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Old 11-01-2016, 03:04 PM   #81
CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy
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Eventually, maybe. But them being in the next (rebooted) movie would be like if Nolan had made Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy the villains of Batman Begins... ass backwards.

Bebop and Rocksteady are quintessentially stupid, created for stupid lowbrow laughs and plus so Playmates could sell a rhino and warthog toy next to the Turtles. I don't mean stupid as in, "What dumb characters they are," I mean stupid is their whole schtick. That's what they trade on, and their "look." You know, just putzing around, occasionally mumbling about "da toitles" while they fall down and hurt themselves. Doing them "well," you'd have to stick with that. Making them into super serious, dangerous muscle killers or something... you CAN do that, but #1: That is emphatically NOT who they are or what they're about, you are now actively warping them to be something else and if you ARE going to do that, then... #2: Why use them at all? Just raw nostalgia for the toys or Fred Wolf cartoon? That's not an answer and that's not good enough, and by this point Fred Wolf has had more than enough "nods." Enough for a lifetime.
Ah, okay. Yeah, they definitely shouldn't (and probably won't... barring further hacks like Bay running the cinematic arm of the franchise) appear in the initial reboot.

As far as "if we change them in new iterations, what's the point", why SHOULDN'T characters be improved and revamped? Hell, there's NOTHING good in the Fred Wolf cartoon EXCEPT initial concepts: Technodrome, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, Slash, etc.

Hundreds of characters and stories get improved all the time. To your example, Mister Freeze was just a dumb ice-themed villain until Batman TAS improved the character and rebranded him as a tragic figure trying to cure his terminally ill wife.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:36 PM   #82
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To your example, Mister Freeze was just a dumb ice-themed villain until Batman TAS improved the character and rebranded him as a tragic figure trying to cure his terminally ill wife.
Sure, but there was at least some big kernel within him that made that worthwhile. He's a scary dude with sunglasses and a big gun going around f***ing freezing people. Later on they added the sympathetic backstory from TAS, sure, but he was worth the investment.

Now, Bebop, Rocksteady? Um... I guess they're, uh, strong? Good at holding Krang blasters and missing a lot? Drawing a blank here on anything unique or endearing about them beyond their look to warrant any investment.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:41 PM   #83
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Sure, but there was at least some big kernel within him that made that worthwhile. He's a scary dude with sunglasses and a big gun going around f***ing freezing people. Later on they added the sympathetic backstory from TAS, sure, but he was worth the investment.

Now, Bebop, Rocksteady? Um... I guess they're, uh, strong? Good at holding Krang blasters and missing a lot? Drawing a blank here on anything unique or endearing about them beyond their look to warrant any investment.
Now, see, this is just your personal prejudice speaking. And I get it.

But big dumb brutes with iconic designs have as much material for improvement as does a guy wearing a fish bowl and sunglasses with a freeze gun. It's all raw material in the end.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:50 PM   #84
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I reeeealy need to get around to reading the IDW Comics. I'm currently still reading Image Volume 3. Volume 4 after that then straight into IDW.
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Old 11-01-2016, 03:57 PM   #85
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Sure, but there was at least some big kernel within him that made that worthwhile. He's a scary dude with sunglasses and a big gun going around f***ing freezing people. Later on they added the sympathetic backstory from TAS, sure, but he was worth the investment.

Now, Bebop, Rocksteady? Um... I guess they're, uh, strong? Good at holding Krang blasters and missing a lot? Drawing a blank here on anything unique or endearing about them beyond their look to warrant any investment.
Yeah, Bebop and Rocksteady do suck pretty hard, I'm not really finding much to disagree with here. They were pointless in the Fred Wolf cartoon, they were pointless in the Archie series, they are pointless in the Nickelodeon cartoon and being largely annoying in all those versions isn't exactly helping them.

The most compelling they have ever been is the micro and mini IDW published, but in the main series they're just an excuse for Hulk-style brawls. They could easily be replaced by other characters and it wouldn't make a difference, after the mini they seem to have been put on hold for now.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:28 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy View Post
As far as "if we change them in new iterations, what's the point", why SHOULDN'T characters be improved and revamped? Hell, there's NOTHING good in the Fred Wolf cartoon EXCEPT initial concepts: Technodrome, Krang, Bebop, Rocksteady, Slash, etc.
The original cartoon had a lot of great episodes and concepts and captured its audience well.

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Yeah, Bebop and Rocksteady do suck pretty hard, I'm not really finding much to disagree with here. They were pointless in the Fred Wolf cartoon, they were pointless in the Archie series, they are pointless in the Nickelodeon cartoon and being largely annoying in all those versions isn't exactly helping them.
By that logic then what do replacing Bebop/Rocksteady with other mutants serve? We've already seen it with Rahzar/Tokka in the second movie, then Dogpound/Fishface in the Nick show, then Bludgeon/Koya in IDW (kinda), and they all serve the same purpose.

So if they were to axe Bebop/Rocksteady, as we have already seen....we just get rather similar mutant duos anyway.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:32 PM   #87
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The original cartoon had a lot of great episodes and concepts and captured its audience well.



By that logic then what do replacing Bebop/Rocksteady with other mutants serve? We've already seen it with Rahzar/Tokka in the second movie, then Dogpound/Fishface in the Nick show, then Bludgeon/Koya in IDW (kinda), and they all serve the same purpose.

So if they were to axe Bebop/Rocksteady, as we have already seen....we just get rather similar mutant duos anyway.
I wanna see the Mutanimals in a movie.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:38 PM   #88
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The reason the first movie performed moderately well was because it was the first live action TMNT movie in 20 years, so we were curious to see a $100MM Turtle movie.

After seeing how craptastic is was, it's no surprise the second movie flopped. I only went to see the spectacle of Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang/the Technodrome on screen for the first time. The movie itself was trite.

What needs to happen in a complete reboot of the TMNT movie franchise, and hire a writer who at least knows that Mirage came first and watched Steve Barron's movie.

Hell, I'd be fine if Ciro wrote a movie.

Hollywood wants to see a successful TMNT movie?

Give it a $50-$75MM, scale back the nonsense, and adapt the first 3 issues and Raph micro as a trilogy. Kill Saki, let Baxter have his go, end it all with the Turtles in the transmat, and depending on the success of the three movies then kick off another set adapting Turtles in space.

Hellfire, even bring in Krang and the Technodrome as a rogue Oot wanting to cleanse the galaxy of anything Triceraton, including Earth for one time being home to ceratopsians or something.

Viacom could hire a group of us for pennies on the dollar and togethere we'd pound out a better TMNT movie than PD and their group of somehow-successful hacks.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:44 PM   #89
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The reason the first movie performed moderately well was because it was the first live action TMNT movie in 20 years, so we were curious to see a $100MM Turtle movie.

After seeing how craptastic is was, it's no surprise the second movie flopped. I only went to see the spectacle of Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang/the Technodrome on screen for the first time. The movie itself was trite.

What needs to happen in a complete reboot of the TMNT movie franchise, and hire a writer who at least knows that Mirage came first and watched Steve Barron's movie.

Hell, I'd be fine if Ciro wrote a movie.

Hollywood wants to see a successful TMNT movie?

Give it a $50-$75MM, scale back the nonsense, and adapt the first 3 issues and Raph micro as a trilogy. Kill Saki, let Baxter have his go, end it all with the Turtles in the transmat, and depending on the success of the three movies then kick off another set adapting Turtles in space.

Hellfire, even bring in Krang and the Technodrome as a rogue Oot wanting to cleanse the galaxy of anything Triceraton, including Earth for one time being home to ceratopsians or something.

Viacom could hire a group of us for pennies on the dollar and togethere we'd pound out a better TMNT movie than PD and their group of somehow-successful hacks.
I rather they look at the IDW comic, That is the TMNT of today, and it did a good job at getting all the elements from the previous versions right.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:46 PM   #90
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By that logic then what do replacing Bebop/Rocksteady with other mutants serve?
At best? You get better characters than Bebop and Rocksteady. If nothing else? Visual variety.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:50 PM   #91
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I wouldn't mind if they did a live action movie based on the Nicktoon. But a live action movie based on IDW would be awesome. I just like to see it with a serious/dark tone to the story.

The Nicktoon is more darker/serious than the 2016 movie.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:51 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The reason the first movie performed moderately well was because it was the first live action TMNT movie in 20 years, so we were curious to see a $100MM Turtle movie.

After seeing how craptastic is was, it's no surprise the second movie flopped. I only went to see the spectacle of Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang/the Technodrome on screen for the first time. The movie itself was trite.

What needs to happen in a complete reboot of the TMNT movie franchise, and hire a writer who at least knows that Mirage came first and watched Steve Barron's movie.

Hell, I'd be fine if Ciro wrote a movie.

Hollywood wants to see a successful TMNT movie?

Give it a $50-$75MM, scale back the nonsense, and adapt the first 3 issues and Raph micro as a trilogy. Kill Saki, let Baxter have his go, end it all with the Turtles in the transmat, and depending on the success of the three movies then kick off another set adapting Turtles in space.

Hellfire, even bring in Krang and the Technodrome as a rogue Oot wanting to cleanse the galaxy of anything Triceraton, including Earth for one time being home to ceratopsians or something.

Viacom could hire a group of us for pennies on the dollar and togethere we'd pound out a better TMNT movie than PD and their group of somehow-successful hacks.
I agree with all of this, except...let's do City at War or Return to New York instead.
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Old 11-01-2016, 04:53 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
The reason the first movie performed moderately well was because it was the first live action TMNT movie in 20 years, so we were curious to see a $100MM Turtle movie.

After seeing how craptastic is was, it's no surprise the second movie flopped. I only went to see the spectacle of Bebop/Rocksteady/Krang/the Technodrome on screen for the first time. The movie itself was trite.

What needs to happen in a complete reboot of the TMNT movie franchise, and hire a writer who at least knows that Mirage came first and watched Steve Barron's movie.

Hell, I'd be fine if Ciro wrote a movie.

Hollywood wants to see a successful TMNT movie?

Give it a $50-$75MM, scale back the nonsense, and adapt the first 3 issues and Raph micro as a trilogy. Kill Saki, let Baxter have his go, end it all with the Turtles in the transmat, and depending on the success of the three movies then kick off another set adapting Turtles in space.

Hellfire, even bring in Krang and the Technodrome as a rogue Oot wanting to cleanse the galaxy of anything Triceraton, including Earth for one time being home to ceratopsians or something.

Viacom could hire a group of us for pennies on the dollar and togethere we'd pound out a better TMNT movie than PD and their group of somehow-successful hacks.
Words of truth. Ah, soak them in...
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:20 PM   #94
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more darker
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:27 PM   #95
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It's like, how much more black could this be?
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:34 PM   #96
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It's like, how much more black could this be?
*slap*
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Old 11-01-2016, 05:39 PM   #97
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I don't know what that supposed to be but it ain't showing up on my computer.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:25 PM   #98
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It's like, how much more black could this be?
Wellll..... I suppose Vantablack is a possibility, if it can be applied to this media.
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Old 11-01-2016, 06:43 PM   #99
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Old 11-01-2016, 07:08 PM   #100
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Bebop and Rocksteady are quintessentially stupid, created for stupid lowbrow laughs and plus so Playmates could sell a rhino and warthog toy next to the Turtles. I don't mean stupid as in, "What dumb characters they are," I mean stupid is their whole schtick. That's what they trade on, and their "look." You know, just putzing around, occasionally mumbling about "da toitles" while they fall down and hurt themselves. Doing them "well," you'd have to stick with that. Making them into super serious, dangerous muscle killers or something... you CAN do that, but #1: That is emphatically NOT who they are or what they're about, you are now actively warping them to be something else and if you ARE going to do that, then... #2: Why use them at all? Just raw nostalgia for the toys or Fred Wolf cartoon? That's not an answer and that's not good enough, and by this point Fred Wolf has had more than enough "nods." Enough for a lifetime.
Well, you definitely won't care for my take on them... pretty much more of the same.
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