels. I will forever love 1 and 2 even if it's basically the same movie.

HA3 came out when I was a bit older so I didn't care to check it out since there were other movies I'd rather ask for but counting it came out in the 90s I think I may find it entertaining even if only nostalgia of the way the movie is.

Isn't HA4 a reboot? HA 5 I also hadn't heard about and I remember looking the wikipedia of the Home Alone franchise maybe 2 years ago or so when I re-watched the first two films.
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Old 03-25-2018, 06:38 PM   #60
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"Alien"? Utterly destroyed by its creator with the one-two punch of Prometheus and Covenant.Jockey


Am I missing any here?
This movie franchise has been the one I've been upset at the most.

Prometheus and Aliens: Covenant took away the 'alieness' of the Alien and Space Jockey, instead making it all connected around humans and some dumb android with daddy issues. I hate this producer 'explaining the mystery' just so he can insert his pet character David as the linchpin to it all, trying to make it 'deep' and have 'meaning' about the relationship between creator and creation, when that crap is for another genre entirely, not what should be a horror movie in space.

To me, the Alien is a monster that is just one of the cruel hazards of nature that exists out in a cold indifferent universe. It's not nice, it doesn't give a damn about humans, it just does what it can to survive in an extremely harsh environment. The Space Jockeys are just another alien surprise out there, strange elephantoid giants that roam space in their bizarre spaceships, who are just as alien as the Alien, and might even be as cold and unfeeling towards the fragile humans that get a glimpse of them.

Neither of these aliens had any connection to humans, and that is what makes the 'universe' so vast and scary. Ridley Scott grossly undermined what would have been two viable (but separate) franchise by not being able to bear having his precious android not see the light of day at that moment, so we got subjected to a 'deep' movie about the relationship between a creation and it's creator, lots of pretentious navelgazing, and the homoerotic line between two David models, 'You blow, and I'll finger,' in what is supposed to be a movie about some H.R Giger monsters in space.

I would not have begrudged R. Scott if he had made his concept into a totally separate franchise. But he pretty much made it very hard to recover, since now he's made these concepts indelibly 'tied' to this franchise, and we now have a few fans even rooting for what he did to the SJs and Aliens and how his character David is 'brilliant.'

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