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Old 04-23-2017, 08:54 AM   #1
ZariusTwo
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Marvel's "Rebirth": Marvel Legacy

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http://www.cbr.com/marvel-legacy-new...nal-numbering/
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Old 04-23-2017, 10:11 AM   #2
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I'm glad we're finally getting rid of the SJW-bait characters.

Spidey is still gonna be f*cked. Slott's not going anywhere. Bendis is thankfully off GOTG tho.
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Old 04-28-2017, 12:07 AM   #3
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I'm glad we're finally getting rid of the SJW-bait characters.
That's not happening nor should it.

The "SJW" characters are among Marvel's best sellers right now. It always strikes me as completely ridiculous that people who see a problem with how Marvel is doing commercially think the way to fix this is to cancel books that are selling.

I don't know how many times I've seen people who are angry that Fantastic Four (a book which hadn't sold well in decades) doesn't have a book but Moon Girl (which sells well in trade) is on the shelves. Hey I'd love the FF to return and haven't even tried Moon Girl myself but it's such a stupid argument.

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Spidey is still gonna be f*cked. Slott's not going anywhere.
Amazing Spider-Man sells. Until that changes Marvel is going to want him to stick around regardless of the crazy free mason attitude fans have about the guy.
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Old 04-28-2017, 01:44 AM   #4
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Amazing Spider-Man sells. Until that changes Marvel is going to want him to stick around regardless of the crazy free mason attitude fans have about the guy.
Just as well I happen to be the son of a Freemason eh?

Also, you might want to read this


http://www.comicsbeat.com/titling-at...comics-anyway/

Do yourself a favor and read the web essay "Shut The F*ck Up Marvel" also

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1362725

The description from the website:

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"Shut The **** Up, Marvel" is a nearly 30k long essay, a spiritual sequel to The Problems With Comics, a deep dive into the true issues with Marvel's economics and business - and how an obsession with short term profit, the constant renumbering and relaunches and events, all compounded by a complete inability to understand basic marketing techniques or outside audiences, has absolutely destroyed the sales stability of many of their former best selling books, all as they condescend to those who criticize them on their stories, or on how they try to sell comics

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 04-28-2017 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:25 PM   #5
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Apparently most of the established writers are staying on their respective books during Legacy, so this isn't going to be that big a shake-up
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Old 05-24-2017, 11:57 AM   #6
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Interesting article here

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...s-woes/527127/
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Old 06-16-2017, 02:41 PM   #7
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https://www.newsarama.com/34964-marv...-avengers.html

1,000,000 BC Avengers?

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Old 06-16-2017, 02:45 PM   #8
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LOL:

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"Rather, itís the starting gun to a bevy of mysteries and secrets and revelations that will reverberate across the Marvel Universe in the weeks and months to come! No character, no franchise will be untouched by the game-changing events that play out across its pages."
They say this like it's supposed to be a selling point, when it just sounds like more retcons and needless story revamps.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:00 PM   #9
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you might want to read this


http://www.comicsbeat.com/titling-at...comics-anyway/

Do yourself a favor and read the web essay "Shut The F*ck Up Marvel" also

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1362725
You could make a case that both those essays sum up peoples frustrations with the current comic book business in general but none really offer any convincing solutions.

Sure, the All-New, All-Different era wasn't exactly a huge blockbuster success and sales where down compared to what they were three years ago and yet for most of that era no one seemed to care or make a big deal about it seemingly brushing it off as the normal ebbs and flows of comic book publishing until Rebirth happened and like every time DC overtakes Marvel in sales people run around claiming the sky is falling and that Marvel is done but this time it also had a nasty undercurrent of disgruntled fans salivating over the prospect of getting rid of the "diversity" characters in order to compete with DC.

Of course DC was only #1 publisher for a handful of months before Marvel regained the top spot. If people think Marvel is flopping and their sales are plummeting that's fair enough (I'd disagree) but the idea that a long term fix is to emulate a company which is currently selling less than them seems foolish.

Obviously Marvel is going to try their own version of Rebirth because enhanced sales for a few months is still appealing but frankly Marvel already had tried their own Rebirth years ago with the Heroic Age which tried to do a lot of what DC is currently trying to do and the results were largely underwhelming as was laying off big events during that period.

As much as they've become a bane of comic book fans (at least if the internet is to be believed) events sell and have been doing for the past few decades, even Civil War II which was decidedly meh sold well for Marvel. I can't really fault Marvel for doing what sells.

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LOL:



They say this like it's supposed to be a selling point, when it just sounds like more retcons and needless story revamps.
You'd think so but from what I've been seeing the reaction to the latest Legacy announcements including the variant covers is anger that they don't seem to indicate any big mind blowing status quo shift.

I have little doubt there will be one but I doubt Marvel is going to give it away. As you might guess I'm rather unipressed with Rebirth but the least compelling aspect is the whole Watchmen connection. If Legacy doesn't have anything like that and it's simply bringing back a the likes of Steve Rogers and Odinson to their classic roles would it really be such a bad thing?

Last edited by Galactus; 06-23-2017 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 06-23-2017, 09:47 PM   #10
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1,000,000 BC Avengers?


Could be cool
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"Wait... what?"
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:17 AM   #11
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Of course DC was only #1 publisher for a handful of months before Marvel regained the top spot. If people think Marvel is flopping and their sales are plummeting that's fair enough (I'd disagree) but the idea that a long term fix is to emulate a company which is currently selling less than them seems foolish.
Marvel allegedly ''regained their ground'' mainly through an over-abundance of gimmick covers and ''bumper'' issues. To deny that they've been gaming the system is just as foolish.

The estimates on sales are also as subjective as comic quality. Just the last week there were conflicting reports on what did better last month...DC's ''The Button'' or Marvel's Secret Empire.

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Obviously Marvel is going to try their own version of Rebirth because enhanced sales for a few months is still appealing but frankly Marvel already had tried their own Rebirth years ago with the Heroic Age which tried to do a lot of what DC is currently trying to do and the results were largely underwhelming as was laying off big events during that period.
That's because the writing was crap and we weren't getting what we wanted. DC is giving us what we want for the most part.

I don't collect every DC title, some either don't appeal to me or they started off giving me what I wanted but eventually stopped, but the stories are still of a high calibure compared to Marvel's incessantly poor treatment of their characters as well as their political soapboxing that go way over younger reader's heads and raise the ire of people who just want good superhero stories.

There's a reason I prefer the objectively silly and contrived ASM newspaper strip over most of what Marvel produce these days. It's stupid in a fun way, it focuses on positive relationships between characters I'm fond of, and it has heroes acting like heroes and solving a very basic good vs evil problem

Last edited by ZariusTwo; 06-24-2017 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:00 AM   #12
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The estimates on sales are also as subjective as comic quality. Just the last week there were conflicting reports on what did better last month...DC's ''The Button'' or Marvel's Secret Empire
This is true. I remember years ago a TMNT book sold abnormally high (or maybe it was low, can't recall). I wrote to Bobby Curnow to ask if anyone at IDW was likewise perplexed, but he said it had really only sold about the usual number of copies.
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:38 PM   #13
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ANOTHER emergency retailer conference.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/06...egacy-concern/
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Old 06-27-2017, 07:16 PM   #14
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Marvel allegedly ''regained their ground'' mainly through an over-abundance of gimmick covers and ''bumper'' issues. To deny that they've been gaming the system is just as foolish.

The estimates on sales are also as subjective as comic quality. Just the last week there were conflicting reports on what did better last month...DC's ''The Button'' or Marvel's Secret Empire.
Both companies game the system, to deny that is foolish. It's strange that people only focus on one company doing at a time to justify the axe they have to grind with it.

It should go without saying but I'm not arguing that sales equal quality but for the record on that issue I quite liked the All-New, All Different era, I'm not saying it was the best era of Marvel by a long shot but there was enough there that I liked. The fact they were selling well but not as much as the Marvel Now era actually sounds about right to me. I've said it before but I remain unimpressed with Rebirth. I know I'm in a minority with that but then again since their sales have dipped from their launch high then maybe I'm not as alone in that as I think

As for the sales themselves at this point people can spin them whichever way they want. I've heard it argued reasonably well that the two majors are about even. Whichever way you look at it though whether Marvel is on top or the two companies are neck and neck the idea that idea that something is drastically wrong with one of them and the only thing that can fix it is to copy the other is foolish.

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That's because the writing was crap and we weren't getting what we wanted. DC is giving us what we want for the most part.

I don't collect every DC title, some either don't appeal to me or they started off giving me what I wanted but eventually stopped, but the stories are still of a high calibure compared to Marvel's incessantly poor treatment of their characters as well as their political soapboxing that go way over younger reader's heads and raise the ire of people who just want good superhero stories.
Fans read far too much into some of their decisions and likewise the idea that the best way to fix Marvel is cancelling books like Mighty Thor, Ms Marvel or Spider-Man (Miles Morales) which sell well because people online think it's part of some politically correct agenda is silly. The Only agenda Marvel has is making money.

I also find that the argument that classic heroes are poorly treated to be overstated. Secret Empire is looking to be a good story and Steve Rogers will be normal again after it's all over as will Odinson and Tony Stark after it serves the story to have them back.

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There's a reason I prefer the objectively silly and contrived ASM newspaper strip over most of what Marvel produce these days. It's stupid in a fun way, it focuses on positive relationships between characters I'm fond of, and it has heroes acting like heroes and solving a very basic good vs evil problem
I've heard you argue this before and I find it odd. One of the criticisms I did have with the All-New, All-Different era was that the majority of it seemed to have a light, fun tone even in characters and franchises that are more used to a more serious or darker tone. It could have a used a more varied tone. Heck even after Civil War II the characters went back to normal you'd hardly think there was any divide between the heroes.

Quote:
ANOTHER emergency retailer conference.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/06...egacy-concern/
Now this does concern me.

I've long said that the best approach for Marvel would be to stay the creative course. The classic heroes would have returned to their definitive roles in their own time anyway. I don't think Marvel really needed their own Rebirth for that. Even commercially they aren't in the poor position DC was with DCYou that they need it but of course they are going to do a Rebirth to get a sales boost and help ease tensions in a particular market they aren't doing as well in. However given the comments from retailers at the last summit I'm not sure I'm comfortable pandering to them.

Last edited by Galactus; 06-28-2017 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 06-30-2017, 01:33 PM   #15
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Old 07-06-2017, 01:42 PM   #16
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Marvel Legacy rumour round up

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07...e-marvel-2018/

The major creative changes may come following some of the titles reaching their anniversary numbers

- Ta-Nehisi Coates may take over Captain America from #700 or #701.

-Dan Slott will write up to Amazing Spider-Man #800 and then step aside to make way for Nick Spencer

-Jason Aaron and Esad Ribic will take over Avengers in the spring, as they are preparing a long-term build to their run. There will be a major Avengers event later in the year involving Thanos, though it is not specified if he will be an antagonist.

-Chip Zdarsky may write Marvel Two-In-One
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