Ninjutsu or Japanese martial arts?

[CyberCubed]

The Turtles just do typical Americanized kung fu fighting. Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman had no idea about martial arts outside of Bruce Lee movies.

You're talking about two mid-western writers who have no idea about anything of Asian culture. Pete and Kevin never post anything about Asian stuff, all they know is the Hollywood version.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The Turtles just do typical Americanized kung fu fighting. Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman had no idea about martial arts outside of Bruce Lee movies.

You're talking about two mid-western writers who have no idea about anything of Asian culture. Pete and Kevin never post anything about Asian stuff, all they know is the Hollywood version.

Funny thing is, TMNT was my first exposure to Japanese stuff through pop culture. First property I got into that had the words ninja and sensei in it and also references to martial arts, sushi, etc. TMNT 1987 was probably the first ever major American cartoon series to have Japanese related stuff in it, even if just shallow and not so accurate. This was several years before the anime boom in North America and DBZ hitting it big in the West as a whole.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT also came before the whole anime craze, so Peter/Kevin knew nothing about Japanese culture outside of Hollywood movies.

Imagine if TMNT was created a decade later and Peter/Kevin were anime weeabo's? Ahahahahah.

[Prowler]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

TMNT also came before the whole anime craze, so Peter/Kevin knew nothing about Japanese culture outside of Hollywood movies.

Imagine if TMNT was created a decade later and Peter/Kevin were anime weeabo's? Ahahahahah.

Well 2k3 is more anime influenced. It's subtle but less so in the Ninja Tribunal season.

[Konchadunga]

For what it's worth, martial arts evolve; not just on in fiction but in real-life, too. Depending on whether there's a war going on, they will likely be less or more interested in teaching people to kill vs just avoid being killed. If a society is very peaceful and safe, they might prioritize clean, regulated techniques for use only in the ring, while if there are still muggers and the like, they'll be more interested in training people to expect the unexpected.

I don't train in martial arts, but I read about them from time to time, and apparently while Karate is usually thought of as a striking art while Judo is a grappling art, now the two have blurred together a bit more, since from a self-defense angle, people need to be ready for anything. You can't aptly defend yourself by punching and kicking against somebody trained to grab your limbs, and conversely learning to grapple isn't necessarily going to help defend you against anyone who might grapple back, since in that case "stun and run" doesn't apply and it becomes more of a clasped wrestling match, but without the regulations to keep you from getting truly harmed. Thus, the blurring. Likewise, how to defend against a handgun wasn't part of the original teaching of many martial arts, but it is now.

[Candy Kappa]

Guns aren't really a new thing in Japan, they had muskets in the 1550s. Shinobi was really into techniques on how to utilize the musket from a barrel cleaning bullet to being able to fire two shots without reloading. Hangrenades, mines, fire bombs, ninjas love their explosives.

[Tetsu Deinonychus]

Originally Posted by Kendamu

Even then, the modern Ninpo guys learn both Bujutsu and Ninjutsu so it's not weird that the Turtles know how to fight face-to-face. Even the historical Ninja did some face-to-face fighting once an ambush was set in motion and there was chaos everywhere.

Oh, I wouldn't mean to elemiminate face-to-face fighting completely. I agree that it's also part of Ninjutsu, but it would be cool to see the Turtles rely on it less and less as they master the Stealth arts more.

Imagine the classic "Leo decapitates Shredder" moment being the result of a deadly cat and mouse game with each of them hiding in the shadows waiting for an opening, trying to lure the other out until finally Leo sees his opportunity and cuts Shredder down from behind. I'd prefer that over the same old direct sword fight.

Or, when fighting Triceratons, maybe they find that flying kicks and melee weapons aren't that effective against a hoard of giant muscular alien dinosaur men with ray-guns. But, when they start hiding and ambushing them, or sniping them from a distance with shuriken and poison darts and Triceraton ray-guns while Don hacks and sabotages their ships they make short work of them.

And, in battle, it would be neat to see them use more blinding powder and caltrops, and shuriken, etc. They might even finally give a reason for both their eye-masks and the Foot Ninja "bug-eye" masks by implying that they have lenses to protect them from blinding powder, smoke bombs, etc.

It could even be the reason Splinter needs the Turtles to kill Shredder for him. Let's say that the Shredder excels both at stealth tactics and direct combat. Splinter is a master of Stealth tactics but at his age, is no longer able to fight directly at a level comparable to Shredder. The Turtles, by contrast are gifted fighters who have mastered Taijutsu and weapon arts, but (at first) are unskilled at Ninja stealth and strategy, but if Splinter can get them to master that as well they'll be a match for him, and can finally defeat him.

Originally Posted by Kendamu

I suppose the Turtles could always learn Ninja magic, I guess. A lot of people would think the Turtles were ripping off Naruto, but that style of Ninja magic in Japanese film has actually been around for a really long time. It's not like Kishimoto invented it.

Yeah, but Naruto takes it too far, I think. If the TMNT are too often more like Karateka/Samurai who call themselves Ninja, then the Naruto characters are more like flat-out wizards who call themselves Ninja. "Ninja magic" is fine, but I'd like it to be more subtle than in Naruto.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

The Turtles just do typical Americanized kung fu fighting. Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman had no idea about martial arts outside of Bruce Lee movies.

You're talking about two mid-western writers who have no idea about anything of Asian culture. Pete and Kevin never post anything about Asian stuff, all they know is the Hollywood version.

New England (I think) not mid-western, but yeah that's true. That's how they started out, but that doesn't mean that future versions have to stick to that. I doubt Viacom would ever make it, but I would love to see a version that makes full use of the Ninja concept like the ideas I've posted above.

[Candy Kappa]

That's a great explanation for the Foot's iconic bug eyes