Amazing Spider-Man: Renew Your Vows-One More Chance

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

http://cbr1.imgix.net/wp-content/upl...nal-2-RGB2.jpg

Here's the new cover and solit for February's fourth issue

So the Mole-Man story is going to go for four issues? Was that a change, since I was under the impression that the opening story was going to be three?

[EDIT: Wait, it would have to be an extension, since they say as much in the ad. [smacks forehead] Wonder who had the idea to add the extra issue, Gerry Conway/Ryan Stegman or Marvel?]

Hope that it allows the story to breathe and be better and doesn't turn out to be unneeded padding. Of course, I cut my comic-reading teeth on the original Ultimate Spider-Man, which averaged six or seven issues a story, so I generally prefer longer stories anyways.

(This might explain the Sandman cover we were confused about. If they decided to extend the Mole-Man tale, then there would've been a time when Sandman would've been issue#4.)

The new cover looks good. Love Mole-Man's smug grin, although I'm still confused why he looks like a literal mole man on issue#2. Wonder if the scene is actually taken from the story, or made up to make a good cover?

Can't wait.

[ZariusTwo]

I suspect the four issue extension may have to do with cramming in more, encircling the main story with some flashbacks to what Peter, MJ, and Annie get up in daily life. We already got that covered with Peter and MJ together in the first issue, but issue two hints we'll see what goes on with MJ at her fashion store, and issue three indicates we see some of Annie's school life. That leaves the fourth issue to be a story where everyone gets to function together.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I suspect the four issue extension may have to do with cramming in more, encircling the main story with some flashbacks to what Peter, MJ, and Annie get up in daily life. We already got that covered with Peter and MJ together in the first issue, but issue two hints we'll see what goes on with MJ at her fashion store, and issue three indicates we see some of Annie's school life. That leaves the fourth issue to be a story where everyone gets to function together.

Hmm.

We'll have to wait for the actual issues to see how well it works out, but, on paper, I'm all for it. A lot of the Spider-Man stuff I find most memorable are the non-superhero parts, so bringing more of them in seems like a good call.

[WebLurker]

There's a new interview with Gerry Conway and Ryan Stegman online.

A few things we've heard before, but some new thoughts and comments. It's apparently on the table to place RYV's diversion from 616 ASM to before the '90s Clone Saga (which honestly makes sense to me, since Annie was born two years after Peter and MJ's marriage, which would mean that most of the married-years comics would've happened in a setting where they were parents instead of a childless couple).

Also, they've confirmed that the opening story arc is going to have one issue focusing on each Parker (#1 seems to be Peter's story, I'm gonna bet MJ is the star of #2, and Annie gets the spotlight in #3), with the final one being everything coming together (we may have already guessed that, but I like the sound of that structure). The Sandman story will be a one-issue story, as will the one after that. Then there will be a two-parter and a four or five parter. And somewhere down the line, there will be really big arc that'll unfold over months.

[ZariusTwo]

I kind of figured they would backtrack even more on some things happening and not happening...it makes sense not to give readers a potential excuse to just give up the mainstream Spider-Man title as the option of undoing OMD can still be used one day, where as if you went with this title having everything canon up until a certain point of divergence then it really just doesn't give 616 the chance to redeem it's Spider-Man.

Newsarama to their credit does bring up the idea fans could supplant the main book, and Conway says they can stand as equals.

Here's a pic of MJ swinging around...and yep, that's Normie alright, up to no good (spoilered for size)

Spoiler:

And an update on the symbiote picture Stegman posted on Twitter...it looks like forgotten 90s character Scream, either that or Venom's possessed MJ

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I kind of figured they would backtrack even more on some things happening and not happening...it makes sense not to give readers a potential excuse to just give up the mainstream Spider-Man title as the option of undoing OMD can still be used one day, where as if you went with this title having everything canon up until a certain point of divergence then it really just doesn't give 616 the chance to redeem it's Spider-Man.

I kind of wonder if you're reading a little too much into it. From the interview, it sounds like the changes to the timeline they're making are to serve the story they want to tell. (Of course, I do think the 616 Spider-Man series is beyond redemption at this point and would probably be a happy camper if RYV Spider-Man became the "real" one, so I may be seeing this differently than someone who has an emotional investment to the pre-OMD 616 Spider-Man.)

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Newsarama to their credit does bring up the idea fans could supplant the main book, and Conway says they can stand as equals.

While I'm no fan of the post-OMD Spider-Man and it's representation of the world and characters, I'm glad that they're taking a live and let live approach to it all. I've been hanging around online sources for a few fanbases I'm a part of, and many of them have been getting really vitriolic and toxic in regards to disagreement over what is the best way to handle the franchise and which version of it is the "correct" one, and all that. It gets really tiring and actually zaps my enjoyment of those franchises.

So, at this point, I just want to see RYV do well and stick around. While it would be somewhat satisfying to see it outdo Dan Slott's Spider-Man, I don't really think it's worth the energy to hope it does, if that makes any sense. I just want to enjoy my plate of pie and leave the rest of the buffet to those who're in the mood for it.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Here's a pic of MJ swinging around...and yep, that's Normie alright, up to no good (spoilered for size)

Spoiler:

http://www.newsarama.com/images/i/00...002010scol.jpg

Glad to see we'll be learning a little more about him, since the "Project G" thing they set up with him is really peaking my interest.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

And an update on the symbiote picture Stegman posted on Twitter...it looks like forgotten 90s character Scream, either that or Venom's possessed MJ

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cys9MngWQAAzPUZ.jpg

Huh. Not sure I'm a fan of the hair-like design, but I want to see it in full-color and in the context of the story before I decide for sure.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

I kind of wonder if you're reading a little too much into it. From the interview, it sounds like the changes to the timeline they're making are to serve the story they want to tell. (Of course, I do think the 616 Spider-Man series is beyond redemption at this point and would probably be a happy camper if RYV Spider-Man became the "real" one, so I may be seeing this differently than someone who has an emotional investment to the pre-OMD 616 Spider-Man.)

You're probably better off than I am. It's despairing to hear Marvel take more and more of an anti-continuity stance these days because we were so used to consistency on that level for so long and they make your journey and investment matter more. Continuity may be all over the place at DC, but there are certain anchors there that remind you of what came before so you let the convoluted stuff pass.

Marvel are kind of playing fast and loose with continuity...using it when it suits their story, but abandoning it to take a fresh approach (the ASM newspaper strip is routinely guilty of this). It can work, but for some stories that depend on character motivations being key to events and how they unfold, avoiding them can be a nightmare. RYV, for what it's worth, will be character driven, using continuity when it suits them, but letting the story be informed by the connections between Peter, MJ, and Annie, and if anything, regardless of how everything fits, that's what I desire the most from it.

I just want the JMS era to matter in a less than bittersweet manner. The only other option I have at this moment is to go with the One-Above-All's guarantee that Peter and MJ made it out of Civil War and had kids in the future.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

You're probably better off than I am. It's despairing to hear Marvel take more and more of an anti-continuity stance these days because we were so used to consistency on that level for so long and they make your journey and investment matter more. Continuity may be all over the place at DC, but there are certain anchors there that remind you of what came before so you let the convoluted stuff pass.

I like consistent continuity, but don't mind multiple continuities. To me, RYV was always an alternate continuity, not a representation of a non-OMD/Dan Slott/whatever 616, so I may have had different expectations going in.

Also, the fact that the Spider-Man comic series I originally followed was the Ultimate one affects my opinion. To me, USM was the "real thing" when it came to the comics, 616 was just another parallel reality story that's had increasingly little to do with Spider-Man as I know it. (Now, I do like other versions, like RYV, just as much as USM for varying reasons, but I will concede that I've never really needed 616 nor have I followed it, so I don't really mourn it's loss the way other people who have do.)

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Marvel are kind of playing fast and loose with continuity...using it when it suits their story, but abandoning it to take a fresh approach (the ASM newspaper strip is routinely guilty of this). It can work, but for some stories that depend on character motivations being key to events and how they unfold, avoiding them can be a nightmare.

I think they'd be better off writing more "out of continuity" stories. Comic book fans still like the movies, even if those take liberties with the source material. It would seem to follow that they'd enjoy reading stand-alone stories that didn't quite mesh if if that was part of the point and not an author retconing stuff at the drop of a hat.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

RYV, for what it's worth, will be character driven, using continuity when it suits them, but letting the story be informed by the connections between Peter, MJ, and Annie, and if anything, regardless of how everything fits, that's what I desire the most from it.

Sounds good. Besides, a good story can be written that fits with the past ones without mentioning every little detail about the past. (I'm becoming increasingly suspicious that the backup stories are not in canon with the main series, but I don't think that's a problem.)

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I just want the JMS era to matter in a less than bittersweet manner. The only other option I have at this moment is to go with the One-Above-All's guarantee that Peter and MJ made it out of Civil War and had kids in the future.

As I understand it, that has been officially declared to be the future of another universe than 616. If you ask me, though, a universe where the pre-OMD stuff happened and the OMD and the crap that followed didn't at all is preferable to the idea that those pre-OMD stories only happened in one universe and were erased by OMD, with the only hope being some hazy suggestion that things might ultimately work out in spite of the damage and only in some future that current Marvel management will never let happen.

(Funny thing is, according to the Marvel Wiki, there are quite a few universes in the Marvel multiverse where Peter and MJ get their happy ending -- or at least are on the way to it. Granted, some of these are only established as throwaway scenes in a larger story or are stand alones, or something, but they are there, and some of them were even published after OMD. So, not only is the post-OMD 616 iteration outnumbered, it doesn't seem to be needed to tell stories about that specific interpretation.)

[ZariusTwo]

So I was reading Clone Conspiracy#3 today, and besides the one big revelation, there was another moment that raised an eyebrow

Spoiler:

When Spider-Gwen tells Peter he's definitely nothing like the Peter of her own world, Peter says people have told him the same thing about him and this world

You'd think this was just some coy meta-commentary on people dissatisfied with present day continuity, but there's been several hints in other Marvel books since Secret Wars alluding to nothing being quite what it seems about reality.

Might be nothing, but I've been keeping score of all the little clues this year and this might be indeed another one.

[ZariusTwo]

Lettered preview for Renew Your Vows#2 featuring MJ kicking some ass and sharing her own thoughts on life in general with the reader

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-ma...usive-preview/

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Lettered preview for Renew Your Vows#2 featuring MJ kicking some ass and sharing her own thoughts on life in general with the reader

http://www.cbr.com/amazing-spider-ma...usive-preview/

While MJ doing superhero missions solo has got me really curious about the nuts and bolts of the family's teamwork arrangement (is there any coordination, since MJ and Peter are sharing the same power set, did she undergo any practice?, etc.), the scene works pretty well for character setup.

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

While MJ doing superhero missions solo has got me really curious about the nuts and bolts of the family's teamwork arrangement (is there any coordination, since MJ and Peter are sharing the same power set, did she undergo any practice?, etc.), the scene works pretty well for character setup.

See, this is why maintaining some continuity from 616 would be a good idea...in the issues before Civil War, MJ got some training from Captain America himself. I really hope in being selective with his world building Conway at least has it so Peter and MJ did live in Avengers Tower and she had that training.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

See, this is why maintaining some continuity from 616 would be a good idea...in the issues before Civil War, MJ got some training from Captain America himself. I really hope in being selective with his world building Conway at least has it so Peter and MJ did live in Avengers Tower and she had that training.

Conversely, I suppose Peter could've taught her a few things. I guess we'll have to see if and how that's addressed.

(Frankly, I think it's a higher priority to explain what did and did not happen in the original RYV miniseries and create a definitive version of that than to integrate 616 stuff into the mix, but I could be wrong about that.)

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

Conversely, I suppose Peter could've taught her a few things. I guess we'll have to see if and how that's addressed.

(Frankly, I think it's a higher priority to explain what did and did not happen in the original RYV miniseries and create a definitive version of that than to integrate 616 stuff into the mix, but I could be wrong about that.)

Maybe it's because MC2 made use of, at the time, "modern" 616 history to form part of it's narrative in addition to the classic backstory that I just want this to be the same way...again, I know you don't particularly care for 616 because of all the crap it's been subjected to, but I loved the JMS era and would want that to somewhat count. It's not a deal breaker for me if it does'nt count though. The jigsaw pieces are there, I'm just trying to make sense of them until new explanations are provided.

I've often thought one good idea for continuity divergence would be to have had MJ accept Peter's first marriage proposal back in the 70s, rather than reject it out of fear of commitment at the time.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Maybe it's because MC2 made use of, at the time, "modern" 616 history to form part of it's narrative in addition to the classic backstory that I just want this to be the same way...again,

I wouldn't blame you for that. If the 616 comics were the first ones I encountered, instead of the Ultimate ones, I'd probably feel the same way. In fact, I'd like to see "Kraven's Last Hunt" and the preceding issues be part of the RYV world. I guess my biases is that the current setting of the RYV comics (street-level, blue-collar Spider-Man, Peter and Mary Jane as a couple, etc.), is pretty much where I tend to think of the story beginning, so I don't need to see how we got there.

Conversely, if Conway pinpointed an exact divergence point, I wouldn't complain, either. The pros of establishing that some of the 616 comics also happened in the RYV world also means that that series retroactively obtained more issues.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I know you don't particularly care for 616 because of all the crap it's been subjected to, but I loved the JMS era and would want that to somewhat count.

Personally, I wouldn't mind reading some of the stuff between the marriage issue and OMD 616 comics (a good story is a good story regardless of how it stacks up canonically speaking) and JMS's material would be on that list, given that I've heard generally good things about it.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

It's not a deal breaker for me if it does'nt count though. The jigsaw pieces are there, I'm just trying to make sense of them until new explanations are provided.

Makes sense. Given how messy the RYV background is, some clarifications would be welcome.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

I've often thought one good idea for continuity divergence would be to have had MJ accept Peter's first marriage proposal back in the 70s, rather than reject it out of fear of commitment at the time.

What about that point would make it a good storytelling vehicle to turn left, so to speak?

[ZariusTwo]

Here's the top ten for November sales overall. Marvel steadily starting to regain ground now, with Rebirth represented only by the Bat-Books. Good news for Renew Your Vows also, as both it and Venom easily trounce Clone Conspiracy b.s to take some top spots.

1. BATMAN #10 (DC) 2. BATMAN #11 (DC)
3. CIVIL WAR II #7 (MAR)
4. ALL STAR BATMAN #4 (DC)
5. INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1 (MAR)
6. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #1 (MAR)
7. BATMAN ANNUAL #1 (DC)
8. VENOM #1 (MAR)
9. THE WALKING DEAD #160 (MR) (IMA)
10. IVX #0 (MAR)

http://www.newsarama.com/32311-batma...ook-sales.html

Originally Posted by WebLurker

What about that point would make it a good storytelling vehicle to turn left, so to speak?

Generally because of the storyline circumstances at the time. Shortly after MJ rejected Peter's proposal, dropped out of college and moved away to pursue other interests, Aunt May "died" for a short time...with it being eventually revealed she'd just been kidnapped and used in a scheme by Mysterio and Uncle Ben's killer who were after something in her possession that was worth something. This story culminates in ASM#200 with Peter confronting the Burgler one more time, with the Burgler dying at the conclusion, and Peter reunites with Aunt May.

I was thinking that if MJ had married Peter around this time instead of leaving, one idea would have been to have May die for real instead of just being a prisoner, and Peter would confront the Burgler over that, but would refrain from exacting revenge even if he still caused his death (the Burgler died from a shock heart attack when Peter revealed his identity to him) and Peter would then just move on from that with MJ and have Annie.

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Here's the top ten for November sales overall. Marvel steadily starting to regain ground now, with Rebirth represented only by the Bat-Books. Good news for Renew Your Vows also, as both it and Venom easily trounce Clone Conspiracy b.s to take some top spots.

1. BATMAN #10 (DC) 2. BATMAN #11 (DC)
3. CIVIL WAR II #7 (MAR)
4. ALL STAR BATMAN #4 (DC)
5. INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #1 (MAR)
6. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: RENEW YOUR VOWS #1 (MAR)
7. BATMAN ANNUAL #1 (DC)
8. VENOM #1 (MAR)
9. THE WALKING DEAD #160 (MR) (IMA)
10. IVX #0 (MAR)

http://www.newsarama.com/32311-batma...ook-sales.html

Okay, nice to see RYV have a solid start. Hopefully it can keep it up long-term, esp. when the "Clone" story ends.

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Generally because of the storyline circumstances at the time. Shortly after MJ rejected Peter's proposal, dropped out of college and moved away to pursue other interests, Aunt May "died" for a short time...with it being eventually revealed she'd just been kidnapped and used in a scheme by Mysterio and Uncle Ben's killer who were after something in her possession that was worth something. This story culminates in ASM#200 with Peter confronting the Burgler one more time, with the Burgler dying at the conclusion, and Peter reunites with Aunt May.

I was thinking that if MJ had married Peter around this time instead of leaving, one idea would have been to have May die for real instead of just being a prisoner, and Peter would confront the Burgler over that, but would refrain from exacting revenge even if he still caused his death (the Burgler died from a shock heart attack when Peter revealed his identity to him) and Peter would then just move on from that with MJ and have Annie.

Okay.

I didn't know that they toyed with the idea of May dying before the '90s. I did recall hearing somewhere that Spider-Man found Dennis Carradine again, but didn't know the details.

Not sure I would've thought that to be a good point to change the proposal answer, but then, I did see an essay speculating that both Peter and MJ weren't ready for marriage then, specifically pointing out that Peter hadn't told MJ about his superhero career and that MJ knew he was lying to her about that.

While that may just be fan speculation, I did see a bit of the comic where MJ outright told Peter she knew his secret. As I recall, she was very hurt by the admission, feeling that he didn't trust her and still saw her as the shallow person she'd presented herself as in the past. At any rate, it does make you wonder if they would've had a rockier start had they tried to make a go of it at that point?

[ZariusTwo]

Originally Posted by WebLurker

While that may just be fan speculation, I did see a bit of the comic where MJ outright told Peter she knew his secret. As I recall, she was very hurt by the admission, feeling that he didn't trust her and still saw her as the shallow person she'd presented herself as in the past. At any rate, it does make you wonder if they would've had a rockier start had they tried to make a go of it at that point?

Yeah, apparently it was very much a rockier path in the newspaper strip...MJ did'nt know Peter was Spider-Man in that until he confessed his identity to her a year before the marriage, and MJ wasn't sure if she wanted to be tied down with a "freak". Harsh.

[ZariusTwo]

Here's the overall top 100 for the month of November

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/...oys-and-girls/

So Renew Your Vows is the only Peter Parker-led Spider-Man title in the overall top TWENTY, let alone top TEN. That does not bode well for the main book, the Clone Conspiracy and it's tie-ins have had to settle for 23rd and 28th place

[WebLurker]

Originally Posted by ZariusTwo

Here's the overall top 100 for the month of November

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/...oys-and-girls/

So Renew Your Vows is the only Peter Parker-led Spider-Man title in the overall top TWENTY, let alone top TEN. That does not bode well for the main book, the Clone Conspiracy and it's tie-ins have had to settle for 23rd and 28th place

Wow, that's a bit of a drop from 11th place last month. Wonder if Slott will turn it around or if Clone Conspiracy was always DOA.

Anyways, nice to see RYV have a solid start, esp. since it was trailing being the Nov. Clone Conspiracy issues before.