Sonic Boom TV Series

[Wildcat]

Still have not seen this (Dish/Turner dispute still on). I know the first episodes are on YouTube but still holding out so I can see it on my TV.

I have SatAm on DVD. Good show, especially for that time. The creators wanted to do more but didn't get too. Still it all ended up in the comics I assume. I lost track of the comics.

Underground was pretty cool. Its unfortunate it never got a proper ending. Although again I think there is in the comics.

Have not gotten the game yet but just briefly checked out GameSpot's and IGNs reviews for the sake it. I KNEW they would both give it bad reviews. They have been so biased against Sonic for a long time. Except maybe for Colors or Generations. Anything not Super Fast Sonic = crap to them.

How pathetic is it they both used the same tagline pun with "Sonic Booo..." I wonder who copied who, lol.

[Sumac]

Guess what, that's not what nostalgia means, either.
People use the good Sonic games as a standard for what a good Sonic game is like. If a Sonic game doesn't meet that standard, it's not a good Sonic game.
This should be common sense.

I don't deny that there could be legal reasons for hating new games, but more often then not, fans of the old games approaches new ones with stance: this game is not like ones we played in our childhood, that's why its bad. It has nothing to do with actual quality, but all about nostalgia. There is not an ounce of common sense in such approach, in my opinion.

Also, holding games released after more than 15 years after originals, to the same standard is kind of...stupid. Once again, it's not about quality, but approach of developers to the gameplay and genre.

Lol what the f*ck is this nonsense?

You wouldn't understand, LOL.

[Netkeeper]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I don't deny that there could be legal reasons for hating new games, but more often then not, fans of the old games approaches new ones with stance: this game is not like ones we played in our childhood, that's why its bad. It has nothing to do with actual quality, but all about nostalgia. There is not an ounce of common sense in such approach, in my opinion.

Also, holding games released after more than 15 years after originals, to the same standard is kind of...stupid. Once again, it's not about quality, but approach of developers to the gameplay and genre.

Legal reasons? What the hell? I never said anything about any legal reasons for hating new games. I don't know where that came from. Is English your first language? [I don't mean to ask this in any demeaning manner, I'm legitimately asking.]

I'm not saying the "nostalgic" approach is the common sense approach. I'm saying that holding the good games, regardless of age, as a standard, is the common sense approach. Like holy ****, are we not speaking the same language here? You seem to be taking everything I say and twisting it.

It isn't stupid to hold the originals to the same standard. If they could make a good game once, they can do it again.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by Sumac

I don't deny that there could be legal reasons for hating new games, but more often then not, fans of the old games approaches new ones with stance: this game is not like ones we played in our childhood, that's why its bad. It has nothing to do with actual quality, but all about nostalgia. There is not an ounce of common sense in such approach, in my opinion.

Also, holding games released after more than 15 years after originals, to the same standard is kind of...stupid. Once again, it's not about quality, but approach of developers to the gameplay and genre.


You wouldn't understand, LOL.

Alright. So clearly you know f*ck all about games. Noted.

You're so incredibly off-base that I have to admit I've never seen someone this delusional about something in a long time. Well done.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Feck. I only have Vol. 2 of Underground. I saw Vol. 1, said, "Eh, I got a ton of stuff today, it'll be here next weekend," and it wasn't. I think I need the last volume of AoStH too, but I gotta check.

Yeah, SatAM could've been more like the games, but I feel like they prioritized telling a specific story over literal game-accuracy, and for what it's worth I liked it. I would have liked to see Season 3. I get how it was a bit too self-serious for some folks, but when it came out I was at an age where I was getting more into that kind of show. I should re-watch that one of these days.

I liked the show as a child, even though I only saw season one on rte two in 1994 when I was 8. I watched the entire series for the first time on pop in 2006 and I thought it was a decent cartoon at that time. However, when I got the dvd box set in 2011 and watched it again, I didn't like most of the episodes anymore for some reason. I re-read Sonic the Comic and it was absorbing reading (Satam's storytelling was boring in comparison).

Satam is the type of show that gets worse each time I watch it. I didn't like Sonic's personality in season two (I preferred him in season one). I also didn't like Sally having to bail Sonic most of the time in that season or her attitude towards him). There were some good life lessons in episodes such as "Ultra Sonic", "Sonic's Nightmare" and "Hooked on Sonics", but there were also some bad ones in "Game Guy", "Sonic and Sally" and "Sonic Boom".

I disliked Sally being cautious all the time. Sometimes, I think one has to take risks. Sonic's egotism and foolishness became exaggerated in season two. It's clear that the writers of that season weren't fans of the hedgehog. At least in one, Sonic was somewhat intelligent with a natural flair for cunning plans (he was more like his STC incarnation in that season). I didn't like the way Tails and Antoine were portrayed (they were helpless characters most of the time). I think "Blast to the Past" is the worst episode of the series thanks to the numerous plot holes it introduced.

Satam isn't really dark anyway. It's a fake darkness (similar to the Red Sky seasons of tmnt 1987). In "Sonic Conversion", Uncle Chuck told Sonic that robotised people remember everything but he didn't seem that bothered about it. I know the creators cared about the show, but they seemed to be only interested in telling their own original story without taking inspiration from the games at the time. Nigel Kitching managed to tell his own story and used elements from the games in STC.

[Sumac]

Legal reasons?

Sorry, I meant to say "real reasons".
And, no, English is not my first language.

I'm saying that holding the good games, regardless of age, as a standard, is the common sense approach. It isn't stupid to hold the originals to the same standard. If they could make a good game once, they can do it again.

Definition of "good" can change depending on the technology and generation of gamers.

I believe that comparing every single game to the 2D platformer that has been released more than 20 years ago...is rather questionable method to determine quality of the new game.

I encountered a lot of so-called "old school fans", who judged every product in the series by comparing how much it was like games they've been playing in their childhood. In their case it was not about quality, but about presentation and "soul". Which is rather...awkward measure, to say the least. This can be summed as "not muh [insert whatever old game from whatever old series you want]". This I do not consider proper approach to reviewing anything.

Alright. So clearly you know f*ck all about games. Noted.
You're so incredibly off-base that I have to admit I've never seen someone this delusional about something in a long time. Well done.

I wonder are you one of those "old-school" fans who always painfully react, when somedoy call on their laughable ******** or just somebody who is deliberately blind to reality of things?

I've been part of few fan communities devoted to several old series and gaming in general, so I know what I am talking about. Denying exsitence of such things is rather strange...but it's not the first time, when I met people who believe that there is no issues with fan commuinities, whatsoever. Some humans...never cease to amaze me.

[Peanut]

What are you even talking about, kid? Nostalgia goggles exist and no one is denying that. However, claiming the only reason people think newer Sonic games are bad is because of nostalgia for the original games is deluded and uniformed to an insane degree.

[Leo656]

I tried really hard to like Sonic Unleashed. I went into it determined to like it just to spite the critics. I really did. I still haven't finished it; there's good stuff in it, but the Bad stuff is SO BAD that I really wanted to commit a violent crime towards my game disc by the end. Like every problem every Sonic game ever had all taken to the Nth degree. It's So Bad.

So anyways, it's not a "nostalgia"-related issue. A ton of the Sonic games after Sonic Heroes were just plain poorly made. I mean, hey, I'm a bigger "apologist" than most people, because I actually enjoy the Sonic Adventure series and didn't think Heroes was a bad side-game to the main series, while most of what you hear from folks is, "Nothing after Sonic & Knuckles is any good". I completely disagree with that statement, BUT, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that, because most of the games, even the "better" ones, are For Devoted Fans Only, and even then, it's more like a trial to prove your Fan-Cred by completing the game rather than anything resembling fun. Like I said, I'm a fan of the series in general and in theory, but saying people are blinded by nostalgia is false. The games have just been sloppy as hell.

Generations is pretty great, though.

[oldmanwinters]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Generations is pretty great, though.

Man, my kingdom for a Wii U port.

[Wesley]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I tried really hard to like Sonic Unleashed. I went into it determined to like it just to spite the critics. I really did. I still haven't finished it; there's good stuff in it, but the Bad stuff is SO BAD that I really wanted to commit a violent crime towards my game disc by the end. Like every problem every Sonic game ever had all taken to the Nth degree. It's So Bad.

So anyways, it's not a "nostalgia"-related issue. A ton of the Sonic games after Sonic Heroes were just plain poorly made. I mean, hey, I'm a bigger "apologist" than most people, because I actually enjoy the Sonic Adventure series and didn't think Heroes was a bad side-game to the main series, while most of what you hear from folks is, "Nothing after Sonic & Knuckles is any good". I completely disagree with that statement, BUT, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that, because most of the games, even the "better" ones, are For Devoted Fans Only, and even then, it's more like a trial to prove your Fan-Cred by completing the game rather than anything resembling fun. Like I said, I'm a fan of the series in general and in theory, but saying people are blinded by nostalgia is false. The games have just been sloppy as hell.

Generations is pretty great, though.

I think the old Mega Drive/Genesis games were the best. I liked the Sonic Adventure and Sonic Advance series as well. I thought Sonic Heroes was rubbish and I only finished Team Rose's story. Shadow the Hedgehog had a lot of problems, but I still enjoyed it more than Heroes.

I hated Secret Rings and Unleashed. The gameplay was terrible, in my opinion. I kinda liked Colors, but some of the plat forming was too hard for me. I loved Chronicles. The 3DS version of Generations was the last Sonic game I played. I didn't like the gameplay because there was too much focus on speed.

[DarkFell]

Originally Posted by Leo656

I tried really hard to like Sonic Unleashed. I went into it determined to like it just to spite the critics. I really did. I still haven't finished it; there's good stuff in it, but the Bad stuff is SO BAD that I really wanted to commit a violent crime towards my game disc by the end. Like every problem every Sonic game ever had all taken to the Nth degree. It's So Bad.

So anyways, it's not a "nostalgia"-related issue. A ton of the Sonic games after Sonic Heroes were just plain poorly made. I mean, hey, I'm a bigger "apologist" than most people, because I actually enjoy the Sonic Adventure series and didn't think Heroes was a bad side-game to the main series, while most of what you hear from folks is, "Nothing after Sonic & Knuckles is any good". I completely disagree with that statement, BUT, anyone could be forgiven for thinking that, because most of the games, even the "better" ones, are For Devoted Fans Only, and even then, it's more like a trial to prove your Fan-Cred by completing the game rather than anything resembling fun. Like I said, I'm a fan of the series in general and in theory, but saying people are blinded by nostalgia is false. The games have just been sloppy as hell.

Generations is pretty great, though.

I actually had Unleashed before some a-holes recently got into my place and stoled my games along with lots of my other goods. Unleashed wasn't a total sh*t bomb and neither was Shadow the Hedgehog but I will confess that both games do take some getting used to. I still have my brain wired to playing lots of left-to-right side scrolling games. So like any good hearted newb, I haven't gotten the total feel for playing the latter to newer Sonic games just yet.

However, I want to play Generations someday.

[BabyTurtles]

What makes a good sonic game anyways???

My first sonic game was a side scroller....I think it was Sonic advance....or something.

I don't really like the 3D sonic games...cause running seems so annoying to me...It's easier to see what's going on when it's side scrolling.

[Leo656]

Re: "Unleashed"

You cannot have a 3D platformer where the camera spazzes uncontrollably during an impossible jumping section AND your character doesn't even cast a goddamn shadow underneath you. That's a pretty hard rule. I had some definite fun playing Unleashed, but the Not Fun was so, SO not fun. There are only a few games I've ever played where I flat-out swore, "I am never touching this again", but that was one of them. Which sucks, because the stuff I liked, I really liked.

Also: Designing a section where you have to run at full-speed along a wall as if magnetized to it, which only works if you magically adjust both the control stick and the camera **exactlyrightatthesametime**, and also there are spikes you have to jump over at just the right time but jumping breaks your momentum, unsticking you from the wall and sending you flying off into the abyss, unless you angle it **justright** so you don't accidentally plow into the wall straight ahead of you, in a game where the controls only do what you want them to 80% of the time as it is?

That's never a good idea and I literally want to beat to death whoever was responsible for it.

[DarkFell]

Okay, I can see some good points with your argument Leo.
I thought that I was playing like a newb in those games. :p
I somehow beat Shadow just to get the Heal Cannon.

[Leo656]

To be fair, on the whole, my time with the game was about 70/30. 70% having fun, 30% not. But that 30% was overwhelming.

Some of the stuff I really did like ended up in a few of the levels for Generations, though, so some good came from it.

I never played the Shadow game. I've read about it, and it seems odd that a game most people wouldn't likely finish once has enough endings for, like, a dozen playthroughs. I plan on getting to it one day for one of my "Play A Bunch Of Old Crap" weekends since it's like, three bucks used. But I don't think I'm gonna even try to "complete" it. I'll probably finish it once but that's it; I've heard awful things.

[Peanut]

No game has yet to prove Sonic will ever work in 3D, and 2D Sonic simply has not stood the test of time. That's the issue facing Sonic Team and Sega.

Sonic Generations was the closest they've gotten to making a good Sonic game in 10 years and that fell apart in the end.

[CyberCubed]

Its hard to believe we've gotten so many terrible Sonic games since 1999:

Sonic Adventure
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sonic '06
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Sonic and the Black Knight
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic: Lost World
Sonic Boom


Sonic Generations, and the Sonic Advance/DS games were the only decent ones.

[Peanut]

Lost World is fine. It's not great, or even good, but it's not actively on fire like most of the games you listed.

Still amazed people think the Adventure series was good. It has a weird charm, but those games are baaaad.

[Netkeeper]

I enjoyed Black Knight. It had its bad moments, but I overall liked it.

Secret Rings was ****ing garbage, though.

[sdp]

Well having been a big Sonic fan I thought I'd comment since we're discussing Sonic in general.

Sonic Boom? The show I'll eventually check out doesn't seem like my cup of tea but might be a decent kids show, who knows. The game? Haven't played it and probably won't for many years but it appears to be a buggy mess, I've been reading some behind the scenes stuff and apparently this game's development was a huge mess, a shame since they really could've somehow made Sonic big again with a redesign/reboot had more work into it. From what I've seen this is a game something strictly little kids who love Sonic or adults with emotional attachment to the character can enjoy.

As far as Sonic's past shows, AOSTH is decent slaptstick fun, SatAM is overrated but good for its time, Underground is pretty bad since its not as fun as AOSTH and not as interesting as SaTAM so instead of being a nice balance it ends up being the worst of both shows. Sonic X was alright.

As far as past Sonic games I like to think of them as most Playstation games, good for their era but they didn't age as well as the Nintendo games of that era, in this case Mario. Being his rival are some big shoes to fill and at the time the Sonic games offered something different so epic Mario vs Sonic fights were definitely logical in the playground but looking back at them they really weren't as good as Mario games. You can also see that many things people accuse Sega now happened back then as well only it is now seen as the "golden era" so people don't even think about it but Sonic was whored out in as many games possible, had yearly games and introduced ****** friends in each new game

Sonic still has that "cool" factor so many kids still like him and those kids are grown ups now and defend the newer ****** games as well. As far as the 3D sonic games, I haven't played much or any of them in 8 years or so but the Adventure/Heroes series definitely have plenty of flaws and when compared to Mario 3D games they're terrible but they're decent and I enjoy them same with the Advanced/DS games. What most people complained back then was they wanted only sonic levels and we got Heroes/Shadow but people still complained and that's because the other segments helped the Sonic segments not be so boring and unique/fun and without that we started seeing the flaws. Still to this day I think Shadow the Hedgehog is the best 3D Sonic game I've played. After that I've only played a little of the others or haven't played them. The Spin-off Secret Rings Wii game was alright, unleashed seemed like another Sonic game but "werehog" Sonic to have something different and avoid the problems Heroes/Shadow had.

I do think the internet mostly exaggerates how ****** Sonic games are but its true that Sonic is seen as Mario's mascot and Sonic's games aren't the quality of Mario and that's what they're compared to, the fact that most games just aren't polished doesn't help them at all. The current Sonic design is as tainted as the SW Prequels or Scrappy from Scooby is which is why it needs a re-design, the "hip" redesign Sonic has now is over 10 years old now, a new image would've helped his credibility and maybe fans would've given it a chance but counting how Sonic Boom is going they just failed at it so they'll continue using the old redesign for a while.

guilty pleasure of mine: I always liked Sonic's sh*tty friends.