If rewritten and a different animal, could Venus be a better character?

[GoldMutant]

(prepares for the shotguns)

The Next Mutation, easily the bottom of the barrel for the franchise alongside any stupid live action nonsense from the third film, the concerts, etc. I am kind of guilty on the theme, being a favorite of mine alongside the Red Sky intro. Anyways, it could be the absurd nature of the show, it could be coming off as a Power Rangers type show because of Saban, but there's one scapegoat.

Venus De Milo, a fifth turtle ordered by Saban to be used for this show, became a main character throughout the long run. However, she proved to be extremely unpopular due to her appearance, destroying the seemingly brotherly bond in all incarnations (which could confuse newcomers), and most of all being a Mary Sue type character. Even as a loose continuation to the movies, it was more of Venus' show than the Turtles, where they were all useless entirely. Though appearing in a few comics and a joke in the Nick show, any further mention is null and void due to Peter Laird wanting her removed and many fans detesting her to the boundaries of time.

Venus comes off as a Scrappy Doo type character, where despite lukewarm reception, has overtime gotten severe flack. She's among the worst characters to grace the franchise due to her influence. However, what if redone?

Say if Venus was brought back, but as a different reptile and different age than our favorite heroes. You could still fire a female turtle joke in, but for the most part a revamped version of the individual. Tons of characters go through different incarnations, some for the better and others for the worst. We all have personal tastes for what we want in our own TMNT.

Okay I'm just rambling now and I'm preparing for backlash (time to hide in the closet), but what do you guys think? If a much different version of Venus was handled that isn't a TMNT, would it work better? Or, should Mei Pieh Chi be left dead?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Maybe she'll return soon, when Nickelodeon wants some more mutant to money of?

[IndigoErth]

If a turtle, it would work better imo if the situation was more like that of Slash. A noticeably different species and is an independent character separate from the TMNT family. Obviously being a different animal all together and not living with them would make her just another mutant, a friend, and would be completely different and probably little issue.

If she must live with them... then, esp if she's a turtle, cut out the first T and N. Make her an adopted kid sister half their age or younger. This way it's still just the guys in the action scenes, but at home she's there to adorably and hilariously drive the guys crazy, and get some cute scenes in now and then, too. Might endear her more to an audience rather then be so off putting.


Edit: Now I'm seeing poor little Tea Time Girl getting mutated like this and they end up taking her in. lol

[PangolinFeets]

As a whole, TNM is terrible, but I firmly believe she is mostly terrible by association. Other takes on a 5th turtle, including female takes, are pretty cool. She just needs a good writer behind her and actual thought put into her design and motivations.

P.S: if they decide to rez her in the IDW line, I hope Campbell gets a crack at her.

[TMNachoT]

Give her an different origin from the turtles, make her another animal and a good story and she can be a good character.

[sdp]

Re-written and a different animal? In that case she is not Venus at all.

Have her be a "5th" turtle as much as say Slash, Metalhead or even Zack have been, something temporary. Her origin could still be somewhat similar, she is from the same petshop or just another random turtle that got affected by the same mutagen and grew up in Chinatown. The character has potential. Venus may not work very well in say the Mirage continuity but in other continuities with plenty of mutants and hybrids why not. just look at how often we get Venus' threads here in the drome, there is definitely interest in seeing the character either because few people liked her, morbid curiousity or to see it done again a bit different.

Originally Posted by GoldMutant

(prepares for the shotguns)

The Next Mutation, easily the bottom of the barrel for the franchise alongside any stupid live action nonsense from the third film, the concerts, etc.

Ok, so it's "easily the bottom of the barrel" and then you mention other stuff that you consider far worse but somehow they don't count?

Venus De Milo, became a main character throughout the long run. However, she proved to be extremely unpopular due to her appearance, destroying the seemingly brotherly bond in all incarnations (which could confuse newcomers), and most of all being a Mary Sue type character.Even as a loose continuation to the movies, it was more of Venus' show than the Turtles, where they were all useless entirely.

Which long run? It was only one season..
Was she really that unpopular when it came out? Only to fans who at the time were no longer kids so they weren't the target demographic, by the time of TNM the turtle fad had long been dead and this tried to revive it. It's not that people hate Venus, it's that the franchise was dead at the time and only fans looking back say it was her who killed it while it was those people growing up the reason they didn't even like it.
In 1997 the target audience was kids and the internet wasn't a thing like it is today, I can assure you not many people even knew or thought about what a Mary Sue type character even is. How exactly did she destroy the brotherly bond? You mean the biological bond, the one that had never been stated before TNM? And how was this more of the Venus show? Did you even watch the show? Outside of the pilot and two focus episodes on her she was actually barely in the show at all, she was easily the turtle with the least amount of screen time, like most incarnations it had a lot of Raph being angry at Leo and Mikey being an idiot.

Though appearing in a few comics and a joke in the Nick show, any further mention is null and void due to Peter Laird wanting her removed and many fans detesting her to the boundaries of time.

What comics did she appear in?
What jokes did the NIck show make about her?
Peter Laird no longer owns the franchise so what he thinks is null. If anyone wants to use Venus, they can use her.

Venus comes off as a Scrappy Doo type character, where despite lukewarm reception, has overtime gotten severe flack. She's among the worst characters to grace the franchise due to her influence. However, what if redone?

I agree with the Scrappy comparison somewhat. Scrappy actually saved the Scooby franchise and actually became a more interesting character over time. Then people forgot about him and now he is somehow mentioned as being the thing that ruined the franchise while he saved it. So venus just like Scrappy have all this undeserved hate and they're easy targets for general people who don't know what they're talking about to just bash why a show went wrong. Sure in Venus' case she didn't save the franchise but she didn't really negatively affect it.

[CyberCubed]

Mona Lisa is already essentially Venus as a "different animal."

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

Mona Lisa is already essentially Venus as a "different animal."

Mona did come first though Cubed. I get the reception of her is pretty negative, but barring ML, I think Venus could work given proper circumstances.

Note: By negative, I refer to Venus, not Mona guys. I made a mistake with the wording. Mona I do like, but not as much as others, I kinda of prefer Alopex and other female characters. If confused, apologies.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Mona Lisa's reception negative??!! Have you ever even LOOKED at how much fan art there is of her?! Many fans seem to like her, and not just "shippers", either. There are plenty of fans who like her character, though admittedly many of them are female themselves.

I also think that given that Mona came first and was well-enough received to get a figure in the toy line, another female mutant character was inevitable. Venus was simply an attempt to "recreate" Mona in a different form. We'd already had Ninjara, as well, so a "marriage" of the two ideas (female reptile mutant + female ninja) made sense at the time. The fact that her backstory was completely ridiculous and contrived (and that she was a Mary Sue) was the fault of the writers and production staff, not the character concept itself.

Personally, I think that Venus could indeed be done WELL and work, and I actually like Indigo's idea with the "kid sister", or the random pet shop turtle in Chinatown getting mutated idea from TmNtRoX. Either could work well if written properly.

[GoldMutant]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

Mona Lisa's reception negative??!! Have you ever even LOOKED at how much fan art there is of her?! Many fans seem to like her, and not just "shippers", either. There are plenty of fans who like her character, though admittedly many of them are female themselves.

I also think that given that Mona came first and was well-enough received to get a figure in the toy line, another female mutant character was inevitable. Venus was simply an attempt to "recreate" Mona in a different form. We'd already had Ninjara, as well, so a "marriage" of the two ideas (female reptile mutant + female ninja) made sense at the time. The fact that her backstory was completely ridiculous and contrived (and that she was a Mary Sue) was the fault of the writers and production staff, not the character concept itself.

Personally, I think that Venus could indeed be done WELL and work, and I actually like Indigo's idea with the "kid sister", or the random pet shop turtle in Chinatown getting mutated idea from TmNtRoX. Either could work well if written properly.

Not Mona's reception Duckie, Venus'. Mona's popular and awesome. Probably should have worded that better.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Ah. Okay, that makes more sense now. I know Mona also gets some flack from SOME fans just for being "shipping fodder", but I've never thought that was a good reason to dislike her. At least SHE had a decent backstory, that made sense! (I also like the "opposites attract" dynamic between her and Raph, so that's always made me like her, too!)

[GoldMutant]

It's all cool dudette. I honestly thought a lot of people were going to get pitch forks on me for this.

Anyways, I do like Mona Lisa, but my only gripe is her just having one appearance. If she had a few more, I'd like her more. Aw well, what can you do?

Anyways, back to the topic at hand, I think Venus could be portrayed a little older than the Turtles, just uninterested in anyone shipped with Venus. I guess I'm not too big on romance at times, but invested when it calls for it. Changing her animal is subjective, although I'd love an iguana, chameleon, or scorpion mutant down the line. Maybe make her more skilled in the arts, alongside soldier training?

I compared Venus to Scrappy mostly because of the Turtles being kind of useless 8 times out of 10 in Next Mutation, same with Scrappy kind of making Fred and Velma useless. All subjective on the characters, but I'd love to see them reinvented, Venus and Scrappy both deserve second chances.

[Wolfie65]

I kinda like the 'kid sister' idea.
They can't make her their age, that would lead to instant brother-on-brother war, since she's basically the only realistic way for any of them to reproduce, and even if they completely ignore that angle, the chances that they won't make into yet 'nuddah' butt-kicking Warrior Princess (TM) with more attitude than even Raph in a rage are, in our politically mega-correct Grrrl-powah times, nil.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

She doesn't maybe need to be a different animal, just not use magic.

[Unworthy tinker]

So, while this idea didn't involve her being an animal (or mutant for that matter), it's still an idea.

What if Venus came from a magical dimension, and was a kappa? So she arrived on Earth/in our dimension through an accident, but lost her magic in the process? She ends up in Japan (maybe Japan is kind of where things from that dimension would come from? Because it'd be various Yokai in that dimension, so kind of an in-universe explaination for myths like that) gets to New York because of someone in the Foot who wanted to use her for fighting. Then she runs off and goes good? *shrugs* I suck at explaining stuff.

[PangolinFeets]

Ooor what if she was older? Like a Leatherhead-type character that was stronger or bigger than the turtles and a powerful ally/rival. It's be cool if she was pitched as what they are working towards: A skilled, strong, stealthy master of ninjitsu.
At the very least, it'd be a drastically different take on Venus.